Draconic Ritual Q&A ^.=.^

[Molly Mollusca]

Kashaku-Tatsu

read up... it's an extension off of dragons being the focal point for being "grey" because they are both good and evil.... That is the exact phrasing I have heard and been taught through out several systems. It's a representation to show how the unvierse's energies work, instead of using the other known symbol of ying yang...

Wait, I thought we were talking about the color of magic and now it is suddenly about dragon colors? eek I'm so confused!

Anyway Yin Yang is black and white, not grey.  

[X C L S I O R]

maenad nuri

Kashaku-Tatsu

All of this flaming begun over something as small as spelling of a term? Seriously? A lot of "correct spellings", etc almost seem regional from what I've noticed in talking with a lot of pagans around the world.

We have no way of truly knowing if any of the world's paths in any era is truly right about how the religious practice should be. Everything was given to them from a deity and passed down (mostly verbally through generations), eventually written down and accepted as truth.

We can't simply discuss or celebrate the fact that there is another who is following a pagan path, but sit and flame with "holier than thou" attitudes cause of a semantic? lol amazing how forums end up

From what I am gathering, the actual flaming really began with Dori-Ryuu setting himself up as an authority, while making some common mistakes. When challenged on that authority, and indeed, the nature of the religion (and yes, the term magick), his response was not to respond to those challenged, but to whine about how we weren't accepting what he was saying.

Also, there has been derailing going into druidism and ADF (and on this, I will only say, that if the ADF changed their name and focused more on the indo-european semi-reconstrution that many of their members do, things would be much better. Also, I really do like Greer's A World Full of Gods, but it's a philosophy book, and not about ADF), others about the term magick, etc.

Currently, Dori-Ryuu is being asked for proof about his particular path. Why? Because we've seen this sort of claim before. Someone says they've been following a family tradition and wants to share it. It's always been in the family for generations, but when asked specifics, it either reads like general neopaganism, or some crackpot theories tied together. Then, when asked for proof of this -- it suddenly cannot be shared.

Dori-Ryuu hasn't really shared anything about his tradition. I would recommend that he does, otherwise this topic is just going to get worse and I will take action against it. Dori -- go to sleep, and then come back, and be ready to respond honestly. I have a feeling that your 4 hours of sleep is affecting your temper even more than your spelling.

Id have to agree with that. I am very drained right now. and have probably smoked more cigarettes then i should have just to stay up. I have shared a bit above. Hopefully it isnt taken as a crack theory. And im sure once i get some sleep i will be more than willing to explain with more depth and...grammar?  

[X C L S I O R]

Molly Mollusca

Kashaku-Tatsu

read up... it's an extension off of dragons being the focal point for being "grey" because they are both good and evil.... That is the exact phrasing I have heard and been taught through out several systems. It's a representation to show how the unvierse's energies work, instead of using the other known symbol of ying yang...

Wait, I thought we were talking about the color of magic and now it is suddenly about dragon colors? eek I'm so confused!

Anyway Yin Yang is black and white, not grey.

i think what she is saying is that the theory of yin yang is every good has evil and every evil has good, you cant have one without the other is the same  

[Kashaku-Tatsu]

Mae, I appreciate your calm response to my post smile

I am working on putting some of the specifics of the path into a site, but with work demands it's going very slow. I post a lot of it to another pagan forum. Between work and art competitions I have been left with little time to put the contents of my grimoire online. But it's slowly in the works. ^_^

(btw Dori's wife ^-^)  

[Molly Mollusca]

Thank you Nuri. whee  

[maenad nuri]

Molly Mollusca

Thank you Nuri. whee

Nice, but with teeth. Lucky them that I can put aside my anger at insulting my friends while making posts with the captain hat on.

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I am working on putting some of the specifics of the path into a site, but with work demands it's going very slow. I post a lot of it to another pagan forum. Between work and art competitions I have been left with little time to put the contents of my grimoire online. But it's slowly in the works. ^_^

Might I recommend that maybe this wasn't the best time then for your husband to be presenting his claims, before he can have the proof to back him up.

I understand other demands (hell, between work and taking care of my husbands health, a lot of projects have been put on the backburner) but you can't drop the ball like that. Might I suggest putting together a pathways topic when you have the information.  

[Kashaku-Tatsu]

I will def do that, I have many different forums waiting on some of the information...

We entertain questions to the path a lil easier when they are asked instead of asked with a sarcastic tone...(I realize we can't convey tone as well through forums except through wording things precisely or explaining if anything could sound condescending. I've had to put "it's been a rough day at work so sorry if I come off harsh" in forums before to try to avoid any kind of argument from brewing)

Through out my studies I (personally) have never been one to use the net too much and didnt like the idea of putting information from my grimoire online for the world to see... But in the many people I know who follow a similar path as we do, I figure putting everything but the specific rituals I use couldn't hurt lol

And sidebar: TY hun for clarifying that, I was trying to quickly respond while trying to get the paperwork done lol

Sorry to hear of your husband's health issues, I hope healing will come quickly to him.  

[maenad nuri]

Kashaku-Tatsu

I will def do that, I have many different forums waiting on some of the information...

We entertain questions to the path a lil easier when they are asked instead of asked with a sarcastic tone...(I realize we can't convey tone as well through forums except through wording things precisely or explaining if anything could sound condescending. I've had to put "it's been a rough day at work so sorry if I come off harsh" in forums before to try to avoid any kind of argument from brewing)

We value bluntness here. We don't tend to crouch our questions with nice qualifiers --but quite frankly, the rudeness more started with your husband, with the mr ilovejesus comment (intended as an insult. We value Christianity around here as well.).

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Through out my studies I (personally) have never been one to use the net too much and didnt like the idea of putting information from my grimoire online for the world to see... But in the many people I know who follow a similar path as we do, I figure putting everything but the specific rituals I use couldn't hurt lol

There are ways to make it semi-private, so that you, at least, intitally only share with the people you want to share it with.

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Sorry to hear of your husband's health issues, I hope healing will come quickly to him.

Thank you. He's Type 1 diabetic, so it's never going away, but hopefully he can get it back under full control soon.  

[Kashaku-Tatsu]

to be honest the "Then why haven't you been reduced to coke upon the floor?" comment he wrote in response to his initial post was a bit rude. Hell I took slight offense to it and didn't even know what it was said in response to at first. It still slightly confuses me, idk if it's the lack of sleep or hurrying to post at work... either way I don't see how it was a viable non-rude comment to working with dragons in ritual.  

[maenad nuri]

Kashaku-Tatsu

to be honest the "Then why haven't you been reduced to coke upon the floor?" comment he wrote in response to his initial post was a bit rude. Hell I took slight offense to it and didn't even know what it was said in response to at first. It still slightly confuses me, idk if it's the lack of sleep or hurrying to post at work... either way I don't see how it was a viable non-rude comment to working with dragons in ritual.

Most of the time, dragons are mean, nasty creatures, and in most mythology --- not the nicest to humans. Basically, she was asking why your husband hadn't been reduced to ashes.

It made absolute sense to me. Dragons (or similar) in my mythos isn't exactly friend to humanity.  

[Kashaku-Tatsu]

A lot of deities through out time were not nice to humans, like with them, the dragons will work with us if given the proper respect. If you offend then you will feel it in your life. The best description of how the dragons are with our path is "polytheistic". Instead of viewing the dragons as representations of something inside us or big lizards roaming the earth, we see them more as individual Astral beings who work to keep the universe running (not too far off from gods of other religions)

I have put a lot of study into finding lore to understand the path a bit more (mostly a "habit", if u will, from my recon days as well as 'book worm' days of school). I have found a good site for dragon lore, the serene dragon. You almost have to delve into cultural studies to unearth their views on dragons, ie the Asian cultures, esp the Chinese.

The dragon I work with (as my patron) is Ourorborus, the dragon who lies with his tail in his mouth, symbolic of life/death/rebirth. (also alchemist symbol of eternal life cycles). As in all religious/spiritual paths we have our share of personal experiences to enhance what we can find in books. (I will include personal and book findings in the site when i get it done) And like he stated previously, we look to Tiamat as a "mother goddess" role cause of her affiliations with harvest/fertility, her description as a dragon and the creation of the dragons. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying she is a loving, doting mother, but we give her the respect of a matriarch of a family. Another dragon we work with is the Amphesbaena. Due to his vigilance from having a head on either end, we look to him as a guardian of sorts. We have personal guides/guardian dragons we work with. (ones who answer our request to learn from dragons, more or less like in polytheistic cultures where you ask for a patron or guide and one steps forth). Just a few examples of how specific dragons fit into our path.

On a personal level I have worked with many nasty tempered deities and have gotten my fair share of backlashes from doing stupid things, one special lashing was from the Morrigan when I dare call her and the "outdwellers" in the same ritual in my celtic heathen days. o.O

Dragons are not alone in the realm of beings known to have tempers, so if the other systems have people who follow those beings and still live it shouldn't be that far of a stretch that draconic practitioners can do the same smile Alas I am off of work and heading to bed so any dragging out of the books will have to wait heh  

[X C L S I O R]

Thank you, Dear

Guess she is better at typing and posting than I am when tired.

But, You put that perfectly.  

[CuAnnan]

Kashaku-Tatsu

we see them more as individual Astral beings who work to keep the universe running (not too far off from gods of other religions)

Statements like that will get you into trouble here.
You don't seem to understand what the problem is.
When you make a generalised sweeping statement, it iritates people.
My gods do not work to keep the universe running. The universe runs quite well on its own.

Kashaku-Tatsu

On a personal level I have worked with many nasty tempered deities and have gotten my fair share of backlashes from doing stupid things, one special lashing was from the Morrigan when I dare call her and the "outdwellers" in the same ritual in my celtic heathen days. o.O

You never worked with the Morrigan and never received a lashing from her.
Firstly, the Morrigan is a title, not a person.
Secondly, you are a gall. The Morrigan is tied to this country.
Thirdly, for someone who claims research is important, you seem to have done little. Celtic heathen makes about as much sense as "a heathen of the people who are either greek or roman".
Finally, using the term heathen to describe gaelic or brythonic or what-have-you religious practices is culturally invalid.  

[Lance Kibagari]

CuAnnan

Finally, using the term heathen to describe gaelic or brythonic or what-have-you religious practices is culturally invalid.

Isn't the term heathen usually used for Asatruar or other Norse pagans?  

[X C L S I O R]

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Statements like that will get you into trouble here.

There is nothing wrong with believing that the universe continues to turn because of the influence of any supreme being(s). Despite what you want to think, there are not so few religions that believe this, in fact, A LOT do believe this, believe it or not.

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My gods do not work to keep the universe running. The universe runs quite well on its own.

I don't believe she said anything about your gods or what they do? In fact, I don't believe she was speaking to you directly at all.

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You never worked with the Morrigan and never received a lashing from her.

The fact that you would even post this is amazing. You have no idea what one person has done in his/her life, or who they worked with as far as their own personal pantheon. -smh-

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Firstly, the Morrigan is a title, not a person.

Where exactly did she state the Morrigan was a name of a person? If she was calling the Morrigan as a name, wouldn't she leave out "THE" in THE Morrigan? Just a thought...