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 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:35 pm
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Mere Christianity is a book by C.S Lewis, the author of The Chronicles of Narnia, The Screwtape letters, and many other wonderful books.
Mere Chrisitianity is an absolutely fascinating read I recommend to anyone and everyone and is chock full of philosophical, good versus evil, goodness.
I was wondering if anyone here has read it, and if so, I was wondering if we could perhaps start a book discussion? The book is ripe with topic starters. So I'm going to start one right now:
Here is a passage in which Lewis speaks of the fall of man and one major sin--Trying to be God or trying to be apart from God.
".....The moment you have a self at all, there is a possibility of putting yourself first--wanting to be the center-- wanting to be God, in fact. That was the sin of Satan: and that was the sin he taught the human race.... What Satan put into the heads of our remote ancestors was the idea that they could 'be like gods'-- could be their own masters-invent some sort of happiness for themselves outside of God, apart from God."
Firstly, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this passage. Is Lewis right, wrong? How else do people 'try to be gods' or try to get away from God?
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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:43 pm
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:17 am
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:15 am
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:24 pm
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Eh...I'm not a huge fan of C.S. Lewis. I loved the Chronicles of Narnia when I was young, but all of the Christian apologist stuff I've read by him hasn't really lived up to what I expected...
On the subject of "us being Gods", though, I had a very moving experience yesterday morning on which I wrote a shot paragraph (This is actually an excerpt from my diary):
"I dreamed a poem this morning, actually, and it was perfect. As I felt myself waking, I grasped at the words, trying to lift them up with me. I felt as if I was rising up out of the ocean. The remains of a shipwreck were struggling to float just above the surface, the survivors clinging to pieces of furniture and wood while I, having always be greater than them, realized that I had sprouted wings. I had the power to save them, but not the time.
Though it was certainly more abstract than this, I know that the themes of the words were generally affiliated with the sea. Words like "shells" and "algae" vaguely run through my head even now, after the carnage. But they are lost souls; renegades bound to roam forever until they, too, disappear like their siblings. As I felt that cold and harsh master, consciousness, once again take hold and driving away any resistance of the subconscious mind's occupation, I inwardly wept as the newborn words were slaughtered like cattle. And I was responsible for it all. I was God. I had created them and let them die, all on my terms, for I am both my conscious and subconscious mind.
Why can't I remember the words? If I was God upon my waking, why am I not God right now? Christ revived Lazarus, so why can't I revive those pristine, innocent lines?
It's because my conscious mind is greedy. That's why I won't sleep. No matter how much I try to wake my creative side, my being physically awake will always contain me..."
It goes on from there, but yeah...
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:26 pm
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Lethkhar Eh...I'm not a huge fan of C.S. Lewis. I loved the Chronicles of Narnia when I was young, but all of the Christian apologist stuff I've read by him hasn't really lived up to what I expected... On the subject of "us being Gods", though, I had a very moving experience yesterday morning on which I wrote a shot paragraph (This is actually an excerpt from my diary): "I dreamed a poem this morning, actually, and it was perfect. As I felt myself waking, I grasped at the words, trying to lift them up with me. I felt as if I was rising up out of the ocean. The remains of a shipwreck were struggling to float just above the surface, the survivors clinging to pieces of furniture and wood while I, having always be greater than them, realized that I had sprouted wings. I had the power to save them, but not the time. Though it was certainly more abstract than this, I know that the themes of the words were generally affiliated with the sea. Words like "shells" and "algae" vaguely run through my head even now, after the carnage. But they are lost souls; renegades bound to roam forever until they, too, disappear like their siblings. As I felt that cold and harsh master, consciousness, once again take hold and driving away any resistance of the subconscious mind's occupation, I inwardly wept as the newborn words were slaughtered like cattle. And I was responsible for it all. I was God. I had created them and let them die, all on my terms, for I am both my conscious and subconscious mind. Why can't I remember the words? If I was God upon my waking, why am I not God right now? Christ revived Lazarus, so why can't I revive those pristine, innocent lines? It's because my conscious mind is greedy. That's why I won't sleep. No matter how much I try to wake my creative side, my being physically awake will always contain me..." It goes on from there, but yeah...
Hmmmm...Very Interesting! I'm glad you were bold enough to share some of your diary, (especially on the internet). You have a way with words I see, your style of writing interests me.
I wish I had the attention span to keep a diary.
But aside from that, I like your questions at the end of your entry.
To summarize, "If I could think and create this beautiful poem as I was waking, why can't remember them now?"
Am I right, or am misunderstanding?
You also talked about your "physical being containing you" or rather being physically awake containing you. That kinda reminds me of the whole "limitations of the earthly body," which is talked about in the Bible. I wonder if heavenly bodies are blessed with perfect memory....
Just my thoughts. Cool overall. |
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:27 pm
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:55 pm
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I read this book sometime a year ago, and I absolutely loved it. C.S. Lewis makes some really awesome points, and my favorite part of the book was the very beginning, before he even got into the Christianity part.
Lewis is absolutely right when he talks about human beings wanting to be their own gods. I used to get a Christian magazine, and it posed this question: if there was no reward for following God (namely, Heaven), would we still choose to follow Him, to save us from our sin? The answer was no. We like sin. Sin feels good. Even when things were perfect, even when God had provided everything for us, even when we knew Him and walked with Him everyday, literally, physically, we chose sin. We chose ourselves and our pride and our ego over His will and desires for our life. We do it because we don't know any better, because we're born with it. It's like asking a person to act completely outside their culture when they've never been exposed to anything else. We are born into a culture of sin. But that doesn't mean our situation is hopeless, or that we are condemned to live in sin for our whole lives. That's Jesus' purpose. He came to fix that, to teach us better standards, and to extend an invitation of eternal life in exchange for our mortal and ungodly ones.
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:57 am
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dragongirl42391 Lethkhar Eh...I'm not a huge fan of C.S. Lewis. I loved the Chronicles of Narnia when I was young, but all of the Christian apologist stuff I've read by him hasn't really lived up to what I expected... On the subject of "us being Gods", though, I had a very moving experience yesterday morning on which I wrote a shot paragraph (This is actually an excerpt from my diary): "I dreamed a poem this morning, actually, and it was perfect. As I felt myself waking, I grasped at the words, trying to lift them up with me. I felt as if I was rising up out of the ocean. The remains of a shipwreck were struggling to float just above the surface, the survivors clinging to pieces of furniture and wood while I, having always be greater than them, realized that I had sprouted wings. I had the power to save them, but not the time. Though it was certainly more abstract than this, I know that the themes of the words were generally affiliated with the sea. Words like "shells" and "algae" vaguely run through my head even now, after the carnage. But they are lost souls; renegades bound to roam forever until they, too, disappear like their siblings. As I felt that cold and harsh master, consciousness, once again take hold and driving away any resistance of the subconscious mind's occupation, I inwardly wept as the newborn words were slaughtered like cattle. And I was responsible for it all. I was God. I had created them and let them die, all on my terms, for I am both my conscious and subconscious mind. Why can't I remember the words? If I was God upon my waking, why am I not God right now? Christ revived Lazarus, so why can't I revive those pristine, innocent lines? It's because my conscious mind is greedy. That's why I won't sleep. No matter how much I try to wake my creative side, my being physically awake will always contain me..." It goes on from there, but yeah... Hmmmm...Very Interesting! I'm glad you were bold enough to share some of your diary, (especially on the internet). You have a way with words I see, your style of writing interests me. I wish I had the attention span to keep a diary. But aside from that, I like your questions at the end of your entry. To summarize, "If I could think and create this beautiful poem as I was waking, why can't remember them now?" Am I right, or am misunderstanding? You also talked about your "physical being containing you" or rather being physically awake containing you. That kinda reminds me of the whole "limitations of the earthly body," which is talked about in the Bible. I wonder if heavenly bodies are blessed with perfect memory.... Just my thoughts. Cool overall.
Well, I try to sort of try to put a spin of technique and art into my writing for myself...So there are several things going on there, along with several biblical allusions. Firstly, there's the obvious,"I woke up having dreamed a poem, but forgot it upon waking." However, this experience had a very severe impact on the way I think. I mean, I created something from the very core of my being which I considered "perfect", if you will. I said that my own work was perfect. That's the first clue I ever gave that I was being a deity in my mind-It was a reference to "And He saw that it was good" in Genesis. The poem was a sort of Eden.
Obviously, the ocean and shipwreck were an allusion to Noah's Ark. 'Twas a poem about the death of hope, which perfectly reflected the fate of the poem itself.
Once I had lifted myself up above my words/thoughts, they suddenly became unreachable-They were left unprotected to the tyranny of a control freak. Namely: My conscious mind. Or the other side of God, whichever way you see it.
And then I suddenly lost the power to create, which only left me with the power to destroy. Which makes me think of Hinduism more than Christianity...
The last bit is the idea of containment; I ended up confining myself. I can't create, but I can't destroy anymore because everything is gone. All that's left is physical reality, in which I am nearly powerless.
And that serves as he point from which you can tie in all sorts of philosophy which I won't get into right now because it's kind of long and it doesn't have much to do with the discussion. There's all kinds of other stuff I did there, but I'm tired and I think I've probably already given way too much insight into it. You'll have to do the rest of the interpretation yourself. That's the fun part, anyway.
Anyway, it was a rather spiritually enlightening moment for me, and I have no qualms with sharing it with others. I just felt that that particular layer pertained to the discussion. |
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:04 am
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:14 pm
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Fushigi na Butterfly I read this book sometime a year ago, and I absolutely loved it. C.S. Lewis makes some really awesome points, and my favorite part of the book was the very beginning, before he even got into the Christianity part.
Lewis is absolutely right when he talks about human beings wanting to be their own gods. I used to get a Christian magazine, and it posed this question: if there was no reward for following God (namely, Heaven), would we still choose to follow Him, to save us from our sin? The answer was no. We like sin. Sin feels good. Even when things were perfect, even when God had provided everything for us, even when we knew Him and walked with Him everyday, literally, physically, we chose sin. We chose ourselves and our pride and our ego over His will and desires for our life. We do it because we don't know any better, because we're born with it. It's like asking a person to act completely outside their culture when they've never been exposed to anything else. We are born into a culture of sin. But that doesn't mean our situation is hopeless, or that we are condemned to live in sin for our whole lives. That's Jesus' purpose. He came to fix that, to teach us better standards, and to extend an invitation of eternal life in exchange for our mortal and ungodly ones.
I totally agree. I think "culture of sin" describes it perfectly. That is why the church (the body of Christ) is such a safe-haven for a lot of people. Of course, it isn't a total escape, but it's really nice to be around people who also wish to sort of get away from the culture of sin, and encourage you as well. The culture of Christ! (Has a nice ring, lol ) |
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:27 pm
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Wow, that is very cool, very cool to be affected in that way. To me, I would take away from that experience a gentle reminder that I'm not perfect, inherently imperfect I am, and that it's not just other people who cause problems that I sometimes have.
To bring it back around, that is one way, I confess, I set myself up as more of a god. I have a tendency to think "well this problem is their fault not mine, cause I'm perfect!" rolleyes I need to work on being more humble, because only God is perfect, and I definitly need some work.
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:29 pm
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Reply
