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 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:15 am
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:37 pm
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Lethkhar Ah, yes...Judas Iscariot. Perhaps one of the most controversial figures in history. Dante said that he was one of the three people so full of sin that they were in the very center of Hell-Along with Marcus Brutus and Caias Cassius. Yet to a select few, he is respected or held in wonder for his role in God's plan. Judas Iscariot raises many questions concerning the Christian religion. He was the one assigned to hold the money bag, but is more well-known by his infamous role as a "betrayer". We all know the story of Judas: Judas told the Pharisees where they could find Jesus, and was the one who Jesus claimed would betray him. He was therefore responsible for Jesus's subsequent crucifixion and death. He then shortly thereafter committed suicide. This has caused a lot of people to hate Judas Iscariot. And rightly so. However, if we look at this from a different perspective, we find several facts: -If Judas had not betrayed Jesus, then Jesus's role as a martyr could not have been fulfilled. This was key in God's plan. -Because Judas was a key role in God's plan, he can hardly be blamed for what destiny forced him to do. -Peter denied Jesus three times, just like he had prophecied, and he was forgiven. Why couldn't this be the case with Judas? -If we do assume that Judas was forced to give up the thing he loved the most, something which he loved so much that he committed suicide shortly after giving it up, and knowing that his name and honour (two very important things for that time) would be scorned for millenia to come, and that he went to Hell for the rest of eternity, then are we not left to assume that Judas payed more dearly for our sins than Jesus? -Does Jesus' plea, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do," (Luke 23:34) not apply to Judas? Is his atonement insufficient for Judas' sins? And more recently, the Gospel of Judas was discovered. This seemed to claim that Jesus actually told Judas to betray him. Judas's death also provides and interesting topic concerning the Bible. In two different books, it provides two different manners of death. You've probably only heard of the suicide: The Gospel of Matthew says that, after Jesus' arrest by the Roman authorities (but before his execution), the guilt-ridden Judas returned the bribe to the priests and committed suicide by hanging himself. The priests could not return the money to the treasury so they used it to buy a plot of ground in order to bury strangers. The Acts of the Apostles (1:18 ) says that Judas used the bribe to buy a field, but fell down, and burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. This field is called Akeldama or Field Of Blood. Acts 1 goes on to describe how his place among the apostles was subsequently filled by Matthias. Yet another account was preserved by the early Christian leader, Papias: "Judas walked about in this world a sad example of impiety; for his body having swollen to such an extent that he could not pass where a chariot could pass easily, he was crushed by the chariot, so that his bowels gushed out." Let us, for the moment, assume that I believe in God. This isn't one of my arguments against God. This is a discussion on Judas Iscariot and how he is viewed by Christians. I'm genuinely curious.
1. Judas Betrayed Jesus And Committed Suicide knowing that Hell was better than being rejected by the Perfect Lord
2. He Bought a Field and Hanged Himself on a tree above the road The Tree unable to support his weight it's branch broke and his body fell to the road to be later crushed by a chariot.
He wanted to be forgiven but He never thought that Jesus would Rise again three days later. |
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:12 pm
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Lethkhar freelance lover Having read parts of the Gospel of Judas and knowing that side of the story... I've always found him an interesting figure, though I've given him too much thought.
I suppose, now thinking about it, you have to take the great scheme of things in view before you truly judge Judas. God often used people in such a way that it would shame them or kill them in order to achieve a great puprose.
Judas may not have known it, but I suppose God used him to save us.
Interesting.
Give me some time to wrap my brain around this. "My mind Is in darkness. God, God I'm sick. I've been used And you knew All the time. God, God I'll never ever know Why you chose me For your crime. You're so bloody, Christ. You have murdered me. Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered-" -Judas, Jesus Christ: Superstar
You're totally speaking my language- I'm a theatre major razz I don't know if you already knew that and picked that accordingly or if it's just a coincidence but either way- I love that musical xD
Though ALW did take some liberties with the musical, if memory serves (it's been a few years since I've seen it and, sadly, I haven't gotten around to getting the soundtrack.) Plus, his is just one interpretation of the Judas story- anyone can take the story of Jesus, or any Biblical figure for that matter and make it a work of fiction. I'm currently reading a book called The Red Tent about the story of Dinah (Jacob's daughter). It's interesting and casts a new light on her story but would I take it as what happens- not necessarily.
Though- here's a thought. God often uses the unexpected to achieve the great. Prehaps it was simply that Judas was a weak-willed man tempted by money, but God used this flaw to carry out his greater plan for everyone. Wouldn't be the first time he used someone's flaw as an advantage. I'm still chewing my thoughts around in my brain. |
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:04 pm
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freelance lover Lethkhar freelance lover Having read parts of the Gospel of Judas and knowing that side of the story... I've always found him an interesting figure, though I've given him too much thought.
I suppose, now thinking about it, you have to take the great scheme of things in view before you truly judge Judas. God often used people in such a way that it would shame them or kill them in order to achieve a great puprose.
Judas may not have known it, but I suppose God used him to save us.
Interesting.
Give me some time to wrap my brain around this. "My mind Is in darkness. God, God I'm sick. I've been used And you knew All the time. God, God I'll never ever know Why you chose me For your crime. You're so bloody, Christ. You have murdered me. Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered-" -Judas, Jesus Christ: Superstar
Though ALW did take some liberties with the musical, if memory serves (it's been a few years since I've seen it and, sadly, I haven't gotten around to getting the soundtrack.) Plus, his is just one interpretation of the Judas story- anyone can take the story of Jesus, or any Biblical figure for that matter and make it a work of fiction. I'm currently reading a book called The Red Tent about the story of Dinah (Jacob's daughter). It's interesting and casts a new light on her story but would I take it as what happens- not necessarily.
Though- here's a thought. God often uses the unexpected to achieve the great. Prehaps it was simply that Judas was a weak-willed man tempted by money, but God used this flaw to carry out his greater plan for everyone. Wouldn't be the first time he used someone's flaw as an advantage. I'm still chewing my thoughts around in my brain.
Yargh, Jesus Christ: Superstar is my favorite musical. You can sympathize with everyone in the story. No one is totally evil. Everyone has their faults. And Christ, though detached, it still human. Sure, he takes liberties, but I love the interpretation. |
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:04 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:42 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:38 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:30 pm
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Lethkhar freelance lover Lethkhar freelance lover Having read parts of the Gospel of Judas and knowing that side of the story... I've always found him an interesting figure, though I've given him too much thought.
I suppose, now thinking about it, you have to take the great scheme of things in view before you truly judge Judas. God often used people in such a way that it would shame them or kill them in order to achieve a great puprose.
Judas may not have known it, but I suppose God used him to save us.
Interesting.
Give me some time to wrap my brain around this. "My mind Is in darkness. God, God I'm sick. I've been used And you knew All the time. God, God I'll never ever know Why you chose me For your crime. You're so bloody, Christ. You have murdered me. Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered me Murdered-" -Judas, Jesus Christ: Superstar
Though ALW did take some liberties with the musical, if memory serves (it's been a few years since I've seen it and, sadly, I haven't gotten around to getting the soundtrack.) Plus, his is just one interpretation of the Judas story- anyone can take the story of Jesus, or any Biblical figure for that matter and make it a work of fiction. I'm currently reading a book called The Red Tent about the story of Dinah (Jacob's daughter). It's interesting and casts a new light on her story but would I take it as what happens- not necessarily.
Though- here's a thought. God often uses the unexpected to achieve the great. Prehaps it was simply that Judas was a weak-willed man tempted by money, but God used this flaw to carry out his greater plan for everyone. Wouldn't be the first time he used someone's flaw as an advantage. I'm still chewing my thoughts around in my brain.Yargh, Jesus Christ: Superstar is my favorite musical. You can sympathize with everyone in the story. No one is totally evil. Everyone has their faults. And Christ, though detached, it still human. Sure, he takes liberties, but I love the interpretation.
We actually discussed in one of my classes last semester how is was about Jesus the man, not Jesus the Son of God.
I really need that soundtrack.
I personally really love Godspell. It's so campy, a bunch of hippies singing about God which is fitting since Jesus was totally a hippie. And it was actually written by an athiest about what he thought was the greatest story of love ever told. Not to mention the music is great too smile |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:57 pm
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Lethkhar Aenik Canar (Don't ignore My post far above please.) What's there to say about it? It's your opinion, I suppose. Still, I find it kind of tragic that Judas would go Hell simply because he was used by God to save the lot of us. In fact, one might say that he paid more dearly for our sins than Jesus. |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:30 pm
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Aenik Canar Lethkhar Aenik Canar (Don't ignore My post far above please.) What's there to say about it? It's your opinion, I suppose. Still, I find it kind of tragic that Judas would go Hell simply because he was used by God to save the lot of us. In fact, one might say that he paid more dearly for our sins than Jesus. Where does it say that Judas wewnt to Hell?
Aenik Canar 1. Judas Betrayed Jesus And Committed Suicide knowing that Hell was better than being rejected by the Perfect Lord
I naturally assumed that you meant that Judas went to Hell. confused |
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:51 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:19 pm
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