In a bad mood? come here and rant till you feel better

[Recursive Paradox]

Celeblin Galadeneryn

Oh, and condescention. Unless you're including that in assholery.

I think condescension is one of the primary supporting pillars of assholery. 3nodding

That being said, I think it's important not to confuse attempts to be nice for actually succeeding in being nice. I've seen some of the M&R regs try to be nice and well success is not a word I would use for the result. x_x

And at the very least, niceness on certain folks looks... weird and creepy. If I ever saw Cu sugar coating and verbally hugging someone in the forum... I'm pretty sure I would check my tea for LSD or something.

Let's face it, some people can only function as nukers. Nothing wrong with that. We just need more folks in the M&R who can balance the equation is all. More Nuri's and Fiddler's basically.  

[patch99329]

TeaDidikai

Myself, I'm sick to death of having my attempts at being nice met with racism, ignorance and assholeary.

What about when people aren't doing any of those things? Or if they are doing so unintentionally?

It's not even so much about making the attempt to be -nice-, more about reacting to the situation appropriately and not being, to be blunt, a c**t about it.

*edit*
For example (note: I am not saying you act like a c**t about this, I was not referring to you) lets look at the G~ word as a slur.
Thats bad, and I acknowledge and understand why it gets to you that people use it. So it should!
But I had no idea at all that it was a slur before I met you, and many people don't. I, and many of these people would NEVER use the term if they knew. But thats the point, they do not know.
They should be corrected, and the reasons explained. But sometimes I have seen people called racist and treated badly for it, which I feel is very unfair as many simply weren't to know. If they did know and continue, then that is a different matter.  

[Wrath of Ezekiel]

I could be balanced, but I'm more of a nurse. ninja sweatdrop  

[Maze]

I.. can't be relied on to stick to one side of the coin.. 8D;

But I'm probably too low on the informed scale to be an effective nuker to begin with. cool  

[Kuroiban]

Recursive Paradox

Let's face it, some people can only function as nukers. Nothing wrong with that. We just need more folks in the M&R who can balance the equation is all. More Nuri's and Fiddler's basically.

I don't know how anyone intelligent manages to stick around in M&R; I found it full of people who were either trolls outright, or were trying very very hard to be perceived as right and correct in every way and would hear nothing else of it.

I've got no problem talking with people and debating, but arguing with people who already "perceive" their own infallibility just makes me want to puke razors.  

[too2sweet]

Until someone blatantly shows me that they are "fluffy", when I post I try to come from the position that maybe they really just don't know. I've found that instantly going in for the kill, doesn't usually work out as well, but "hand-holding" is frustrating as well, because there is a point were it's like "any person with half a brain would get this...why don't you". gonk  

[Kuroiban]

too2sweet

Until someone blatantly shows me that they are "fluffy", when I post I try to come from the position that maybe they really just don't know. I've found that instantly going in for the kill, doesn't usually work out as well, but "hand-holding" is frustrating as well, because there is a point were it's like "any person with half a brain would get this...why don't you". gonk

Informing the ignorant doesn't bother me; it dealing with the self-righteously ignorant that gets to me. stressed

Some people walk in and act like they know everything and all others know nothing. Any disagreement with this assertion is calling up down and down up. That's what drives me nuts.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Recursive Paradox

Quote:

It's something I wish would come back too. I mean, I love most of y'all, but you can be just plain dickish sometimes. It makes me uncomfortable sometimes, and I married an a*****e!

Offhand, I can only think of you, me, Boxy, Vi, patch and maybe two other people who still consistently do the nice EDer thing in the entirety of the M&R. Compared to the multitude of nukers? That's a little troubling.

I feel special! I didn't think anyone even noticed I posted in the M&R.

I'll admit I can be a bad cop/nuker. I chewed someone out up one side and down the other pretty badly yesterday. But he was being pretty...well, someone whom I consider a friend explained to him that he wasn't Wiccan and why and he basically turned around and inferred that she was ignorant scream  

[Taliah]

I tend to lurk in the M&R sometimes, and I come across a lot of threads where you regulars have visited.

I'd like to help more, and I don't mind helping at all. The thing is, I'm not very knowledgeable in too many topics outside the Wicca fluffies. I try where I know what I'm talking about though. Granted, that doesn't happen all that often.  

[maenad nuri]

The problem with a lot of the newer nukers, espcially, besides that they forget to include substance with their anger is that for people like me, it makes me not want to participate.

At all. And eventually, all you are going to have left is bad cops and nukers and there isn't constructive critiquing going on.

I've noticed it going on in my friends too -- that we've gotten complacent in what we know is right, that we'll just cite a book or something and call it proof. It might be, but most people need something more specific than that. It's not proof at that point, it's an appeal to authority.  

[Gho the Girl]

Lately we've been trying to be more of a questioner than a nuker. However, venting does have the draw of a form of catharsis, albeit an unhealthy one.  

[Recursive Paradox]

patch99329

For example (note: I am not saying you act like a c**t about this, I was not referring to you) lets look at the G~ word as a slur.
Thats bad, and I acknowledge and understand why it gets to you that people use it. So it should!
But I had no idea at all that it was a slur before I met you, and many people don't. I, and many of these people would NEVER use the term if they knew. But thats the point, they do not know.
They should be corrected, and the reasons explained. But sometimes I have seen people called racist and treated badly for it, which I feel is very unfair as many simply weren't to know. If they did know and continue, then that is a different matter.

I try to follow the policy of innocent until proven guilty. A person who uses G~ or say, shemale has not been established as a malignant racist/bigot quite yet. If at such point when someone civilly and politely corrects them and explains why those words are not acceptable to the communities they refer to, then one can make inferences about why the words were used based on the response.

I've talked to a few of my friends about the G~ word and about shemale too. Many of them genuinely thought those were the correct labels. It wasn't a case of entitlement (i.e. "I'm entitled to not give a s**t about minorities!") but more a case of having no clue and not knowing where to look to get a clue.

Let's face it, there's a s**t ton of info out there (much of which is conflicting) and many people may have so little exposure to a given community that they don't realize there even is a problem. That is entirely majority privilege but we have to remember that majority privilege is not a purposeful malicious thing. It's simply a consequence of one's place in society. Because someone is a WASP, male and living in a section of America where there is no exposure to Rroma or transgendered folk, doesn't mean they're out to get either group. Until such point as they argue the point without justification or seek to continue to use the slurs post civil correction despite the impact they have, we shouldn't treat them like scum. This really applies to any misuse of words or slur usage.  

[Recursive Paradox]

True Colours of Destiny

I could be balanced, but I'm more of a nurse. ninja sweatdrop

That's kind of a good thing since the balance is tilted towards nukers now... >.>

Kuroiban

I don't know how anyone intelligent manages to stick around in M&R; I found it full of people who were either trolls outright, or were trying very very hard to be perceived as right and correct in every way and would hear nothing else of it.

I've got no problem talking with people and debating, but arguing with people who already "perceive" their own infallibility just makes me want to puke razors.

How many people actually are like that from willful ignorance? And how many are actually just extraordinarily defensive because they came in honestly and innocently questioning and then someone stuck a shotgun down their throat and blew their torso off for having the wrong view?

When people get overly defensive, it can often show itself as fake arrogance. Because when you've been heavily attacked for your viewpoint it makes you afraid to get attacked again. So you try to float your views through sheer chutzpah alone. We create a lot of our own issues in the M&R by training people to be defensive, arrogant assholes to everyone else as the only way to survive. This training also makes it all but impossible to actually concede to someone because your expectation becomes, "this person is just going to rub my face in it".

We know that this is untrue of everyone in this guild, but when outsiders only see the vicious exterior it becomes a very reasonable expectation that conceding won't change this behavior. That's where field nurses come in. We go into a thread after the nukers have forced people past their comfort level and out of their intellectual stagnation and enable those people to concede, learn and absorb the info as their own. We patch up the wounds and tend to them, giving them a gentle face to say, "okay, guys, I was wrong about that. Help me learn better?"

I mean, ********, some of the regs are vicious even to the people who say, "help me learn?" People who are asking an honest to gods question and poorly phrased it get themselves torn a new a*****e. And then we wonder why they refuse to listen to anyone after that.

It's ridiculous.  

[Recursive Paradox]

maenad nuri

The problem with a lot of the newer nukers, espcially, besides that they forget to include substance with their anger is that for people like me, it makes me not want to participate.

At all. And eventually, all you are going to have left is bad cops and nukers and there isn't constructive critiquing going on.

I've noticed it going on in my friends too -- that we've gotten complacent in what we know is right, that we'll just cite a book or something and call it proof. It might be, but most people need something more specific than that. It's not proof at that point, it's an appeal to authority.

This. This this this.

I've seen examples of this happening with some older nukers too. I won't name names. But some of us do get stagnant. We get lazy. We repeat the same old stuff and link the same old links without actually presenting the material in a way that gets it across in the context of the thread or discussion we're in. And while we do that, we shred people. Anyone wondering why people think we're full of s**t or call us trolls so much now?

Does anyone remember when Ananel came back and was so upset about how many people just name drop him and s**t his thesis all over a thread about homosexuality and Christianity? He knows that ******** quote dropping without showing you know one ******** thing about the arguments in question destroys the credibility of the regs of this forum.

It's just, ******** people, I'm so irritated by this that I'm swearing like Celeblin. You know s**t has gone sour when I'm swearing like Celeblin does. >.<