An Introduction to Goth music and subculture

[L Ron Jeremy]

Simply put: If it doesn't trace its roots to the UK post-punk scene or the LA punk scene, it's not goth.
What you consider goth means s**t because goth has been a defined genre for going on 25 years.

Metal and visual kei have s**t to do with goth.

And I, personally, don't like Tim Burton.
I've enjoyed a few of his movies, but I honestly think he's not more than a pretentious half-wit, and Alice looks like it's going to be a shitty movie.

 

[IY_and_MCR]

Angel of the End

I personally consider

Well there's yer problem.

Also, this is why we have roughly a billion 'what is goth threads' everywhere.
This discussion it'd be better had in one of those threads, instead of putting more of it in here.
Trying to keep it about 'what is goth' in relation to music, in this thread.


Tim Burton is a c**t, by the way.  

[Death of Cool]

Angel of the End

Some people do not consider more visual Japanese bands, like Blood or Malice Mizer, to be goth. I personally consider them to be very much so.

They're not goth.You're wrong.
Most visual kei has more in common with 80's hair metal than anything else.

Angel of the End

Goth vaires alot, from some techno groups, to metal, to just about everything (save for country, rap, and such... -shudders at the thought- but if someone wanted to, they very well could... I suppose....).

It does vary, but unless it can be fit into post-punk, deathrock or darkwave it ain't goth.

Angel of the End

As for Tim Burton, doesn't everyone love him? It's odd to find someone, anyone, who does not... not a good point some people make in defining things.

Tim Burton is a hack who hasn't done anything worth watching since the early 90's.

Angel of the End

However, thank you for pointing out someone does not have to be a cookie-cut conformist in order to be a goth.

Style wise, clothing wise, goth is theoretically supposed to be about individuality and creativity. Obviously it doesn't really work out that way too often, because there are too many hangers-on who are neither individual nor creative. Becoming nearly a household word at times hasn't helped much in that respect either. Ultimately though, if it isn't related to the music or the subculture surrounding the music, it isn't goth.  

[L Ron Jeremy]

See, Angel, you're doing the thing that many mallgoths and poseurs tend to do, and that's trying to mold goth into your personal standards in order to pass off as part of the subculture.
That's part of the reason many elder goths and former batcavers tend to push themselves away from the goth subculture; too many kids trying to make goth into something it's not.
It's also why it's hard for many elder goths to take most of us younger (true) goths seriously.
So yeah, for what it's worth, thanks.

Anyway, you have to remember goth is a musical genre, and the subculture based around that specific music genre.
Nothing more.

If you're going to bring up the fashion argument, then consider this: why is certain fashion considered goth?
The answer: The pretty people on stage, and the fans in the crowd who like the way the pretty people on stage look.
So, even then, essentially "goth" fashion still has its connections to the music, as most goths probably wouldn't dress the way they do if people like Dinah Cancer, Eva O, and Siouxsie Sioux didn't decide they wanted to look cool with DIY in their performances.

 

[Whisper Gently]

This thread made me laugh.