Great British Politics.

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Nebelstern

I have to say, this angered me a lot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4423678.stm

Placing blame on his own party, eh? Well I think this is just a perfect example of how a Conviction Prime Minister can be warped into a Egotist. His arrogance irritates me more than anything, mainly because the party even broadly share the same ideology (I say broadly, I know there are still hardcore lefties in there still).

Almost makes you want to feel sorry for the Labour rebels.

when i read that earlyer on today i thought it was more of an attack on the whole house. but i cant say i am surprised.. i was expecting something like this. 3nodding  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Nebelstern

Ah, I also propose this guild has a Politics Subforum.
I mean, what did we fight for only months ago? wink

i considered sparking up a discussion about the possibibly of a Pol sub! glad you brought it up, i forgot about it. xd
i second the gentleman's proposal.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4424370.stm

now if i where to become PM i would evolve the parliaments not only let English MP's vote for English policy...

decentralisation = the fall of the Union  

[Invictus_88]

Mr. Bono Vox

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4424370.stm

now if i where to become PM i would evolve the parliaments not only let English MP's vote for English policy...

decentralisation = the fall of the Union

Divided we fall, perhaps.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Invictus_88

Mr. Bono Vox

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4424370.stm

now if i where to become PM i would evolve the parliaments not only let English MP's vote for English policy...

decentralisation = the fall of the Union

Divided we fall, perhaps.

indeed. what chance with Wales have on their own? their industery has gone to pot as far as i know. and 'bout Northern Ireland? lose it to terrorists? neutral  

[Nebelstern]

Mr. Bono Vox

Nebelstern

Ah, I also propose this guild has a Politics Subforum.
I mean, what did we fight for only months ago? wink

i considered sparking up a discussion about the possibibly of a Pol sub! glad you brought it up, i forgot about it. xd
i second the gentleman's proposal.

Hear hear!
My, I like saying that. xd  

[Invictus_88]

Nebelstern

Mr. Bono Vox

Nebelstern

Ah, I also propose this guild has a Politics Subforum.
I mean, what did we fight for only months ago? wink

i considered sparking up a discussion about the possibibly of a Pol sub! glad you brought it up, i forgot about it. xd
i second the gentleman's proposal.

Hear hear!
My, I like saying that. xd

Stick at your literature, and you may find yourself elevated to the House of Lords.

At which point you can use both shouting and eloquence as your discerning judgment dictates.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Invictus_88

Nebelstern

Mr. Bono Vox

Nebelstern

Ah, I also propose this guild has a Politics Subforum.
I mean, what did we fight for only months ago? wink

i considered sparking up a discussion about the possibibly of a Pol sub! glad you brought it up, i forgot about it. xd
i second the gentleman's proposal.

Hear hear!
My, I like saying that. xd

Stick at your literature, and you may find yourself elevated to the House of Lords.

At which point you can use both shouting and eloquence as your discerning judgment dictates.

if there is a Lords by that time... so what about it invictus? pol sub?  

[Invictus_88]

Mr. Bono Vox

Invictus_88

Nebelstern

Mr. Bono Vox

Nebelstern

Ah, I also propose this guild has a Politics Subforum.
I mean, what did we fight for only months ago? wink

i considered sparking up a discussion about the possibibly of a Pol sub! glad you brought it up, i forgot about it. xd
i second the gentleman's proposal.

Hear hear!
My, I like saying that. xd

Stick at your literature, and you may find yourself elevated to the House of Lords.

At which point you can use both shouting and eloquence as your discerning judgment dictates.

if there is a Lords by that time... so what about it invictus? pol sub?

The Lords can't fall, it would be the end of practical democracy in Britain. If they go that far then I may well be driven to quite un-British action in order to counter it.

Pol sub? Just posted, it's on the sticky.  

[Nebelstern]

I saw we keep the Lords, but reform it so that it is partially electoral. Mainly for the reason that, they get the ultimate say on legislation tweaks, and it seems unfair that they are appointed without the mandate of the people.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Invictus_88

Mr. Bono Vox

Invictus_88

Nebelstern

Mr. Bono Vox

Nebelstern

Ah, I also propose this guild has a Politics Subforum.
I mean, what did we fight for only months ago? wink

i considered sparking up a discussion about the possibibly of a Pol sub! glad you brought it up, i forgot about it. xd
i second the gentleman's proposal.

Hear hear!
My, I like saying that. xd

Stick at your literature, and you may find yourself elevated to the House of Lords.

At which point you can use both shouting and eloquence as your discerning judgment dictates.

if there is a Lords by that time... so what about it invictus? pol sub?

The Lords can't fall, it would be the end of practical democracy in Britain. If they go that far then I may well be driven to quite un-British action in order to counter it.

Pol sub? Just posted, it's on the sticky.

as far as i know there has been discussions about it Blair wants to get rid of it. and the reasons he would give is because it is undemocratic and so on.. i mean the lords has been one major pain in blairs side since he came to power.  

[Invictus_88]

Nebelstern

I saw we keep the Lords, but reform it so that it is partially electoral. Mainly for the reason that, they get the ultimate say on legislation tweaks, and it seems unfair that they are appointed without the mandate of the people.

No.

To make it elected by the masses would make it pointless, simply a superfluous teir of the Commons. An abhorrent and dangerous idea.

The standard of debate in the upper house is consistently higher than that in the Commons, the breadth of knowledge and background is more varied also, with academics, intellectuals, creators, progressives and traditionalists from varied backgrounds.

The democratic process and the discussion of ideas can occur more freely in the Lords. A place where people are not subject to (often misguided) populism, the whips and from petty counter-party skirmishes.

We need reform, yes. However making them "accountable to the people" is a nasty and chokingly New Labour idea. It will homogenise the Lords and strip it of it's essential virtues. For a start, the reform should completely end the power of the PM to appoint cronies into the Lords, it is not conducive to the selection of intelligent, free-minded and principled individuals.

It should be chosen by committee, with candidates put forward by university bodies, research groups, the arts world and all members of government but chosen by a committee comprising senior members of the lords and venerable members of past governments. It will act under the authority of the monarch but would be constantly subject to change and amendment and situations change.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Invictus_88

Nebelstern

I saw we keep the Lords, but reform it so that it is partially electoral. Mainly for the reason that, they get the ultimate say on legislation tweaks, and it seems unfair that they are appointed without the mandate of the people.

No.

To make it elected by the masses would make it pointless, simply a superfluous teir of the Commons. An abhorrent and dangerous idea.

The standard of debate in the upper house is consistently higher than that in the Commons, the breadth of knowledge and background is more varied also, with academics, intellectuals, creators, progressives and traditionalists from varied backgrounds.

The democratic process and the discussion of ideas can occur more freely in the Lords. A place where people are not subject to (often misguided) populism, the whips and from petty counter-party skirmishes.

We need reform, yes. However making them "accountable to the people" is a nasty and chokingly New Labour idea. It will homogenise the Lords and strip it of it's essential virtues. For a start, the reform should completely end the power of the PM to appoint cronies into the Lords, it is not conducive to the selection of intelligent, free-minded and principled individuals.

It should be chosen by committee, with candidates put forward by university bodies, research groups, the arts world and all members of government but chosen by a committee comprising senior members of the lords and venerable members of past governments. It will act under the authority of the monarch but would be constantly subject to change and amendment and situations change.

i must say.. i was never a fan of elections to the Lords.. but i never really thought of reforming it.. but i would be in favour of your ideas.  

[Invictus_88]

I'm glad you think my ideas make sense, i do try but then there's always improvement to be done and other people to persuade..


Also, I found some poll results about the two Davids. It's an ICM/Sunday Telegraph poll..


If David Davis and Gordon Brown were leaders of their respective parties then 41% of people would vote Labour and 33% Tory.

If David Cameron were in his place, 41% would vote labour and 34% Tory.

As against 49% of voters who said that their opinion of the Tory party would remain the same regardless of which leader they chose.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

hm.. not encouraging.. but it is a start, i mean cameron says he will change the party, reform it and so on, make it electable again. when he says that it does maybe we can look seriously at polls like that.