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Fushigi na Butterfly

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:37 pm
DustNymph
Warning: Non-Christian Perspective Below

For me, injunctions against Harry Potter and the like because they featured witchcraft always seemed a little silly. The books and movie are complete fantasy. If a person were looking to learn REAL witchcraft and wizardry, they'd have to go elsewhere.

In order to respond properly, I'm trying to think about the Christian motivation for prohibiting witchcraft. It seems to me that an important goal for Christians is to live one's life for God and trying to live up to the example of Jesus Christ. If you want help with something beyond your earthly powers to attain, you can ask of God. Essentially, you are putting forth your request and leaving it up to God's wisdom whether or not it should be granted.

Conversely, magic could be viewed as taking things into one's own hands. Rather than asking God for fair weather on your wedding day, you try to cast a spell to affect the weather on your own. But what if there really needs to be rain for the welfare of the local plants and animals? In this light, one could think of God as one who views human requests and decides whether or not they fit in with His plan.

In this regard, witchcraft could be viewed as treading on God's toes.

With that said, I think it should be stated that when many teens believe they are committing the sin of witchcraft, they are actually committing the sin of vanity. It's a basic human psychological need to feel significant. In search of this, some young people turn to delusions of being able to control wind, hear ghosts, or curse their enemies. Now, I'm of the mind that it is actually possible to do these things to some degree, but not without a whole lot of work and maybe some innate talent.

One interesting phrase I've come across in the neopagan community is "Mr. Dark." A Mr. Dark is an elaborate delusion that a person constructs, setting themself up as some powerful, misunderstood, "dark" figure who is often tasked with battling some great force or calamity. This seriously warped view of reality is more common than one might think. Usually the afflicted person grows out of this, but not always.

Think of the Mr. Dark as an example of egocentricity taken to the extreme. Something like this would definitely be considered a sin. I wouldn't name the sin as witchcraft, since the person in question probably couldn't magic themselves out of a wet paper bag. However, they are definitely committing the sin of vanity by putting themself on a pedestal and forsaking humility and reason.


When we had a discussion on magic (or it may have been somewhere else, I can't remember), I said essentially the same thing. I believe magic (or magick) exists, and I believe there are people with the ability to use it. However, I don't believe it is anything God condones. Like you said, magic is taking things into our own hands, it is manipulating energy and forces normally outside of our control and using them to do our will, when everything in this universe was created to do God's will. To assume that it is okay to use magic, even if for a seemingly altruistic purpose, is to assume that we are better than God.  
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:17 pm
Xandris
Galad Damodred
God is everything. To say that God is one thing and not another is to say that God is finite and limited, which is a blasphemy. Therefore, it stands to reason that God is - everything. You are God, I am God, the sky and trees and stone and seas are all God...

Hahaha, I never thought I'd see the day when I philosophically backed such a theistic idea.

Very Druidic philosophy. mrgreen

Yes, I rather thought so. God is the source and the embodiment of every experience, being, object and phenomenon, from the dancing of electrons to art and music to exploding supernovae.  

Galad Aglaron


Priestley

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:37 am
Galad Damodred
To say that God is one thing and not another is to say that God is finite and limited,...

To say that God is one thing and not another is to differentiate God's person from that of other persons. It is not to place limits on God.  
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:42 am
Galad Damodred
Xandris
Galad Damodred
God is everything. To say that God is one thing and not another is to say that God is finite and limited, which is a blasphemy. Therefore, it stands to reason that God is - everything. You are God, I am God, the sky and trees and stone and seas are all God...

Hahaha, I never thought I'd see the day when I philosophically backed such a theistic idea.

Very Druidic philosophy. mrgreen

Yes, I rather thought so. God is the source and the embodiment of every experience, being, object and phenomenon, from the dancing of electrons to art and music to exploding supernovae.

Except to worship these things is idolatry. wink  

Priestley


Xandris

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:25 am
DustNymph
Conversely, magic could be viewed as taking things into one's own hands.

Although... conversely to that... what if magic (different than witchcraft) is a gift from God, and NOT using it is wasting one of the things he gave you? *ponders*  
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:32 am
Xandris
DustNymph
Conversely, magic could be viewed as taking things into one's own hands.

Although... conversely to that... what if magic (different than witchcraft) is a gift from God, and NOT using it is wasting one of the things he gave you? *ponders*

The same could be argued for the ability to reproduce.  

Priestley


Ixor Firebadger

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:37 pm
Xandris
DustNymph
Conversely, magic could be viewed as taking things into one's own hands.

Although... conversely to that... what if magic (different than witchcraft) is a gift from God, and NOT using it is wasting one of the things he gave you? *ponders*
What other kind of 'magic' are you thinking of? See, now you're sounding like someone who should lay off the Harry Potter razz wink  
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:43 pm
Priestley
The same could be argued for the ability to reproduce.

Using a gift and using it RESPONSIBLY are also two different things. xp

Ixor-san
What other kind of 'magic' are you thinking of? See, now you're sounding like someone who should lay off the Harry Potter razz wink

razz heart
Witchcraft being the casting of spells and the mumbling over herbs and such, trying to force your will over things that you shouldn't be. But what about the mind-body-energy connection that, for lack of a better word, is usually labeled magic?

And I think that THIS is the thread that Fushigi and I were both referencing earlier.  

Xandris


Ixor Firebadger

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:08 pm
Xandris
Priestley
The same could be argued for the ability to reproduce.

Using a gift and using it RESPONSIBLY are also two different things. xp

Ixor-san
What other kind of 'magic' are you thinking of? See, now you're sounding like someone who should lay off the Harry Potter razz wink

razz heart
Witchcraft being the casting of spells and the mumbling over herbs and such, trying to force your will over things that you shouldn't be. But what about the mind-body-energy connection that, for lack of a better word, is usually labeled magic?

And I think that THIS is the thread that Fushigi and I were both referencing earlier.
Hm. You mean like Ki? That's not magic, really.

I guess I would consider that a bit different, though. But I really enjoy martial arts and am kind of into all that. Ki healing was part pf the curriculum for the art I wanted to take. As was bone setting
xd  
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:55 pm
Xandris
Priestley
The same could be argued for the ability to reproduce.

Using a gift and using it RESPONSIBLY are also two different things. xp

My point was that reproduction is a gift from Yahweh much like any natural ability and not using it would be "wasting one of the abilities He gave you", much like any supernatural ability. Yahweh who said not to use the occult is the same Yahweh who commanded to be fruitful and multiply, and yet people use magicks or choose to become/remain abstinent.  

Priestley


Galad Aglaron

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:00 pm
Priestley
Galad Damodred
Xandris
Galad Damodred
God is everything. To say that God is one thing and not another is to say that God is finite and limited, which is a blasphemy. Therefore, it stands to reason that God is - everything. You are God, I am God, the sky and trees and stone and seas are all God...

Hahaha, I never thought I'd see the day when I philosophically backed such a theistic idea.

Very Druidic philosophy. mrgreen

Yes, I rather thought so. God is the source and the embodiment of every experience, being, object and phenomenon, from the dancing of electrons to art and music to exploding supernovae.

Except to worship these things is idolatry. wink

Well, look at it this way: admiring the elegant geometries of a beetle's carapace, delighting in the heights of human creativity and marveling at the complexity of the human body are just different people's ways of finding the presence of God in their lives.

I sound like a Christian... rofl  
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:39 pm
Galad Damodred
Priestley
Galad Damodred
Xandris
Galad Damodred
God is everything. To say that God is one thing and not another is to say that God is finite and limited, which is a blasphemy. Therefore, it stands to reason that God is - everything. You are God, I am God, the sky and trees and stone and seas are all God...

Hahaha, I never thought I'd see the day when I philosophically backed such a theistic idea.

Very Druidic philosophy. mrgreen

Yes, I rather thought so. God is the source and the embodiment of every experience, being, object and phenomenon, from the dancing of electrons to art and music to exploding supernovae.

Except to worship these things is idolatry. wink

Well, look at it this way: admiring the elegant geometries of a beetle's carapace, delighting in the heights of human creativity and marveling at the complexity of the human body are just different people's ways of finding the presence of God in their lives.

I sound like a Christian... rofl

Sure, but they're not worshipping these things.  

Priestley

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