Nuri's Q&A topic

[Nines19]

maenad nuri

Nines19

I figure this is probably the proper place to ask this:
What are your (anyone) top three books concerning Hellenic Reconstruction, especially in regards to "newbies"?

I ask because, for my senior project at school I'm doing an extensive research project/series of presentations on several pagan religions, and one of them is Hellenic Recon. (There's the, I really want to learn everything there is to know, aspect as well, heh.) And the best place to go for information would (usually) be those who practice themselves, right?

Thanks for your help. =]

My top three?
For a solid scholarly intro: Burkert's Greek Religion
For a intro and how to into Hellenic Polytheism: Sarah Winter's Kharis: Hellenic Polytheism Explored
For a focus off of Athens: Nilsson's Greek Folk Religion

edit: and forgive me for taking time to respond. I've been camping.

This does not count various primary sources of mythology, etc.

Thank you very much. =]  

[Chaos Blue]

Hi!

So I've been researching Hellenic Paganism for a while, and, I feel connected to it, as I've always loved reading the myths, and felt like I've had certain connections with certain stories and gods (Even though, that may or may not be the case). So I've been setting up for some changes in my beliefs, since, the more I thought about it, the more the 'just god and goddess' thing didn't seem to go with every single culture, like I had read in the books.

My question is, amongst these changes I'm going through, are there certain aspects that just don't mesh with Hellenic paganism? Such as the sabbat/esbat rituals, the pentagram, and wheel of the year?

I wouldn't suspect the rituals would mix well with it, because Hellenism already has festivals and feast days for their own gods. But what about different symbols? Can you tell me what you do with these different aspects, if anything?

EDIT: I know these are somewhat weird, and probably obvious questions to answer, but, eh. I need different perspectives.  

[maenad nuri]

No, they are great questions. I'm just running behind in everything I need to be doing smile

Short answer: I've seen people do it, and do it well. It doesn't work for m e, and the people I know that do it well are also part of established groups (such as ADF) and also do other outside Hellenic work.

I have a hard time reconciling the traditional neo-pagan narrative to Hellenic context. And I think the main reason for this is that the np narrative is largely agricultural/seasonal, and Greece just doesn't have the same seasons. It makes sense to adapt a good bit to your own seasons for somethings (Like, despite Anthesteria being termed the festival of flowers and taking place in Febuary, I can't find a good reason to move it to April, it's context is tied to the Hellenic calendar)

What I sometimes do is change the narrative: celebrating a harvest is clearly something Demeter wouldn't mind being invited to, even if it's not a Hellenic title to the day.

But what I'm really doing, now that I'm an adult and my seasons aren't "school, school when it's cold, summer" is I pay some attention to the Hellenic calendar and learning the patterns that Illinois has, and not just seasonally. When does my community celebrate Heroes? What's important in my community and so on. That's creating something living, not something dusted off and proclaimed good enough.

I've thrown out a lot of neo-pagan narrative. I keep some because I do see myself as part of the pagan community -- I actually kind of like the whole element thing as metaphor, and it has it's beginnings in Greek scientific thought.

What connections have you had with stories and gods? When I was young, Demeter enraptured me. And I went through the whole "But wait...." part of "just god and goddess" as well when I realized the gods I knew the most didn't fit that at all.  

[Chaos Blue]

Yeah. When I think about some of the sabbats in relation to Greek culture, the lore of it doesn't seem to match up to me, and the more I actually try to get involved and do some of the sabbat rituals on my own, the less of a connection it seems I have to the Greek gods, because thinking about that lore it doesn't seem to fit the myths.

Although, when you mentioned adapting the seasons of your surroundings or inviting Demeter to a harvest celebration, that seems like a really good idea to try. Especially if one day, I decide to go to one huge pagan gathering, and the Sabbats are widely celebrated by many of them, why not?

As for the stories and the gods, I've felt a connection with Hermes first when I read the story about his birth, and the role he played in the Odyssey. We read a lot of Greek Mythology in English class. It struck maybe, a familiar tone with me because he was a traveler, as am I. So whenever I go someplace, I light an incense for Hermes and ask him for safety.
I also feel a link with Apollo, a very artistic and logical god. Before I read about him, I was doing all these things like taking Archery lessons (my favorite sport, and probably the only sport I like to actually enjoy doing), and I love drawing and all types of artwork. When I read about him (which was fairly recently) I went "Whoa". It wasn't even a "Lol we match" type of thing but seriously a "Whoa" moment. I just recently started making various art offerings to him. Really, I'd like to honor (in some way) and learn about all of the gods and the things they might appreciate, since Hellenic Paganism is something I'm really looking into.
Is there a set calendar of their feast days? Or does it depend on the month?

I'm not even sure if the resemblances I mentioned bear that much meaning. . .But whenever I think about it, it sure seems to. How am I supposed to know if any of it really does?  

[maenad nuri]

There are numerous calendars...
There's one here: http://www.numachi.com/~ccount/hmepa/
Hellenion has one as well: www.hellenion.org
Sarah Kate Winter sells one, and writes one up here: http://www.winterscapes.com/kharis/calendar.htm

I had one for awhile, but I couldn't keep it. It's a real struggle for me, so I remember what I can and try to do more daily things in honor of the gods, while I work on a real festival calendar.

You'll note that it's not a straightforward modern calendar. You may need to do some cross-referencing.

And trust me, I think Apollo ushers in a lot of "whoa" moments. He's the one that led me to Hellenic polytheism. Then Dionysos took over.  

[Chaos Blue]

Wow, thank you for the sources! It does seem to need a lot of modern adaptation, especially on a personal level.

Hey, I've been doing a lot of reading over the past couple of days, and I ran across this:
http://www.neosalexandria.org/index.htm
You've probably already seen it.
It seems interesting, but also kind of difficult to follow. I seem to resonate with both pantheons and mythos (Egyptian and Greek) in some way, but what are some of your thoughts on it? Or anyone else a part of this thread's thoughts for that matter. It almost seems eclectic, but then again, there's something else about it that strikes me as "It does make sense, historically" in some ways.

I seem to have a lot more questions than I thought I did. :] But that site has a lot of information on it that I'm still going through and sorting out in my mind. I'm trying not to do everything at once. It's a lot to take in, historically and personally. But I don't know, I kinda feel comfortable with that, you know?  

[maenad nuri]

Chaos Blue

Wow, thank you for the sources! It does seem to need a lot of modern adaptation, especially on a personal level.

Hey, I've been doing a lot of reading over the past couple of days, and I ran across this:
http://www.neosalexandria.org/index.htm
You've probably already seen it.
It seems interesting, but also kind of difficult to follow. I seem to resonate with both pantheons and mythos (Egyptian and Greek) in some way, but what are some of your thoughts on it? Or anyone else a part of this thread's thoughts for that matter. It almost seems eclectic, but then again, there's something else about it that strikes me as "It does make sense, historically" in some ways.

I seem to have a lot more questions than I thought I did. :] But that site has a lot of information on it that I'm still going through and sorting out in my mind. I'm trying not to do everything at once. It's a lot to take in, historically and personally. But I don't know, I kinda feel comfortable with that, you know?

Neos Alexandria is an amazing organization. I'm not part of it, because I don't have a lot of interest in greco-egyptian reconstruction stuff, but they are wonderful. Sannion, who runs it, is a wealth of information and passion. He's a Dionysian after all.

I'm actually published in one of their devotional collections: Written in Wine. I'm biased.

It is reconstruction, it's based in a specific period of time.  

[Opalescent_violet_14]

Omigosh, this is the most helpful thread yet in this entire forum and I don't even know a lot of the stuff you talk about. I didn't even notice that it was so long. (9 pages!!) I've been researching paganism since April and I found an interest in Hellenic polytheism. I've always been enthralled by Greek mythology. This seems like it might be a good path.... I was wondering, do you follow all the Greek goddesses and gods? Do you have any suggestions for a beginner?  

[maenad nuri]

a n n i v i

Omigosh, this is the most helpful thread yet in this entire forum and I don't even know a lot of the stuff you talk about. I didn't even notice that it was so long. (9 pages!!) I've been researching paganism since April and I found an interest in Hellenic polytheism. I've always been enthralled by Greek mythology. This seems like it might be a good path.... I was wondering, do you follow all the Greek goddesses and gods? Do you have any suggestions for a beginner?

More or less, yeah. My main focus is on Dionysos, but he'd be pissed if I ignored his family.

For a beginner, I suggest a good foundation in the mythology and then looking in on the ritual format. I know you've been looking for books, and the best for beginners I know is Kharis: Hellenic Polytheism Explored. Now, it's only available online but it is a great resource to get start with the ritual and religion side. I have both editions, and either one you can get a hand on is fine.

You can supplement that with a good reading of theoi.com, and until you can get these resources, I suggest learning the prayer format, and give simple offerings: milk, honey, olive oil, poetry, things you do, time, dance, etc. I'd say wine, but you are young smile

I will warn you -- you said you were looking for a witchcraft tradition. There is some record of magic usage, but it wasn't considered a great thing to do. Doesn't stop people from doing it, but it does mean that if you do, you need to take care that it isn't in am impious manner.  

[Opalescent_violet_14]

Well, I don't mind not having witchcraft in this. I was just interested in that first. I don't mind abandoning the idea of a witchcraft religion. Oh, and can you use knitting as an offering? and can you still wear the items or whatever?  

[maenad nuri]

a n n i v i

Well, I don't mind not having witchcraft in this. I was just interested in that first. I don't mind abandoning the idea of a witchcraft religion. Oh, and can you use knitting as an offering? and can you still wear the items or whatever?

I know many that do that. Some wear it, and some don't. I think it depends on what you knitted and who you give it too.  

[Opalescent_violet_14]

How did you decide to follow Dionysus over any other god or goddess? I just got this book on Greek mythology because I thought it would help me. I'm not sure if that was good reasoning on my part, but I know that I wanted a Greek mythology book anyways. Doesn't the maenad part of your username refer to the "maddened ones" as in the followers of Dionysus? The book is Myths of the Ancient Greeks by Richard P. Martin. I'm about a third of the way through and it makes a lot of sense to me. Here are some more questions: Is Dionysus like your primary god, even though you still follow and respect all of them? What do you think of Athena and Artemis? Do Hellenic pagans still celebrate Christian holidays like Christmas or Thanksgiving if they have Christian families? Well, not exactly "celebrate", but do they partake in activities that correspond with those holidays? and Are there any upcoming Hellenic holidays I should know about? Sorry if that's a lot to answer, but I wanted to ask them before I forgot them...  

[maenad nuri]

a n n i v i

How did you decide to follow Dionysus over any other god or goddess?

I'm focused on Dionysos, but not the exclusion of other gods. But it was certainly more of mutual thing, I was interested after I got started and then had ...well... an experience.

Quote:

I just got this book on Greek mythology because I thought it would help me. I'm not sure if that was good reasoning on my part, but I know that I wanted a Greek mythology book anyways.

Never a bad thing!

Quote:

Doesn't the maenad part of your username refer to the "maddened ones" as in the followers of Dionysus?

Yes. It's my goal for my sprititual journey.

Quote:

Is Dionysus like your primary god, even though you still follow and respect all of them?

He's my patron, and the god I work the most with. But a patron is not needed at all for Hellenic Polytheism at all.

Quote:

What do you think of Athena and Artemis?

Apollo brought me into the religion. But that's a hard question to answer. They are both incredibly complex individuals, but I have a soft spot because I'm a twin and I came first like Artemis.

Quote:

Do Hellenic pagans still celebrate Christian holidays like Christmas or Thanksgiving if they have Christian families? Well, not exactly "celebrate", but do they partake in activities that correspond with those holidays?

Thanksgiving isn't Christian, but it depends on whether they want to or not. I do things with my very Catholic family (and my husbands very Catholic family).

Quote:

and Are there any upcoming Hellenic holidays I should know about? Sorry if that's a lot to answer, but I wanted to ask them before I forgot them...

We're actually in a festival in honor of Athena. But don't worry too much about it. Learn more first.  

[Artistic Genocide]

Hullo Nuri and all!~

I'm not to sure what to say, really... I've been studying paganism for seven to eight years, and i've been a practicing witch for a little bit longer then that. But i recently stumbled, (more like pushed. -_-') onto this path, and i've been interested ever since. Even before i found this path, i was connected to the Greek gods and i adore the Myths and lengends surrounding them. I've been studying Hellenismos for only a little while, so i'm still very new. sweatdrop

I have a few questions, if you don't mind me asking.

1) If you have a MAtron/Patron, would they take precedence(sp?) over the other gods? I'm not saying ignore the others, of course.

2) is it okay if you feel you have more of a relationship with some of the gods over others? Like, i seem to be developing a relationship with Artemis, Hermes, and Pan. Is this normal?

 

[Opalescent_violet_14]

I must say that that helps a lot. I was just wondering about Athena and Artemis because they were interesting to me. However, I seem to focusing mainly on goddesses rather than gods.... and it's not like I hate men or anything. It's just that many of the gods are as interesting and complex as the goddesses. I especially like Athena, Artemis, and Demeter, but mainly Artemis. By the way, it's cool that you're a twin nuri.