A Little Learning... Teaching in the Pagan Scene

[TeaDidikai]

Many traditions that exist by virtue of a Teacher-Student relationship express a deep sense of responsibility.

Teachers and Students have responsibility to one another. Some of these relationships even hang the Student's credit to their field and their misconduct on their Teacher.

Within the Information Age, we have a wealth of words at our fingertip, but an understanding of quality seems to be lacking amongst the general population. We know this- it is the reason Fluffy Bunnies exist. Lots of bad information circling about and egocentric fears about self worth being diminished by being "wrong" perpetuate inaccurate and incomplete understandings.

It might also have something to do with a shift in Cultural Morals while the Tradition's morals remain stagnant and thus the information is recontextualized to fit the Culture to the detriment of the Tradition.

The example I'll use is Wicca.
An initiatory oathbound tradition wherein someone must meet the standards of being a Proper Person.

Proper Personhood is determined by existing Wiccans who the Seeker asks to educate them. If the Wiccan decides that they are not a Proper Person, then they are asked to leave.

Proper Personhood strikes me as extremely complex, but one of the most obvious reasons I would think someone could be rejected is if they were deemed unable to maintain the oaths of the Wica. Wiccan's have a responsibility to protect the Craft and their Coven and thus Wiccans are careful in who they bring into the religion.

It is a Wiccans job to transmit the core of Wicca's teachings to those initiated. It is the Newly Made Priest or Priestess' job to fulfill those oaths. That is what they swear to others- their responsibility.

I have heard many people say they opted for their path because they didn't want someone to have authority in their spiritual relationships outside of themselves.

This fear of authority has cultivated lackluster scholarship and misinformation. While innovation is a requirement to perpetuation, there is a right way to go about it and a wrong way.

Within Wicca- this takes the form of Lineaged Wiccans founding their own traditions and noting what is Core to the theology and what is innovation. However- Fluff exists because of a sense of entitlement that has become a social norm within the scene and as a result, Ravenwolf markets her books as Wiccan.

I use Wicca as an example because they have a clear sense- a core teaching of responsibility. Eclecticism doesn't have a core at all. The Neo-Pagan scene is fraught with people who pick a book, read it and claim it as their religion, or part of their religion.

Most books have but a single chapter on Ethics, which doesn't actually teach how to critically think about the Ethical questions posed to us in a theological sense.

Many books published today do not teach people why spell X works- or how to make it work. It simply provides a collection of instructions which may or may not include a grounding in a cosmology that allows the reader to implement the lesson.

I find this to be highly unethical behavior.

It encourages laziness on the part of the "Student".

No longer are they thinking for themselves. So many claim that such is a luxury Neo-Paganism has afforded them while the reality is they traded in the authority of one form of clergy for the authority of an author who may or may not be qualified.

It generates a situation where the ignorant are set up to fail.

They followed the directions for the spell, why didn't it work? Could it be that magic isn't as simple as baking a cake- that there are tools that have been used in mystic traditions that these authors glaze over, or skip all together? And what disappointment when they do not succeed at the most basic of magical tasks.

It encourages dangerous advice.

From the example on Draven's site that included the misuse of Fox Glove, to some of the suggestions of interrupting other people's rituals out of ignorance... the dangers of not knowing all the facts before making a suggestion is very real within the scene.

We accept medical diagnosis from medical professionals and not the crazy on the street corner because their idea that feeding someone pocket lint rather than getting medical treatment for a heart attack could kill someone.

But in the name of being "Open Minded" (and I use the term loosely), we accept foolish and dangerous advice as gospel unless we are taught not to do so. Some people were taught how to use their BS detectors by parents, family, friends- other people still don't know how use theirs and it is those people that guilds such as this are for. I'm not concerned about Nuri, Deo, Shadow's spiritual well being. I am concerned with those who don't have the tools to be able to tell good advice from bad, and I am more worried about the people who perpetuate their personal ideas of "good advice" in places where it can be very dangerous.

So- we have several issues at hand which can be summed up into two groups.

Fluffism and it's dangers when it comes to "stock advice" and the responsibility of Mentors/Teachers/Advice Givers to and with Students/Seekers/Listeners.

Have at it!  

[ShadowSharrow]

Everyone has to fall on their arse and face a few time while learning to walk.
Some people only learn to respect the fire after they have been burned by it.

The ammount of information, half information and misinformation is huge esp on the web and in certain publications is honestly to my mind scary and I am glad that I lived so much of my journey the way I have.

There is also a hard process for those who do know 'stuff' about 'stuff'.
Sometimes I will not actively enguage in certain conversations with people for thier own good. I won't let a person hit up my bookshelf which reflects my journey and use it for short cuts which do not serve them ethier in the short term and most certainly in the long term.

I think getting burned, falling on your arse and your face and suffering as they are referred to as 'mr darks' is part of a tempering process
and everyone goes through this and even more so if and when they find them self teaching, or priesting or being a rescorce or touchstone or backup/fall back for someone.  

[patch99329]

Are there even books on the market nowadays that tell you why X works?

I wonder if one were to write their own 'spells', they would be any more or less effective. I've never thought this before, but surely, if you wrote a spell yourself, you would at least be aware of the psycological factors invovled in creating it.  

[PurpleDragonsGems]

patch99329

Are there even books on the market nowadays that tell you why X works?

I wonder if one were to write their own 'spells', they would be any more or less effective. I've never thought this before, but surely, if you wrote a spell yourself, you would at least be aware of the psycological factors invovled in creating it.

http://www.davensjournal.com/index.htm?TOC.htm&1  

[maenad nuri]

Dragon_Witch_Woman

patch99329

Are there even books on the market nowadays that tell you why X works?

I wonder if one were to write their own 'spells', they would be any more or less effective. I've never thought this before, but surely, if you wrote a spell yourself, you would at least be aware of the psycological factors invovled in creating it.

]http://www.davensjournal.com/index.htm?TOC.htm&1

Did you mean to link to something specific on Daven's site? You have to get the link from the bottom of the page.  

[TeaDidikai]

ShadowSharrow

Some people only learn to respect the fire after they have been burned by it.

The ammount of information, half information and misinformation is huge esp on the web and in certain publications is honestly to my mind scary and I am glad that I lived so much of my journey the way I have.

I wonder about the people who don't need to be burned to learn.
If being burned is what it takes- fine. But if we sit and watch them get burned when informing them would have taught them just as well- I'm not sure we are acting as a credit to compassion.

Granted, I also don't feel it is my job to save people from themselves. But where would we strike a reasonable compromise?

Quote:

There is also a hard process for those who do know 'stuff' about 'stuff'.
Sometimes I will not actively enguage in certain conversations with people for thier own good. I won't let a person hit up my bookshelf which reflects my journey and use it for short cuts which do not serve them ethier in the short term and most certainly in the long term.

Interesting. While I can understand being a private person, or simply having a tradition that doesn't welcome outsiders, the idea that something as simple as the books one might read as being a "short cut" might not be fair.

Lord knows I've read books many people have and come to completely different conclusions.

Quote:

I think getting burned, falling on your arse and your face and suffering as they are referred to as 'mr darks' is part of a tempering process
and everyone goes through this and even more so if and when they find them self teaching, or priesting or being a rescorce or touchstone or backup/fall back for someone.

I think that this is very useful to some. To others- it leads to things that no one should have to endure.

patch99329

Are there even books on the market nowadays that tell you why X works?

Some- yes. The first chapter in Embracing the Moon by Yas is all about basic energy work that she says fuels the practices found later in the book.

Quote:

I wonder if one were to write their own 'spells', they would be any more or less effective. I've never thought this before, but surely, if you wrote a spell yourself, you would at least be aware of the psycological factors invovled in creating it.

Indeed. Spinning Spells and Weaving Wonders argues just that.  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

It might also have something to do with a shift in Cultural Morals while the Tradition's morals remain stagnant and thus the information is recontextualized to fit the Culture to the detriment of the Tradition.

Do you think detriment is inevitable in every case?

Quote:

This fear of authority has cultivated lackluster scholarship and misinformation. While innovation is a requirement to perpetuation, there is a right way to go about it and a wrong way.

What are the right and wrong ways?  

[TeaDidikai]

Sophist

Do you think detriment is inevitable in every case?

I think it is the responsibility of the tradition to grown from the inside to suit the traditions needs rather than to be forced by external pressures.

If people dislike traditions that are held by a group for the group's wellbeing- then they should have the honesty to establish themselves as something other than the group.

Quote:

What are the right and wrong ways?

Mostly it is a function of documentation.
For example, I believe it was Scorplett who said that where things in her coven has changed, she has documented it as such and has not altered the core of Wicca.  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

Sophist

Do you think detriment is inevitable in every case?

I think it is the responsibility of the tradition to grown from the inside to suit the traditions needs rather than to be forced by external pressures.

If people dislike traditions that are held by a group for the group's wellbeing- then they should have the honesty to establish themselves as something other than the group.

Quote:

What are the right and wrong ways?

Mostly it is a function of documentation.
For example, I believe it was Scorplett who said that where things in her coven has changed, she has documented it as such and has not altered the core of Wicca.

I see. I ask because I'm trying to consider the implications of practicing an ancient religion whose texts are not whole and conclusive, thus necessitating practice whose ideas are based on the ancient ones, but fills in the gaps with educated guesses.  

[ShadowSharrow]

http://www.dizerega.com/?p=100

Quote:

I recently attended a Winter Solstice celebration here in Northern California. Held at a local community center, it was well attended by an enthusiastic crowd. A first glance indicated a growing and healthy NeoPagan community.

A second glance was not as reassuring.

Every new spiritual movement faces the challenge of enabling people unfamiliar with it to partake of its message, its approach to celebrating and connecting with the sacred. What is important is what is new, and what is off-putting and most easily misunderstood to others is also what is new. The more familiar the practice the more accessible the tradition – but at the same time in promoting greater accessibility the tradition might lose what it truly once had to offer. This dilemma is unavoidable when a tradition grows.

How a religion handles this task is vital to its future. History is replete with people seeking to institutionalize their spiritual tradition to make it “more relevant” to ever more people, and in the process losing track of its initial message. This case could easily be made for both Christianity and Islam in general, but is hardly unique to them. I have heard Buddhist friends make similar complaints about institutionalized Buddhism. Worse yet, as popularity grows some might seek to use the new tradition to further nonspiritual objectives of their own, as Constantine most definitely did with respect to Christianity and Japanese rulers did with Shinto. Such efforts can come both from those wielding power and from those who oppose them.

 

[TeaDidikai]

Sophist

I see. I ask because I'm trying to consider the implications of practicing an ancient religion whose texts are not whole and conclusive, thus necessitating practice whose ideas are based on the ancient ones, but fills in the gaps with educated guesses.

Citing sources is key for that.  

[PurpleDragonsGems]

Nuri

Dragon_Witch_Woman

patch99329

Are there even books on the market nowadays that tell you why X works?

I wonder if one were to write their own 'spells', they would be any more or less effective. I've never thought this before, but surely, if you wrote a spell yourself, you would at least be aware of the psycological factors invovled in creating it.

]http://www.davensjournal.com/index.htm?TOC.htm&1

Did you mean to link to something specific on Daven's site? You have to get the link from the bottom of the page.

*mutters* I knew I should have checked that link. Thanks xd

http://davensjournal.com/RBYCaS.xhtml  

[Doctrix]

TeaDidikai

I believe it was Scorplett who said that where things in her coven has changed, she has documented it as such and has not altered the core of Wicca.

Traditional Wiccans are also obligated to teach as they were taught. Part of that means making those kind of announcements about what things are not Traditional, and part of it means not adding those frilly bits until the students have learned the "official" way of things. Somebody once offered me a dance metaphor about learning traditional Japanese dances and not deviating from simple memorized movements until one was a master.