In a bad mood? come here and rant till you feel better

[Shearaha]

Just an update not a rant. The bank decided to refund all of the overdraft charges heart I'm going to call and thank the banker that worked with me as soon as the bank opens heart  

[maenad nuri]

AngryRobotsInc.

My kid is going through a lot of health issues right now, some of which are a bit TMI for public discussion. We're flat broke (as in literally no money in either of the two bank accounts used), and have several more doctor appointments to go. As well as filling my son's prescription, that helps control his self-harming behavior.

He'll also be starting a special gluten free, casein free diet after allergy testing next month, so I have to hope his disability check will cover stocking up groceries for him, and the co-pay for his doctor appointments and medicine.

On top of all that, he'll be starting at a new school this year, and he does not adapt to change well, with his issues. This has been a stressful summer, and it is only gearing up to get worse. I'm stressing even more because I never really get to get out of the house, because I am unable to drive.

I feel a little better after venting, at least.

If you ever need to bounce ideas off someone, pm me, or contact me somehow. I've got loads of experience from both the personal and school perspective.

I hope the GF diet works. I had a couple of kids who it was the most amazing thing ever, but it never worked for my brother, even if we could get him to eat that way.

Ask for samples of the meds if the doc has them. Check which manufacturer makes them and see if they are covered under their free program (Eli Lily has Lilycares, which has provided nick with free insulin for 2 years)

There might be local organizations which do free or low-charge babysitting. If there is, just go for a walk.

Last but not least, Autism sucks. It really does.  

[maenad nuri]

Shearaha

Just an update not a rant. The bank decided to refund all of the overdraft charges heart I'm going to call and thank the banker that worked with me as soon as the bank opens heart

And speak to their supervisor. That looks good!  

[IH_Zero]

maenad nuri

If you ever need to bounce ideas off someone, pm me, or contact me somehow. I've got loads of experience from both the personal and school perspective.

I hope the GF diet works. I had a couple of kids who it was the most amazing thing ever, but it never worked for my brother, even if we could get him to eat that way.

Ask for samples of the meds if the doc has them. Check which manufacturer makes them and see if they are covered under their free program (Eli Lily has Lilycares, which has provided nick with free insulin for 2 years)

There might be local organizations which do free or low-charge babysitting. If there is, just go for a walk.

Last but not least, Autism sucks. It really does.

Thanks. We're managing, mostly, and thankfully, he has enough medicine to last until his next check comes in. That's one of the things I won't let slide until money comes, as when he's not on it, he hits and bites himself.

I'm working on trying to get out more, or get friends to come over in the evening once he's in bed. This month it's sort of had to be put on hold, but once things settle down, I should be able to get that back on track.  

[maenad nuri]

AngryRobotsInc.

Thanks. We're managing, mostly, and thankfully, he has enough medicine to last until his next check comes in. That's one of the things I won't let slide until money comes, as when he's not on it, he hits and bites himself.

Even when Philip is on meds, he'll still do that when he gets really upset. His hands used to be nothing but a chew toy in middle and high school.

Quote:

I'm working on trying to get out more, or get friends to come over in the evening once he's in bed. This month it's sort of had to be put on hold, but once things settle down, I should be able to get that back on track.

Good. This is something that really must happen.  

[aoijea23487]

TeaDidikai

Time for a small reality check. Vegans are people who do not eat or consume animal products.

That does not mean that they are, as a rule, against owning animals or against breeders.

It means they don't consume animal products, nothing more, nothing less.

Best not to make hasty generalizations.

i'm speaking for abolitionist vegans. not welfarist "vegans," like what PeTA and HSUS are all about. there is a rather large, heated argument between the two positions as what is legitimate veganism and what is not. but if you want to completely ignore that the definition of veganism is heavily contested and has been such for decades, sure, merely addressing the diet-aspects of vegans unifies them as a whole.

the use of animal products is debated. some "vegans" have no problem with using things like wool. that's technically an animal product, but welfarism would argue that if the sheep lives a little happy life on a little happy farm, nothing wrong is done. abolitionist veganism calls for an end to domesticated animals, period, and do not see welfarism as real veganism. as such, the only thing that unifies the two movements is an adherance to a strict vegetarian diet. but that's strict vegetarianism, not veganism. veganism encompasses the moral decisions above and beyond diet and into products and "services."

or perhaps it is my heavy bias toward abolitionism that prevents me from seeing welfarism as veganism, since the only thing vegan about them is their diet.

sometimes you will see veganism defined as only regarding food. sometimes you will see it extended to food and products like fur, leather, wool, etc.
sometimes you will see this:

the International Vegetarian Union:

Quote:

Veganism may be defined as a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practical, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose.

Quote:

The aims of The Vegan Society are:
1. To advocate that man's food should be derived from fruits, nuts, vegetables, grains, and other wholesome nonanimal products and that it should exclude flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, and animals' milk, butter, and cheese.
2. To encourage the manufacture and use of alternatives to animal commodities.

The Abolitionist Approach

Quote:

This site also seeks to make clear that the moral baseline of an animal rights movement is veganism. Veganism is not merely a matter of diet; it is a moral and political commitment to abolition on the individual level and extends not only to matters of food, but to clothing and other products, and to other personal actions and choices.

 

[Shearaha]

Illiezeulette

TeaDidikai

Time for a small reality check. Vegans are people who do not eat or consume animal products.

That does not mean that they are, as a rule, against owning animals or against breeders.

It means they don't consume animal products, nothing more, nothing less.

Best not to make hasty generalizations.

i'm speaking for abolitionist vegans. not welfarist "vegans," like what PeTA and HSUS are all about. there is a rather large, heated argument between the two positions as what is legitimate veganism and what is not. but if you want to completely ignore that the definition of veganism is heavily contested and has been such for decades, sure, merely addressing the diet-aspects of vegans unifies them as a whole.

the use of animal products is debated. some "vegans" have no problem with using things like wool. that's technically an animal product, but welfarism would argue that if the sheep lives a little happy life on a little happy farm, nothing wrong is done. abolitionist veganism calls for an end to domesticated animals, period, and do not see welfarism as real veganism. as such, the only thing that unifies the two movements is an adherance to a strict vegetarian diet. but that's strict vegetarianism, not veganism. veganism encompasses the moral decisions above and beyond diet and into products and "services."

or perhaps it is my heavy bias toward abolitionism that prevents me from seeing welfarism as veganism, since the only thing vegan about them is their diet.

sometimes you will see veganism defined as only regarding food. sometimes you will see it extended to food and products like fur, leather, wool, etc.
sometimes you will see this:

the International Vegetarian Union:

Quote:

Veganism may be defined as a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practical, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose.

Quote:

The aims of The Vegan Society are:
1. To advocate that man's food should be derived from fruits, nuts, vegetables, grains, and other wholesome nonanimal products and that it should exclude flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, and animals' milk, butter, and cheese.
2. To encourage the manufacture and use of alternatives to animal commodities.

The Abolitionist Approach

Quote:

This site also seeks to make clear that the moral baseline of an animal rights movement is veganism. Veganism is not merely a matter of diet; it is a moral and political commitment to abolition on the individual level and extends not only to matters of food, but to clothing and other products, and to other personal actions and choices.

I run into similar arguments all the time. People just don't seam to be able to make the distinction between animal rights (PeTA, HSUS) and animal welfare (ASPCA). I am an animal welfare advocate but can not stand animal rights.  

[aoijea23487]

Shearaha

I run into similar arguments all the time. People just don't seam to be able to make the distinction between animal rights (PeTA, HSUS) and animal welfare (ASPCA). I am an animal welfare advocate but can not stand animal rights.

PeTA and HSUS are also animal welfare organizations, not animal rights organizations. They are referred to as "new welfare." Off the top of my head I can't think of an animal rights organization other than action groups like the Animal Liberation Front.

I don't know everything about HSUS but I absolutely cannot stand PeTA. Imo, they do way more harm than good. Plus, they think exploiting women is a good approach to ending cruelty to animals [they have (or had?) a game where a scantily-clad woman took off clothes for every correct answer you gave regarding animal welfare concerns, and let's not forget the Playboy bunnies they hire clad in lettuce bikinis handing out fliers]. PeTA makes me want to vom.

For animal rights, there are books like Making A Killing and Vegan Freak, as well as websites like The Abolitionist Approach and this blog and this blog.  

[IH_Zero]

PETA is terrible. I live rather close to their Norfolk headquarters, actually. There's a reason they're commonly known around here as People Embarrassing the Tidewater Area.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

So....can you (or anyone) explain to me how having my Toby-dog is exploiting or otherwise harming him?  

[Recursive Paradox]

Violet Song jat Shariff

So....can you (or anyone) explain to me how having my Toby-dog is exploiting or otherwise harming him?

Seems like a load of bullshit to me. So I guess I'd like an explanation too.  

[TeaDidikai]

Illiezeulette

i'm speaking for abolitionist vegans. not welfarist "vegans," like what PeTA and HSUS are all about. there is a rather large, heated argument between the two positions as what is legitimate veganism and what is not. but if you want to completely ignore that the definition of veganism is heavily contested and has been such for decades, sure, merely addressing the diet-aspects of vegans unifies them as a whole.

Yes. I think I would rather like to ignore the fallacious rhetoric on both sides and address the denotative meaning of the word as laid out by authorities on the English language. Just to address the point more clearly

Quote:

the use of animal products is debated. some "vegans" have no problem with using things like wool. that's technically an animal product, but welfarism would argue that if the sheep lives a little happy life on a little happy farm, nothing wrong is done. abolitionist veganism calls for an end to domesticated animals, period, and do not see welfarism as real veganism.

They don't put honey on their porridge as well. stare

Quote:

as such, the only thing that unifies the two movements is an adherance to a strict vegetarian diet. but that's strict vegetarianism, not veganism.

This is another appeal to authority.

There are different forms of vegetarianism, vegan amongst them. See the definition above.

Quote:

veganism encompasses the moral decisions above and beyond diet and into products and "services."

You're making more generalizations. I have a friend Marcia who is vegan for no other reason than she is personally uncomfortable being exposed to animal products, period. Nothing moral about it.

Quote:

or perhaps it is my heavy bias toward abolitionism that prevents me from seeing welfarism as veganism, since the only thing vegan about them is their diet.

Yep. I'd say your bias and inability to actually track concepts beyond those biases is demonstrated quite clearly in your position.  

[Collowrath]

No honey on the porridge? sad That would make me a sad boy if I had to have my porridge with no honey.

Personally, I don't think it would be very "liberating" to force domestic animals like cats and sheep to live on their own when they haven't in thousands of years. Seems that would be more akin to genocide than liberation.  

[aoijea23487]

Recursive Paradox

Violet Song jat Shariff

So....can you (or anyone) explain to me how having my Toby-dog is exploiting or otherwise harming him?

Seems like a load of bullshit to me. So I guess I'd like an explanation too.

this is the abolitionist stance on pets/animal companions.
Sixth one down from the top.  

[aoijea23487]

Collowrath

No honey on the porridge? sad That would make me a sad boy if I had to have my porridge with no honey.

Personally, I don't think it would be very "liberating" to force domestic animals like cats and sheep to live on their own when they haven't in thousands of years. Seems that would be more akin to genocide than liberation.

i'm not sure anyone thinks that we should open the floodgates on animals and let them all roam free this very second. the world is not going to go vegan all at once. a decreased demand in animals/animal products yields a decreased production in them. does this mean that, even if the whole world went vegan eventually, sheep would go extinct? maybe. is that bad? in my opinion, no. animals go extinct all the time, whether by us or not.

edit: just to clarify; if for some reason all of humanity reverted back to like... medieval agrarian society and there was simply no way to survive without using animals, using animals is okay. veganism and AR generally argue that if one is in the position to be free of animal flesh/products/use/etc., one should do so because the objective function of animals is not to serve humanity. of course, the Bible says otherwise...