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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:39 pm
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TeaDidikai mute_coyote So, I wasn't ever really planning/expecting anything to happen with the whole Mormon thing. I mean, I think the missionaries are a bit pushy, and the church requires a lot of time commitment. But, that whole "burning in the bosom" thing? Well, I think I got that. Huh... Test it. wink Same thing I would say about any divine revelation really. If it turns out to be verified- check to see how much of the doctrine of the church matches up with the way the Holy Spirit moves you. Any suggestions on how I'd go about testing it? What comes to mind for me is simply more reading/praying. The only other option offered by the missionaries thus far has been baptism, and I'd kind of like an intermediate step before I go jumping into the pool.
The tricky bit is that I do have some issues with the doctrine. For example, there is definitely a heterocentric vibe going on there, which I kinda take issue with.
My missionaries told me that they want an answer regarding my potential Oct. 25th baptism by Friday. I'm prolly going to say I need more time. Don't want to go making covenants with Yahweh until I'm sure.
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:33 pm
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mute_coyote Any suggestions on how I'd go about testing it? What conditions did you experience it to begin with?
Quote: I'd kind of like an intermediate step before I go jumping into the pool. I don't think you're allowed to jump. I think you have to walk into it via steps.
Quote: The tricky bit is that I do have some issues with the doctrine. For example, there is definitely a heterocentric vibe going on there, which I kinda take issue with. Might ask for confirmation or rejection on that in your prayers as well.
Quote: My missionaries told me that they want an answer regarding my potential Oct. 25th baptism by Friday. I'm prolly going to say I need more time. Don't want to go making covenants with Yahweh until I'm sure. "I need more time" is an answer.
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:22 am
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:58 am
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TeaDidikai mute_coyote Any suggestions on how I'd go about testing it? What conditions did you experience it to begin with? When hearing the missionaries read the scriptures and when singing in the choir. Oddly, I didn't get any such feelings when I watched General Conference. The fact that I was watching people via TV in that case rather than interacting directly strikes me as potentially significant.
Quote: Quote: I'd kind of like an intermediate step before I go jumping into the pool. I don't think you're allowed to jump. I think you have to walk into it via steps. Huh. I guess my brilliant idea for a cannonball baptism is out, then.
Quote: Quote: The tricky bit is that I do have some issues with the doctrine. For example, there is definitely a heterocentric vibe going on there, which I kinda take issue with. Might ask for confirmation or rejection on that in your prayers as well. I'll add it to my list of things to pray about. mrgreen
Quote: Quote: My missionaries told me that they want an answer regarding my potential Oct. 25th baptism by Friday. I'm prolly going to say I need more time. Don't want to go making covenants with Yahweh until I'm sure. "I need more time" is an answer. So my friends tell me. ^_^ It bothers me that the missionaries don't think it's a very good one. Meh. I know I shouldn't let that get to me.
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:43 am
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:28 am
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:18 pm
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mute_coyote When hearing the missionaries read the scriptures and when singing in the choir. Oddly, I didn't get any such feelings when I watched General Conference. The fact that I was watching people via TV in that case rather than interacting directly strikes me as potentially significant. Try placing yourself in a different hyper-religious situation and see if you resonate in the same way.
Ask within the LDS setting who is invoking the feeling and double check with them.
Place yourself in a solitary hyper-religious state and confirm who spoke to you before through questioning.
Ask about contradictions between different elements of ideology inside and outside of personal understandings.
Quote: Huh. I guess my brilliant idea for a cannonball baptism is out, then. They must have deeper pools where you are. sweatdrop
Quote: So my friends tell me. ^_^ It bothers me that the missionaries don't think it's a very good one. Meh. I know I shouldn't let that get to me. My usual response to that kind of thing is "Would you rather I profane your rite by doing it half heartedly without the sincere reverence and desire to know god?"
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:27 pm
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:36 pm
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:44 pm
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So, lots and lots of reflection later I've come to a few conclusions.
First of all, the feeling in my chest I was experiencing felt rather like a sense of gravity or weightiness, and may have stemmed from the intensity of the missionaries commitment that they expressed around me. It may also stem from a sense of expectation, like I know I'm expected to feel something and anticipation creates a sensation of its own. It hasn't been a consistent thing. When I went to a religious concert with the missionaries and some others from the church, I was told it should be a "testimony-building experience." Well, the singing was certainly impressive and enjoyable, but I didn't feel anything aside from the usual feeling of having listened to good music. I can think of a few similar examples, but I'll leave it at that one for brevity's sake.
Secondly, I don't think the Christian model of deity and matches my own very well. The most natural way for me to think about "god" is to think about plants, rocks, wind, space, and stars and how all of them are interconnected. Like, maybe "god" is simply the state of interconnection between all things? Bleh. My skills at explanation suck right now. In any case, the idea of a single supreme architect of the universe just seems weird to me, and trying to pray to said architect hasn't really changed that.
Additionally, anything religious I got into would probably wind up with nature woven tightly into it (whether or not that's the norm for said religion) simply because I'm so drawn to that kind of stuff. I find the most fascination, wonder, and fulfillment in being outdoors and observing and interacting with plants, animals, and landscapes - particularly those not excessively modified by humans.
Finally, I like the idea of integrating ritual into whatever practice I wind up in. Before I came back to college, I cut my thumb and left a drop of blood out in the desert. I'd had the odd desire to do so for a long time, and the experience, which I ritualized in a semi-spontaneous fashion, was startlingly fulfilling. I've seen some definite benefits from it, and it's given me the desire to try other ritual-like religious experiences sometime.
Umm... Yeah. There's my infodump. I'm open to various thoughts and suggestions.
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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:54 am
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mute_coyote Secondly, I don't think the Christian model of deity and matches my own very well. The most natural way for me to think about "god" is to think about plants, rocks, wind, space, and stars and how all of them are interconnected.
Mormonism is closer to this view than it is to the mainstream Christian view. In Mormonism, everything, from rocks, trees, rivers, and mountains, to the Earth and stars, has a spirit and degree of consciousness relative to its nature.
mute_coyote Like, maybe "god" is simply the state of interconnection between all things? Bleh. My skills at explanation suck right now.
"So that if any affirm a 'universal Intelligence,' or 'Cosmic Mind,' or 'Over Soul,' in the universe, it is an influence, a power proceeding either from an individual Intelligence or from harmonized individual Intelligences, a mind atmosphere proceeding from them--a projection of their mind power into the universe, as the sun and all suns, project light and warmth into the universe."
- B. H. Roberts, Seventy's Course In Theology
mute_coyote In any case, the idea of a single supreme architect of the universe just seems weird to me, and trying to pray to said architect hasn't really changed that.
Mormons don't pray to the supreme architect of the universe, they pray to their immediate Father in Heaven. Mormonism holds that we had an existence prior to being born here, and there is one school of thought which holds that we all had a hand in the creation, as well.
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Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:36 am
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So, I had this personal experience a while back that, while not explicitly religious, was very intensely spiritual. I've been having trouble figuring out if there were any close parallels to it in other religions I might check out, so I figured I'd post it here to see if I could get any suggestions from those with more experience than I, or at least, experience in different areas.
For a long time, I'd had this urge to leave some of my blood out in the sagebrush steppe near my house. There were a lot of reasons why that I could articulate, and a few more that I still don't quite know how to articulate. The reason that usually came through clearest was the desire to bind myself to the land I loved so much, to break down some of the borders between myself and that land.
The idea stewed in the back of my mind until just a few days before I was to return to college. I hiked to the top of a hill near my house with an awesome view of the surrounding cities and steppe, said something spontaneous that might have counted as a prayer, cut my thumb, and pressed it against a sagebrush skeleton clinging to the ground to leave some of my blood behind. Then, I sprinkled some dust over the blood and walked away.
My feelings afterward can best be described as elation and pride. I hung out on the hill for a bit before heading back down. I had a few small personal epiphanies as I walked home and definitely felt like I was closer to being an adult than I had been before (which was a very cool bonus since that's something I've had issues with).
So, yeah... I figured I might try using this experience as a guide to help me find other fulfilling practices. A few of the elements that stand out to me as particularly important are the involvement of nature and the psychological strain and catharsis resulting from the difficult journey and bloodletting.
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