Realism vs Realistic Rendering

[Errol McGillivray]

Realism vs Realistic Rendering <--- No posting there.

Forgive me if this seems rushed, but I snuck in in between things at the office.


I think "realism" is one of the most mis-used terms I see among internet artists. (Internet artists being defined as artists whose entire art experience largely happens through digital means and have most, if not all their artistic contact online.) I think many people use the term as they do because they aren't aware of what it means in art.

Realism, was a 19th century artistic movement where artists were coming away from idealistic representations of people and life. People moved away from depictions of beautiful, rich people being beutiful and rich. They expressed more gritty subjects and sought to show things as they really were. It was really more about expression than visuals.

My single most favorite examples of a Realist work is Manet's Olympia. Before Olympia, the image of the courtesan/prostitute/love-slave/mistress was highly idealized. They were creamy and smooth. They were coy in their posture, usually turned away, shyly glancing back at the viewer, or not looking at all. Olympia looks right at the viewer, with her body facing. She's unashamed. She's pale. She's looks like any woman on the street. She's real. Needless to say, that the time is was called porn and the cops had to come and hold people back from destroying it when it was hung in the Salon in Paris. (Google Manet Olympia to take a look.) Many realist works were about everyday life of farmers, fishers, women, and people just doing what they do.

I think what people are calling realism, is actually considered impressionism. The impressionist focus is in recreating what really happens visually with light and color. (Which you can do with non-realistic figures. Check out Ingres's Le Grande Odalisque. She's got this weird anatomy going on, but the rendering is so accurate that you can almost feel the textures with your eyes, from the silk of the drapes to the smooth peachy feel of her skin. (Google it.)

So, when we see realistic renderings in anime for example, it's more of an impressionist work than realism as anime figures are highly idealized. (Women especially.)

tl;dr breakdown:
Realism - The way things really are in everyday life
Impressionism - How things would really render with visually with light and color

Renderings of perfect girls so they look touchable is impressionism, not realism. I believe people are confusing "realism" and "realistically rendered".  

[Breezies]

I don't know if i'm supposed to comment on this or not, so i'm going to anyway. I learned about this in World History when we were studying Paris, I think, and the Enlightenment Ideas that came after the Renaissance. My book said that people wanted to express things how they saw them. Even their music, which doesn't really make sense to me, but w/e. Anyway I thought it was nice how World History does actually come in handy... Even though I don't like it. sweatdrop  

[heyy13]

When have people ever called anime realism? Anime is definatly NOT realism, as you've said. It baffles me as to why anyone would think like that.

Realism was a movement, but the useage of the word has evolved in the new art scene; specifically on the internet as you said, in which most artists arn't art educated and therefor don't know the corect usage of the terms. Because of this however the meaning of realism has evolved to include art in which the subject has been realistically rendered to "photographic quality". Reguardless on weather the subject is that which falls under the classical terms or as far out as fantasy.

Anime cannot be realism in the classic meaning or the in the meaning of the "buzz word" it's become. As you've mentioned it's style can be much more likened to impressionism, but that doesn't sit right with me either and and isn't true for every instance.

o__o;;

Probably a waste of space writing that, but that's my oppinion of the subject, and really the language is allways evolving. It's like "Anti Analysing" and "Sell Out" in the pixeling world. The meaning is changing and the connotations of said meaning is changing and they are being used wrongly, but then the new meaning is still applicable as long as the historical significance and historic meaning are remembered.

 

[Viceregal]

I don't want to make a sweeping generalisation but I believe when some artists say they employ "realism" they are refering to the incorperation of realistic details. This misnomer is already widely understood and accepted.

Adding realistic details to illustrations depicting magical, fantastical and even surrealistic scenes brings a degree of believability. This is also applied to some styles of manga/anime.

~*~

The internet is a tremendous resource for artists but it can also be a crutch. Art classes focus on techniques and history while various art communities online put emphasis on encouragement and support.

Ultimately it is up to the artist to choose what they are interested in learning.

~*~

Painting or drawing the things we see around us and in every day life isn't interesting for all artists. It is definately great practice, not only to learn how to draw using a realistic style but also to help with almost all other elements of visual art: composition, color, shading ect. I recommend this kind of practice for all artists regardless of style.

However I would never say it is better than anything else out there in terms of art either.

It all comes down to personal taste.  

[.[ Cheesecube ].]

I realize your point about the term 'realism' being misused- I see it all the time when artists do a little bit more rendering or shading, or even just something that isn't they call it realism.

But it depends on what you're talking about, really; this is a realistic portrait drawn by an artist on Deviant Art. It would be wrong to note it as realism because it's a portrait of a celebrity and not a depiction of something in every day life, but it certainly is not impressionism seeing as how impressionism is:
[from dictionary.com]
a. (usually initial capital letter) a style of painting developed in the last third of the 19th century, characterized chiefly by short brush strokes of bright colors in immediate juxtaposition to represent the effect of light on objects.
b. a manner of painting in which the forms, colors, or tones of an object are lightly and rapidly indicated.
c. a manner of sculpture in which volumes are partially modeled and surfaces roughened to reflect light unevenly.

Nothing about it is choppy. And neither is realistically digitally rendered anime or cartoon-y style art. You are correct in saying anime is never realism as realism is depictions of everyday life, but if you are going to use one dictionary definition you need to use another, as impressionism is more than just 'what happens visually with light and color'. It's a specific style of brush strokes more than the light.  

[Zaquille]

I do agree with the definitions are being a bit "bent". Realism isn't exactly being misused though, we all have different comprehensions of the definition of Realism even though it might be something completely different in the Dictionary.

Now a days its just how close you can make mimic the subject to the world that surrounds you even though it doesn't exactly exist, but in schools their defining this word when it was most popular and that was around the 19th century (well for my school at least), and as we know times always change. Art is a subject that constantly shifting, and that means trends come and go like the wind.

Artist are now able to take a "copy" of what they see before them with a photograph and be able to paint, draw, sculpt, and etc from that photograph and be able to adjust whatever they want in the photo or add things that weren't there at the time (example: un-realistic creatures, or realistic objects). We have more tools at our despoil then before, so its natural that somethings change in the definition of styles.

I do agree that Anime/Manga isn't realism, and it will never be realism since no human will ever be able to have the anatomy that some of the artist come up with.

 

[David Keju]

No not impressionism, Impressionism focuses on give an impression of a real thing, usually landscape, but using quick strokes and blobs of colour.


The meaning of the word realism in the digital ages has changed to encompass any non-stylized work.  

[blackmoondrops]

It seems to me like the same thing as what has happened to the word gay. Society has twisted it to a totally different meanings (as followed):

1 (the original meaning) Happy, chipper, ect.
2. Someone who's sexual orientation is of the same gender.
-Also can be used for animals
-Also can be used to describe an item or outfit that seems to fit the "gay" stereotype.
3. Something that suxs (which I highly disapprove of considering the former meaning to the same word).

It seems to me that some of you taken offense to this mis-use of a word, but I consider this to be the natural transitioning occurrence of the English language; if not many other languages. If this did not happen then we'd probably all still be speaking like Shakespeare.
Anyhow, I thank you for the art history session. It was interesting.  

[blackmoondrops]

And as for manga/anime art being realism; I have seen pictures of anime/manga characters re-done with an imperfect, but some times very close to "realistic" version of what the character would look like in real life.

Anime/manga however is in my opinion, a stylistic choice, and shouldn't be looked down upon. The style, as most modern anime artists seem to put it, a simplified version of life. To even be able to make good decisions on what exact lines to reproduce life, and how do draw even the lines themselves properly is a very difficult task. And is actually, as I find, more harder than actually drawing a "realistic" picture based on a model posing in front of you.
But perhaps my vision is warped because there are no teachers of manga in my school. Only those who press "less lines and more contrast."  

[Hourglas]

This exact issue was brought up by my History of Art professor. this work by Gustave Courbet was his favorite example. Like you said, it shows the gritty real world. I believe that Realism therefore is more about the subject than how 'realistic' it even looks, I think.

Impressionism is more about what things really look like. They usually look sloppy because they were done fast, to capture how something really looked. Monet did a dozen of these haystacks to capture precise colors of shadows. Like you said- it's more about light and color, so I guess I'm agreeing with you.

I wish I could remember the exact 'ism' that my Prof renamed all these 'Realism' pieces. I'll have to dig around in my notebook.  

[Mogtoats]

I am utterly confused now.

So how do you call the style where you try to emulate real-life conditions as much as possible? Realistic rendering?  

[Errol McGillivray]

The Martian

I am utterly confused now.

So how do you call the style where you try to emulate real-life conditions as much as possible? Realistic rendering?

Pretty much. Realistic rendering isn't a style. It was one of the themes of the impressionist movement though. Kind of like how anime is called a style, but there are so many different styles under the umbrella, it's a bit unfair to just label something "anime" because of a feature like the size of the eyes. At least in my opinion.  

[Sazarac]

My favorite period is the Pre-Raphalite. Here is an image of a prostitute that is both real and emotive. Rossetti's "Found". http://www.victorianweb.org/painting/dgr/paintings/11.html

The pre-raphs worked in a style that is almost hyper real and yet still very beautiful. They also used a lot of prostitutes as models. wink
I work in what I like to call "suspension of disbelief". Like an actor or writer, I try to make what I do seem plausible. Even if it couldn't possibly be. Which why I like surrealistic art so much. Both realistic and realism.
But then I could also be full of sh*t.... mrgreen