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Legendary Pirate Plasma

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:05 pm


Fresh Porn
Hakuro de Killer
Terror of the Dead
The Gadgets attribute to hand advantage.


...at the cost of Deck size and LP advantage. Hence, my point.

crayons say bigger hand, more fortress chucking more oompha loompha to their lp. Hurp Derp


I'll say this. I've had absolutely no problems with summoning Fortress in a Machina deck that didn't run Gadgets.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:19 pm


Hakuro de Killer
I can't say I know too too much about how Machina works, but I figured it like this.
Then really, why attempt the fix with limited knowledge, and apply yours which is certainly flawed? Then, why try and counter when I do have knowledge?

Hakuro de Killer
I think Solidarity is useful in a deck dominated by monsters of the same type.
Solidarity isn't useful in any deck. Why? It doesn't generate any advantage upon use in the duel. You can buff your monsters if you like, but it just makes Bottomless Trap Hole hit more, and leaves everything else still susceptible to every monster removal there is. The idea is to remove their monsters or their removal, before theirs is played. It's the way to play this format, and your ideas won't help the OP step up for one such tournament.

Hakuro de Killer
I never once saw the appeal of Gadgets. They're weak, borderline-vanilla monsters and I hardly see the point of 'em in any sort of a deck, especially one that doesn't have Ultimate Offering.
Doesn't matter if their weak, in fact it's why they're great. Gadgets were THE deck to play around legal Crush Card Virus, and when Bottomless Trap Hole was originally released. The idea is simple, to slim the deck and keep Machines in hand for Fortress at the same time. It's solid.

Hakuro de Killer
Hyper Synchron was there because it's the only Machine-Type tuner worth more than a grain of salt in a deck with non-DARK Machines.
Tuners aren't needed whatsoever in the deck, and no other monsters you've provided prove to be a suitable monster combination with it. Machina Gearframe acts as equip after search, Peacekeeper acts as equip until search, Machina Fortress, Jinzo, and Cyber Dragon aren't an appropriate level to sync with, Cyber Valley exists to remove and draw. Leaving Scrap Recycler as the only monster intended to remain during or before its job, to get you a Lv.7, which is nothing but Ancient Fairy Dragon, Power Tool Dragon, and Black Rose Dragon. All far from desirable.

Hakuro de Killer
Cyber Valley is a generally useful card. Has plenty of opportunity for stall and can be used as a discard for Machina Fortress from the hand no problem.
"Generally" useful, which you've decided not on how effectively the deck can provide the field to remove and draw 2 for the effect, but really just because it's a Machine-type monster and somehow fits. Its one real, consistent use in the deck is to remain, remove, and draw one, which isn't going to work anymore.

Hakuro de Killer
As for Peacemaker... the point of it is to summon it and equip it to another machine-type immediately after to prevent its destruction.
Machina Gearframe can serve the same purpose, at a much faster pace. Machina Peacekeeper's one use is to search a Machina Gearframe, and then becomes obsolete. One copy is enough.

Hakuro de Killer
I left Scrap Recycler at 2 because I was aloof at what it actually did.
It's too limited to what the deck doesn't need to do.

Hakuro de Killer
...and if there was an actual machine or machina specific card that negated spell/traps, I'd agree with you about Bribe. As it is, there isn't. You're worrying way too much about a single draw effect for the opponent.
You seem to not concern yourself of how the card is simply giving them a free, second chance. You don't think enough on the negative end of the card, nor have the experience of how effective it really is. Letting the opponent go through the deck in even the smallest manner is replenishing their advantage over your own, giving them the game.

Hakuro de Killer
I left Magic Cylinder in because it's the only card that you actually have to PREPARE for in any deck. Torrential Tribute can be stopped with Stardust and D-Prison can be stopped by any card that negates cards that target.
Magic Cylinder targets too? It's no more threatening, as they get to KEEP the monster on the field. The one time it would be useful is for game push, which Magic Cylinder is simply too slow to do.

Hakuro de Killer
...and I will say... Royal Oppression should not be maindecked in Machinas, especially seeing as cards like Cyber Dragon and Machina Fortress would never be able to legitimately hit play.
Only when you don't know how to play around it, and it seems people don't understand that you don't have to play a card when there is an alternative option to better yourself. Obviously, I'll be playing the Royal Oppression when my field is already set.

Hakuro de Killer
...at the cost of Deck size and LP advantage. Hence, my point.
One, deck thinning is hardly a cost. Deck thinning adds whatever advantage the deck may give to your field and to your hand, which you can actually use to control the game to your favor.

Do you know why people play Gorz the Emissary of Darkness? Because as you say, "at the cost of Life Points", you get a wall for physically nothing. Life Points do determine the game, but when the damage doesn't make you lose the game, advantage is gained to turn it. Many times on this level, it can and is done that you will drop down to 1500 or 800 Life Points, and win because you've obtained the field.

You don't know anything about how the meta is played. When someone looks to combat it, I suggest you remain out of it.

Francine These Chocodiles


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:29 am


Freed the Benevolent
Hakuro de Killer
I can't say I know too too much about how Machina works, but I figured it like this.
Then really, why attempt the fix with limited knowledge, and apply yours which is certainly flawed? Then, why try and counter when I do have knowledge?

Hakuro de Killer
I think Solidarity is useful in a deck dominated by monsters of the same type.
Solidarity isn't useful in any deck. Why? It doesn't generate any advantage upon use in the duel. You can buff your monsters if you like, but it just makes Bottomless Trap Hole hit more, and leaves everything else still susceptible to every monster removal there is. The idea is to remove their monsters or their removal, before theirs is played. It's the way to play this format, and your ideas won't help the OP step up for one such tournament.

Hakuro de Killer
I never once saw the appeal of Gadgets. They're weak, borderline-vanilla monsters and I hardly see the point of 'em in any sort of a deck, especially one that doesn't have Ultimate Offering.
Doesn't matter if their weak, in fact it's why they're great. Gadgets were THE deck to play around legal Crush Card Virus, and when Bottomless Trap Hole was originally released. The idea is simple, to slim the deck and keep Machines in hand for Fortress at the same time. It's solid.

Hakuro de Killer
Hyper Synchron was there because it's the only Machine-Type tuner worth more than a grain of salt in a deck with non-DARK Machines.
Tuners aren't needed whatsoever in the deck, and no other monsters you've provided prove to be a suitable monster combination with it. Machina Gearframe acts as equip after search, Peacekeeper acts as equip until search, Machina Fortress, Jinzo, and Cyber Dragon aren't an appropriate level to sync with, Cyber Valley exists to remove and draw. Leaving Scrap Recycler as the only monster intended to remain during or before its job, to get you a Lv.7, which is nothing but Ancient Fairy Dragon, Power Tool Dragon, and Black Rose Dragon. All far from desirable.

Hakuro de Killer
Cyber Valley is a generally useful card. Has plenty of opportunity for stall and can be used as a discard for Machina Fortress from the hand no problem.
"Generally" useful, which you've decided not on how effectively the deck can provide the field to remove and draw 2 for the effect, but really just because it's a Machine-type monster and somehow fits. Its one real, consistent use in the deck is to remain, remove, and draw one, which isn't going to work anymore.

Hakuro de Killer
As for Peacemaker... the point of it is to summon it and equip it to another machine-type immediately after to prevent its destruction.
Machina Gearframe can serve the same purpose, at a much faster pace. Machina Peacekeeper's one use is to search a Machina Gearframe, and then becomes obsolete. One copy is enough.

Hakuro de Killer
I left Scrap Recycler at 2 because I was aloof at what it actually did.
It's too limited to what the deck doesn't need to do.

Hakuro de Killer
...and if there was an actual machine or machina specific card that negated spell/traps, I'd agree with you about Bribe. As it is, there isn't. You're worrying way too much about a single draw effect for the opponent.
You seem to not concern yourself of how the card is simply giving them a free, second chance. You don't think enough on the negative end of the card, nor have the experience of how effective it really is. Letting the opponent go through the deck in even the smallest manner is replenishing their advantage over your own, giving them the game.

Hakuro de Killer
I left Magic Cylinder in because it's the only card that you actually have to PREPARE for in any deck. Torrential Tribute can be stopped with Stardust and D-Prison can be stopped by any card that negates cards that target.
Magic Cylinder targets too? It's no more threatening, as they get to KEEP the monster on the field. The one time it would be useful is for game push, which Magic Cylinder is simply too slow to do.

Hakuro de Killer
...and I will say... Royal Oppression should not be maindecked in Machinas, especially seeing as cards like Cyber Dragon and Machina Fortress would never be able to legitimately hit play.
Only when you don't know how to play around it, and it seems people don't understand that you don't have to play a card when there is an alternative option to better yourself. Obviously, I'll be playing the Royal Oppression when my field is already set.

Hakuro de Killer
...at the cost of Deck size and LP advantage. Hence, my point.
One, deck thinning is hardly a cost. Deck thinning adds whatever advantage the deck may give to your field and to your hand, which you can actually use to control the game to your favor.

Do you know why people play Gorz the Emissary of Darkness? Because as you say, "at the cost of Life Points", you get a wall for physically nothing. Life Points do determine the game, but when the damage doesn't make you lose the game, advantage is gained to turn it. Many times on this level, it can and is done that you will drop down to 1500 or 800 Life Points, and win because you've obtained the field.

You don't know anything about how the meta is played. When someone looks to combat it, I suggest you remain out of it.


You know... every time someone makes a post like this, their p***s gets a little shorter.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:49 am


If there's going to be a discussion, I would expect to put every statement into account. If you're not going to read and give a legitimate response, then why are you here?

Francine These Chocodiles



oucyan


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:57 am


I have to agree with freed on this one. not only did he provide a solid arguement, he refrained from any major insults. also, solidarity doesn't help anything, it's like equip cards, most of them are dead weight in a deck.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:58 am


Freed the Benevolent
If there's going to be a discussion, I would expect to put every statement into account. If you're not going to read and give a legitimate response, then why are you here?


I don't know about you, but I was here to give advice on a deck. Yeah, I can respectfully disagree with something, but I never attacked your advice as directly as you did mine. Why bother feeding the fire, especially if you're gonna say stuff like "You don't know anything about how the meta is played. When someone looks to combat it, I suggest you remain out of it."

I'm not looking for a debate on what's right and what's wrong. I said what I thought was right in my own experience and left it at that. If you're gonna openly challenge me to a debate, howsabouts we move it elsewhere?

Legendary Pirate Plasma

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Francine These Chocodiles

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:26 am


Because this is the subject of it. Because when we're going to debate over a deck and how it's played, then perhaps it should remain where the deck is?

Works as an educational piece for the rest, so I would hope.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:34 am


Freed the Benevolent
Because this is the subject of it. Because when we're going to debate over a deck and how it's played, then perhaps it should remain where the deck is?

Works as an educational piece for the rest, so I would hope.


On Gaia Online of all places? The place where over half its populace is all "lololol tl;dr"? Surely, you jest.

But really... I was giving advice. You gave different advice. Not really yours or my place to say which is right because it's purely upon matter of opinion. I always run 3 Dark Bribes because they give me a sense of security when I run up against a game-changing Brain Control or Lightning Vortex when I have no alternative means to stop it.

For people who feel they can deal with a potentially game-changing spell/trap such as that without the need for negation, that's fine. I like to know my strategy's gonna succeed, even if I have to give my opponent an extra draw to do it.

Legendary Pirate Plasma

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Francine These Chocodiles

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:03 am


Understandable, if your advice is simply different. Is what I said a little far, sure. I can understand the opinion, especially with Brain Control, because the card needs a ban.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:12 pm


Lets redirect the topic to the deck plz

American Underdog

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