What is the purpose of forgiveness?

[Priestley]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Priestley

But does God actually forget? Doesn't forgetting do away with the need for Jesus' sacrifice, which was to pay the debt of sin?

This is where philosophy picks up, and I'm going to try to explain this as best as I can, because when I had this explained to me, it was a bit confusing.

God is omniscient. He knows everything. He sees everything. He can't unknow something, because that would go against His omniscience; likewise, He can't actually "forget". It's similar to all the times in the Bible where it's mentioned "and then God remembered His servant so-and-so, and blessed/delivered him/them." It wasn't as if God had actually gotten sidetracked with some other nation He was smiting in righteous anger- it was just that He was returning His full gaze and attention to that person/group of people, in order to bring to fruition His promises. In the same context, God doesn't actually "unknow" or "forget" our sin; He just turns away from it, choosing not to pay attention to it. He still knows that we have sinned, He knows how we have wronged Him, but because of Jesus, He promises to us that it will be as if we've never sinned. When we are truly contrite, God says to us, "okay, I forgive you; let's let this be water under the bridge- go and sin no more." Humans, as social beings, have this need to always have a balance between themselves and those they have relationships with. Our attempting not to sin, and the guilt we have over past sins (guilt, not shame- guilt that reminds us that we have sinned and reminds us that we don't want to sin any longer, as opposed to shame, which weighs us down, and makes us afraid to approach God to be cleansed of our sins) is our way of trying to pay God back for His forgiveness. "He has given me this great opportunity, allowing me into His Kingdom, and I don't want to take advantage of that."

Does that make more sense?

But you said earlier that he does forget. xd

I already said that forgiving doesn't mean forgetting. Unless a person has a selective memory, the whole event -- the sin, the remorse, the forgiveness -- is remembered by all parties involved, including God. It just so happens that Jesus is the advocate for us at Judgement and we fall under his protection.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

What I meant is that He acts as if He's forgotten. For some reason, that's the word that the human authors of the Bible chose to use to describe how God behaves as a result of our redemption through Jesus. He may as well have "forgotten" since He certainly isn't holding us accountable.

And you're right, you can't just make yourself forget things. I agreed with you there. But you act as if you've forgotten, instead of constantly holding a grudge and bringing it up. That's the difference. Forgetting in this case has nothing to do with actual memory.  

[Priestley]

Fushigi na Butterfly

What I meant is that He acts as if He's forgotten. For some reason, that's the word that the human authors of the Bible chose to use to describe how God behaves as a result of our redemption through Jesus. He may as well have "forgotten" since He certainly isn't holding us accountable.

As I said, forgiving doesn't mean forgetting. God would be a poor record keeper if He happened to lose or destroy the record of our life's deeds and neglectful if He skipped the details. Jesus' sacrifice is payment for our sins, not his. God will hold us to account but the account has been paid: Jesus is our advocate, our defense and our bailer at the Judgment. We will owe nothing.

Fushigi na Butterfly

And you're right, you can't just make yourself forget things. I agreed with you there. But you act as if you've forgotten, instead of constantly holding a grudge and bringing it up. That's the difference. Forgetting in this case has nothing to do with actual memory.

It is impossible to make peace if an issue has not been resolved. Resolution requires settlement between two parties. If one party still has an issue or a grudge or whatever, the issue hasn't been resolved and it's hardly loving to have left the situation that way. Jesus says that problems with one's brother must be resolved before one takes one's offering to the temple. It is an extension of the principle that every effort should be made to be at peace with people, that God says "Well, what are you doing here with me when you could be making it up with so-and-so?". Jesus blesses the peacemakers in the beatitudes. Paul says not to let the sun go down while you are still angry, right after saying that one should speak truthfully to one's neighbour because we're all part of one body. That stresses again how important making peace is: that it even comes before sleep, which is vital to the body.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

And yet, there is still the veiled wisdom of sleeping off your anger. Sometimes it really just DOESN'T pay to resolve things until you're less stressed about them. All that does is cause MORE argument, and usually ends in screaming things that you don't really mean.  

[Priestley]

I'm sure you've experienced how difficult it is to sleep when angry, worried or any other emotion that makes one feel bad.

Oftentimes, things are said during an argument that aren't really meant.Most reponses convey some kind of emotion and/or the first thing that comes into one's head. There isn't much time to think between each response. A separation that gives some time apart to think may be necessary. It needn't be sleep.  

[Break Sage]

John 3:16 is why.  

[Priestley]

Break Sage

John 3:16 is why.

How does this passage apply? How does it answer the question I asked? Please, elaborate.  

[freelance lover]

I haven't replied to this thread yet because when I read it I kind of went, "Wow, I have no IDEA."

I suppose what I've come to realize is that forgiveness is key in healthy relationship. Christianity (as far as I'm concerned) is a relationship. And, as in any relationship, forgiveness comes out of one party doing wrong to the other. The first party realizes they've hurt or betrayed the trust of the second party, and explains to them they regret causing them pain. The second party has to acknowledge the apology and tell them that they won't hold it against them and that they are no longer angry with them.

In almost any relationship, you need forgiveness or you get caught up on bad things and become bitter, which eventually ends up hurting the relationship. On the other hand, the one apologizing needs to accept the forgiveness or else their guilt will be hanging over the relationship.

We need to apoligize to God when we do him wrong because we're in a relationship with him. Fortunetly, he always will forgive us- accepting it is often times the hard part. If we feel guilty we can't have a relationship with him that is healthy, loving, and open.

Basically, we need forgiveness because without it, we cannot have a healthy and benifical relationship with God.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Oh wow, that's a really good point too. eek  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

freelance lover

Basically, we need forgiveness because without it, we cannot have a healthy and benifical relationship with God.

How is it that you guys reach right into my head and pluck out what I want to say and say it so much more eloquently than I can? It used to be only Fushigi could do that. stare

Kudos to that whole post. xd  

[freelance lover]

For all the talking and rambling I do, it's about time I got something right blaugh  

[fromthatshow]

Forgiveness is only necessary as long as sin is still real.
In God's ultimate reality, there is no sin. And God's reality is all there is. There is, in truth, no such thing as sin.
But here, it certainly seems that sin is real, so forgiveness is necessary.
Forgiveness of all others for their sins and forgiveness of your Self.

Sin just means separate from God (love).
We must forgive all others for body identification instead of spirit identification and forgive ourselves.
True forgiveness asks nothing in return, heals you, and heals the world.

heart  

[Priestley]

fromthatshow

Forgiveness is only necessary as long as sin is still real.
In God's ultimate reality, there is no sin. And God's reality is all there is. There is, in truth, no such thing as sin.
But here, it certainly seems that sin is real, so forgiveness is necessary.
Forgiveness of all others for their sins and forgiveness of your Self.

Sin just means separate from God (love).
We must forgive all others for body identification instead of spirit identification and forgive ourselves.
True forgiveness asks nothing in return, heals you, and heals the world.

heart

To forgive sins, one must acknowledge that there is sin that needs forgiving. The absence of sin does away with the need for forgiveness and, therefore, forgiveness itself.

Sin is basically not doing as one is told.