Welcome to the Rehab Center

[Bastemhet]

Yugure the Trickster

While unintiated Wiccans may have cultural misappropriation down to a fine art, my use of the term 'shamanism' isn't in the same vein.

What do uninitiated Wiccans have to do with this? confused

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I use it in the sense that Inaria is inspired by the behaviour of tribal shamans, specifically in northern Europe. They serve their community as in the mundane sense as a leader, advisor, doctor and councellor, and in the spiritual sense as protector, teacher, priest and healer.

What I'm trying to get it as that much of shamanic practice cannot be divorced from their cultural context. Has the kami you are working with approved of your taking hir out of hir cultural context and applying hir to a land hir has no connection with? Does this not smack of privilege? Have you ever been to Japan? Do you think this xenophobic culture would appreciate a foreigner adopting some of its Shinto beliefs piecemeal (as I only see the name of one kami and not how zie relates to the rest of what you mention)? How do you account for impurity you might have for incorrect actions you take?

Basically, there a lot of questions that can come up for someone who takes from indigenous religions and tries to create their own practice. One of the problems is privilege- privilege of the person not of the culture taking from it. How do you ameliorate this with your own practice?

Can you tell me the difference between core and non-core shamanism?

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Inarian Urban Shamanism is a modern take on a tried and true practice. I use it in the same mode as 'pagan', as I doubt anyone on this forum is a pagan in the original sense of the word. Or are you all accessing the internet via puddles in your forest huts?

Pagan means follower of a non-Abrahamic religion, so yes, there are a bunch of people here who are technically pagan but don't choose to self-identify against a religion that they don't practice.  

[Cyber-Jamie]

What does ancient and outdated shamanism have to do with this? That is sort of my point. I'm not using any existing shamanic practices, or even implying that my beliefs and practices are related to those that came before. I'm applying the word to a new, but similar, style of praxis.

And I'm not using Inari as anything. I'm hold Him/her as an example. I don't worship Inari any more than I worship Janis Joplin or Keith Richards. So there is no 'taking hir out of hir cultural context'. You're making assumptions in an attempt to anger me and force me to make a mistake in my writing, which you'll then use to claim that my core beliefs are unworkable.

Either that or you're just not reading my entire posts.  

[Bastemhet]

Yugure the Trickster

What does ancient and outdated shamanism have to do with this? That is sort of my point. I'm not using any existing shamanic practices, or even implying that my beliefs and practices are related to those that came before. I'm applying the word to a new, but similar, style of praxis.

Ancient and outdated...? As far as I can tell there are still cultural groups that have shamanic practices that are done today. Shinto from what I can tell is described as having roots in shamanic practices, and you also mentioned tribal shamans from northern Europe and described their practices as if that was also what you were doing. If these "ancient and outdated practices" are not what you're doing, then why mention them in the first place?

How is it similar if not in the way that you've already mentioned?

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And I'm not using Inari as anything. I'm hold Him/her as an example. I don't worship Inari any more than I worship Janis Joplin or Keith Richards. So there is no 'taking hir out of hir cultural context'. You're making assumptions in an attempt to anger me and force me to make a mistake in my writing, which you'll then use to claim that my core beliefs are unworkable.

Calling your practice Inarian Urban Shamanism and then using Inari as an example (of what?) while not actually worshipping Inari is misleading. If you name your practice after Inari then I assume you work with Inari. But thank you for clarifying. I would like to say, though, that you're making this about you when it's not. I've only asked questions for the sake of the cultures you might be misrepresenting. One thing you need to know about this guild is that questioning is expected. If it disturbs you to have to explain your beliefs, much less defend them, you probably won't find what you're seeking here.  

[Bastemhet]

Welcome, Beorc Kano, to the guild. smile I think the word you were looking for is "syncretism." Syncretism or eclecticism I think is a completely valid spiritual path provided that the disparate ideas from cultures or religions you take from are able to coexist without a problem, e.g. ritual practices that involve gods/goddesses of different religions that aren't anathema to each other. What do you mean by a religion being "right" or not being "completely right"?  

[Cyber-Jamie]

You did read my original post, right? All the way through? I don't see how you mistook

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It's based around the concept of the Shinto ookami Inari being the perfect example of what Humanity can be...

for an implication that I worshipped Him/Her.

I also didn't word what I meant about shamanism properly. When I mentioned northern European shamans, I meant to indicate that they cultural position was my inspiration, not them as a whole.

Also, by "ancient and outdated" I mean that it doesn't fit into modern western society. I imagine it fits perfectly into the society it developped in, obviously, and the cultures have evolved around them. But Western civilisation isn't one of these cultures.  

[Calelith]

Yugure the Trickster

Also, by "ancient and outdated" I mean that it doesn't fit into modern western society. I imagine it fits perfectly into the society it developped in, obviously, and the cultures have evolved around them. But Western civilisation isn't one of these cultures.

Then why worship it if you're not part of one of those civilizations?

 

[Bastemhet]

Yugure the Trickster

You did read my original post, right? All the way through? I don't see how you mistook

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It's based around the concept of the Shinto ookami Inari being the perfect example of what Humanity can be...

for an implication that I worshipped Him/Her.

I am trying to get you to answer why you use a concept from a foreign culture for your Western practice, and why this is not an act of privilege, especially when there are other concepts tied to this kami such as purity that you may or may not be acknowledging that could possibly piss this kami off, let alone hir devotees.

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I also didn't word what I meant about shamanism properly. When I mentioned northern European shamans, I meant to indicate that they cultural position was my inspiration, not them as a whole.

Then why use the same word they do to describe themselves if what you are doing is not what they are doing?

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Also, by "ancient and outdated" I mean that it doesn't fit into modern western society. I imagine it fits perfectly into the society it developped in, obviously, and the cultures have evolved around them. But Western civilisation isn't one of these cultures.

How do you then ameliorate your usage of an ancient concept in a society that is living today and still has shinto practice with your Western context/practice?  

[Bastemhet]

Beorc Kano

There is no conflict of gods/goddesses, as, in my belief, I see Existence itself as the Divine. All other pantheons are cultural interpretations of this. I prefer not to try to bind the Creator with a culture/gender/what have you. My belief has a core concept that energy is energy is energy, and ritual is merely a method for manipulating said energy. in this manner I can work my Norse Runes and Native American Shamanistic practices together without conflict.

Existence is Divine? Can you please elaborate? Which tribe of Native Americans are you pulling your practice from? What are your sources for your shamanic practice?  

[Cyber-Jamie]

You people don't actually read anything that's written, do you. You just decided on what you think someone is meaning to say and run with it. How...fluffy.  

[Calelith]

Yugure the Trickster

You people don't actually read anything that's written, do you. You just decided on what you think someone is meaning to say and run with it. How...fluffy.

Or do you just not like people questioning you, opening you up to the possibility of you being the fluffy one?

 

[Bastemhet]

Beorc Kano

My understanding and concept of the Divine is that Existence, in and of itself, the fact that things Are, is the nature of the Divine. It's difficult to really elaborate fully on this concept, as I have not ever seen it's like before, but there is a post I made on the topic on another venue... Let me see if I can dig it up and quote it here.

I read everything. But I can't tell why you're equating existence with God. And which God?

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As for which tribes do I draw my shamanism from, well, to be quite honest, just as with the rest of my spirituality, there is no one source. there are elements of Cherokee (to which I am descent from, my grandmother on my fathers side being full blooded Cherokee), Apache, Yurok, and Hoopa, four tribes that i have spent a decent time around. they range from the Midwest, to the Southwest, to the Pacific Northwest of California, where I grew up. Mainly, I incorporate aspects of tribal herbology, drumming, some chanting (not much... I'm not much of a singer/chanter myself...), and spirit communion.

Interesting. Are you training under anyone to be a shaman?  

[Bastemhet]

Yugure the Trickster

You people don't actually read anything that's written, do you. You just decided on what you think someone is meaning to say and run with it. How...fluffy.

How many posts did that take? Did I beat any records?