Welcome to the Rehab Center

[kyndryana3]

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The problem that I have is the gap between the assumption that you could categorize your religion as an umbrella term.

I use pagan in the same way I might say that I am Asian. To be more specific I am half-Chinese, but I still qualify as Asian.

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Freyja and Odin, and I know I am very much still in the process of learning and really getting a good grasp on my personal faith. Faith has been something I have struggled with since grade school. My heart may lead me, but my mind struggles with a lot of the concepts and I am slowly working on piecing things together.

Why are you setting these two up as polar opposites? And why limit the sum of the Aesir and Vanir to these two to begin with?

I guess I would say that it feels like they are polar opposites at times. That there are things that I understand on a more visceral level, but can't quite get my mind around the logic of it, and vice versa. It is hard for me to accept things on faith when I can't even express in words why I feel the way I do (which is somewhat of a frustrating fact because I do believe that some things don't express well in words at all).

As far as the limiting of the Aesir and Vanir, while I consider Freyja and Odin my patrons, I do not consider them the only deities in existence, nor the only ones that I would work with...just that they are the ones I devote myself the most to.

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I originally encountered the Sabbats in "A Witches' Bible" by the Farrar's. I've expanded on the concept since then, and am really interested in the many different cycles that can be expressed throughout the progression of the year (not only the seasonal progression, but some of the God and Goddess interactions: the Sun child being born and growing to adulthood and then being sacrificed, the interaction between the Lord and Lady at different points in the year, the wild hunt). I don't particularly favor any single cultural approach, but enjoy examining how different people celebrate the different festivals and how they interconnect. It's a bit of a hodgepodge, I know, but it seems to work for me.

You're not contextualizing Odin and Freya in this are you?

If by contextualizing you mean am I inserting Odin and Freyja into roles like that of the sun child, then no, I am not.

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So, if someone decided to rape your son in the name of Wicca, you wouldn't consider it wrong?

Personally, I can think of no situation where I would consider rape to be an appropriate action. Theoretically if someone absolutely believed that the gods told them they must rape someone in order to (for example) save the human race from extinction, I guess it might be argued that someone could feel justified in their actions. Of course, it could also be argued that they were insane (depending on why they believed what they believed).

I don't have to like anyone else's choices though. There are a lot of things that people do around me that I personally think are not appropriate actions. I see a lot of people behave horribly because they feel that there will be no repercussions (especially on line, where I have encountered a lot of people who are blatantly insulting and mean, because they can be).  

[TeaDidikai]

kyndryana3

I use pagan in the same way I might say that I am Asian. To be more specific I am half-Chinese, but I still qualify as Asian.

Which half? Top or bottom?

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I guess I would say that it feels like they are polar opposites at times.

For heavens sake why?!

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As far as the limiting of the Aesir and Vanir, while I consider Freyja and Odin my patrons, I do not consider them the only deities in existence, nor the only ones that I would work with...just that they are the ones I devote myself the most to.

Why?

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If by contextualizing you mean am I inserting Odin and Freyja into roles like that of the sun child, then no, I am not.

Small favors I suppose.

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Personally, I can think of no situation where I would consider rape to be an appropriate action. Theoretically if someone absolutely believed that the gods told them they must rape someone in order to (for example) save the human race from extinction, I guess it might be argued that someone could feel justified in their actions. Of course, it could also be argued that they were insane (depending on why they believed what they believed).

I don't have to like anyone else's choices though. There are a lot of things that people do around me that I personally think are not appropriate actions. I see a lot of people behave horribly because they feel that there will be no repercussions (especially on line, where I have encountered a lot of people who are blatantly insulting and mean, because they can be).

So... it's not wrong for people to rape your son because they feel their gods want them to teach him about sex as soon as he hits puberty.

Wow.  

[Aino Ailill]

TeaDidikai

kyndryana3

Personally, I can think of no situation where I would consider rape to be an appropriate action. Theoretically if someone absolutely believed that the gods told them they must rape someone in order to (for example) save the human race from extinction, I guess it might be argued that someone could feel justified in their actions. Of course, it could also be argued that they were insane (depending on why they believed what they believed).

I don't have to like anyone else's choices though. There are a lot of things that people do around me that I personally think are not appropriate actions. I see a lot of people behave horribly because they feel that there will be no repercussions (especially on line, where I have encountered a lot of people who are blatantly insulting and mean, because they can be).

So... it's not wrong for people to rape your son because they feel their gods want them to teach him about sex as soon as he hits puberty.

Wow.

...how does this conclusion follow what was typed?  

[TeaDidikai]

Aino Ailill

...how does this conclusion follow what was typed?

Because it doesn't alter the initial premise that there isn't a right or wrong to be applied.

kyndryana3

I don't really think of things in terms of right and wrong, but rather in terms of "what is the price of this action".

I guess if the price of the rape of her son is justified in the eyes of people like the Frostians or other such groups, even though a critical evaluation by even a basic linguistic framework would show how that it is wrong, it isn't.

The joys of being "practical" instead of moral I suppose.  

[kyndryana3]

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To be more specific I am half-Chinese, but I still qualify as Asian.

Which half? Top or bottom?

The inside half smile

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I guess if the price of the rape of her son is justified in the eyes of people like the Frostians or other such groups, even though a critical evaluation by even a basic linguistic framework would show how that it is wrong, it isn't.

Even though one group of people might find an action justified, other groups might not. This is one of the main reasons why I don't like a lot of the common "here is a list of things that are wrong" morality systems. Many times, if you have two people from two different groups they have vastly different ideas of what is right and wrong, whether they are political groups, religious groups or cultural groups.  

[TeaDidikai]

kyndryana3

The inside half smile

Oooh. Spiff. Is this measured by weight or volume and are the internal organs divided up proportionally?

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Even though one group of people might find an action justified, other groups might not. This is one of the main reasons why I don't like a lot of the common "here is a list of things that are wrong" morality systems. Many times, if you have two people from two different groups they have vastly different ideas of what is right and wrong, whether they are political groups, religious groups or cultural groups.

Of course. And this is the problem with your perspective. This is why, on a fundamental rational level you are wrong.

I pray that you never find yourself in a position where your irrational fear of judgment and unwillingness to take a stand against the moral evils in this world puts your son in danger. For his sake, surely not for yours.  

[kyndryana3]

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Is this measured by weight or volume and are the internal organs divided up proportionally?

Divided by their medicinal qualities of course smile

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I pray that you never find yourself in a position where your irrational fear of judgment and unwillingness to take a stand against the moral evils in this world puts your son in danger. For his sake, surely not for yours.

Ah, but I never said I wouldn't be willing to act to protect the people I care about...rather the contrary, I am more likely to take actions that might be considered morally questionable if/when the people near and dear to me are threatened.  

[TeaDidikai]

kyndryana3

Divided by their medicinal qualities of course smile

Translation: "My heritage includes Chinese ancestors and I don't care if I'm not Chinese in reality, because claiming to be something justifies my need for being special."

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Ah, but I never said I wouldn't be willing to act to protect the people I care about...rather the contrary, I am more likely to take actions that might be considered morally questionable if/when the people near and dear to me are threatened.

Here's the thing. You're either a liar and a hypocrite who intentionally uses subjective morality as a surface justification for their actions to avoid having to stand up for what you do believe in- in which case, well, intellectual dishonesty, lies and hypocrisy do not a moral standard make or you actually believe the s**t you say.
I've seen a mother give her little girl over to be raped because the "subjective morality" argument that was issued by her HP made sense.

Quite frankly, if you don't have a moral direction for yourself, how the ******** are you going to do right by a child in teaching them theirs.
The less dramatic examples of this kind of parenting I have seen don't directly involve child rape, but instead instill a sense in the child that other people's moral framework, when argued convincingly are more important than what the child internally senses as right. But hey- when you teach the child there is no right or wrong, and they have feelings that go unvalidated, of course there's going to be confusion and harm.

By FRIGG, may your child be spared you.  

[kyndryana3]

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Translation: "My heritage includes Chinese ancestors and I don't care if I'm not Chinese in reality, because claiming to be something justifies my need for being special."

Or, it could be that I was trying to make a joke (and obviously failing) *shrug

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instill a sense in the child that other people's moral framework, when argued convincingly are more important than what the child internally senses as right.

I think I missed the part where I said that I follow what other people argue convincingly.

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I consider myself a follower of what is practical. I don't really think of things in terms of right and wrong, but rather in terms of "what is the price of this action". I fully believe that there are some things that are worth the price, even when it is a heavy one to pay.

I, can not, control the actions of others. I can only control my own actions. I CAN react to others actions, and will do so when I feel the need. I don't see this as being the same as avoiding having to stand up for what I believe in.

I am not sure exactly how I gave off the impression that I would, in any way, allow someone to harm my son.  

[TeaDidikai]

kyndryana3

Or, it could be that I was trying to make a joke (and obviously failing) *shrug*

I don't find Race-informed Entitlement to be funny.

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I think I missed the part where I said that I follow what other people argue convincingly.

It was pretty much outlined in that you could conceive that rape of your child could ever be justified.

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I, can not, control the actions of others.

Overuse of the comma aside, you can bloody well control the actions of others through legal, social and other such means.

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I don't see this as being the same as avoiding having to stand up for what I believe in.

In so much that you ignore language and morality in favor of personal masturbation, it kinda does involve avoiding for standing up for what you believe in, unless of course you are backpeddling- which this really reads as.

Perhaps it would be better to simply be more thoughtful in what you say.

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I am not sure exactly how I gave off the impression that I would, in any way, allow someone to harm my son.

It's a byproduct of you allowing justification for it.  

[maenad nuri]

Tea: Honey before vinegar in the welcome topic. I'd like to see more people after introducing themselves actually participating in the guild.

The welcome topic is not the place for trial by fire.  

[TeaDidikai]

maenad nuri

Tea: Honey before vinegar in the welcome topic. I'd like to see more people after introducing themselves actually participating in the guild.

The welcome topic is not the place for trial by fire.

I tried honey first.

You seriously don't see how triggering it is for someone to justify the rape of their child?  

[maenad nuri]

TeaDidikai

maenad nuri

Tea: Honey before vinegar in the welcome topic. I'd like to see more people after introducing themselves actually participating in the guild.

The welcome topic is not the place for trial by fire.

I tried honey first.

You seriously don't see how triggering it is for someone to justify the rape of their child?

Which you bought up first. It gets a little triggery for me to have rape brought up all the time in the guild.

Of course, I must be reading something entirely different -- because I see someone saying the action isn't right, but seeing how another might find it justified. Which is not the same as saying it is good or right.  

[TeaDidikai]

maenad nuri

Which is not the same as saying it is good or right.

Which is the problem I have. Justification based on subjective morality rather than actually taking a moral stance against something that's wrong.