The Vampire Counts

[EliotJamesRookwood]

Micks 109

Hi i am kind of new to warhammer, i have played about 3 game so far with my counts or as i call it "Sir Von Kassers Hord" i find it a fun army to play with.

i would just like to point out that the appenix lists in the back of the book are not leagl army lists as there are not balanced like the main list is, and you also need to get your opponents agreement if you can use one of these lists or not, they are also ment to be fun to play with.
i through i would just make this point as no one else apart from other person has mention this.

Well, I mentioned it, if you mean I'm the other person.  

[Clockwork_Creep]

I was thinking about begining an undead army, and I don't know what I want.
I'm torn between Vampire Counts, and a Chaos army.
If I did get into Vampire, I think I wnat to use the magicy one. Necarchs, right?
What are some advantages and disadvantes of them?  

[Everlasting Chaos]

lord_illpalazzo

I was thinking about begining an undead army, and I don't know what I want.
I'm torn between Vampire Counts, and a Chaos army.
If I did get into Vampire, I think I wnat to use the magicy one. Necarchs, right?
What are some advantages and disadvantes of them?

Well, I'm not sure if you're asking pros vs cons for the Necrarchs or VC in general, so I'll tell you what I know. Bear in mind that I play Empire, so I may be a little off on a few of my points. But I still love the Vampires. xd

The big advantage to Necrarch armies is their magic. Obviously. Take piles of spellcasters (not hard, most Vampire characters can cast spells I think) and use them to raise skeletons/zombies left and right. Maybe throw in a Curse of Years or two to deal with pesky units.

The big advantage to Vampires in general is that they're Undead. Nobody on your end is going to run, and everyone causes fear. Wreaks havoc on puny human/elven minds. Being able to guarentee that any of your spellcasters can raise new units is also a pain in the a**. Your opponent's generally guarenteed to sink some points into anti-magic to try and stop you from flanking them with units that just pop out of the ground. The Black Coach is also a pain in the a**. Damn thing just keeps gaining health...

Disadvantage to Necrarch is that their characters are like paper. No muscle in them or on their skeletal hordes. If you can't keep your spells going off, you're going to have problems.

Disadvantage to Vampires in general is somewhat the same. Most of your units lack any real combat strength, so you NEED to keep raising fresh troops. Being Undead also causes your troops to die when they lose combat, and heaven forbid anything should happen to your general. Complete breakdown when that happens.  

[Lethkhar]

lord_illpalazzo

I was thinking about begining an undead army, and I don't know what I want.
I'm torn between Vampire Counts, and a Chaos army.
If I did get into Vampire, I think I wnat to use the magicy one. Necarchs, right?
What are some advantages and disadvantes of them?

Go with VC. Chaos is overused, especially Tzeentch (the magicky one). VC's are fun.  

[Clockwork_Creep]

I need something taht can beat dwarfs and Lizardmen.
My Dwarf friend doesn't have the anvil of doom, so I can out magic him, which is what i want. I enjoy the magic phase of the game most of all. After going from Khorne (magic is the devil!) to Orcs (Magic is crazy!) I wnat something with a bit more power in the magic department.
So, if VC lose one round of comabt, the squad dies?  

[Everlasting Chaos]

lord_illpalazzo

I need something taht can beat dwarfs and Lizardmen.
My Dwarf friend doesn't have the anvil of doom, so I can out magic him, which is what i want. I enjoy the magic phase of the game most of all. After going from Khorne (magic is the devil!) to Orcs (Magic is crazy!) I wnat something with a bit more power in the magic department.
So, if VC lose one round of comabt, the squad dies?

Not exactly. They take wounds based on how badly they lost. And if you want good reliable magic you'll want TK instead. Once you waste your opponent's dispel dice every spell you cast is guarenteed to go off.  

[EliotJamesRookwood]

Not exactly. They take wounds based on how badly they lost. And if you want good reliable magic you'll want TK instead. Once you waste your opponent's dispel dice every spell you cast is guarenteed to go off.

Against Dwarves and Lizardmen, TK can do alright. However Dwarf players can really screw them over. If you go magic heavy with a TK list, you won't have that much power, and a lot of their stuff is easy to dispel, and vitally important to the running of their army. Keep in mind that TK uses no power dice, and the average Dwarf army is going to have at least 5-6 Dispel dice. Believe me, summoning a unit with invocation of nehek, then charging it in the same turn with Vanhel's Danse Macrabre is a very good thing. If you've already got skeletons in the front, a hit from the side is really going to hurt the average unit of saurus or Dwarves. If you want good heavy horsemen, Black Knights are excellent. They cost 25pts each, with barding or 23 without. They have killing blow, S4(S6 on the charge) and combined with Banner of Barrows Hit on a 3+ regardless of weapon skill or anything else. Hit a flank with that too, and most units are going to fall. You can use Vanhel's Danse Macrabre on them too, to get them into position quickly, or charge in if your close enough.
Now as for the rules of undeath, whatever you loss by, instead of taking a break test, you take that many excess wounds. So if you lose by 2 you lose 2 wounds, no saves of any kind allowed. However, with invocation of nehek that doesn't matter, as you can summon more, in fact you can summon excesses of troops, and it won't cost you anything more. So for instance if you have a unit of 10 skeletons, cast invocation on a 7+, it goes through, then you'll get 2d6 extra skeletons, but the unit will only be worth 10. As a Necrach vampire. you get +1 to casting all spells, and with special bloodline abilities you can increase range of your spells, or add onto them.  

[Everlasting Chaos]

EliotJamesRookwood

Not exactly. They take wounds based on how badly they lost. And if you want good reliable magic you'll want TK instead. Once you waste your opponent's dispel dice every spell you cast is guarenteed to go off.

Against Dwarves and Lizardmen, TK can do alright. However Dwarf players can really screw them over. If you go magic heavy with a TK list, you won't have that much power, and a lot of their stuff is easy to dispel, and vitally important to the running of their army. Keep in mind that TK uses no power dice, and the average Dwarf army is going to have at least 5-6 Dispel dice. Believe me, summoning a unit with invocation of nehek, then charging it in the same turn with Vanhel's Danse Macrabre is a very good thing. If you've already got skeletons in the front, a hit from the side is really going to hurt the average unit of saurus or Dwarves. If you want good heavy horsemen, Black Knights are excellent. They cost 25pts each, with barding or 23 without. They have killing blow, S4(S6 on the charge) and combined with Banner of Barrows Hit on a 3+ regardless of weapon skill or anything else. Hit a flank with that too, and most units are going to fall. You can use Vanhel's Danse Macrabre on them too, to get them into position quickly, or charge in if your close enough.
Now as for the rules of undeath, whatever you loss by, instead of taking a break test, you take that many excess wounds. So if you lose by 2 you lose 2 wounds, no saves of any kind allowed. However, with invocation of nehek that doesn't matter, as you can summon more, in fact you can summon excesses of troops, and it won't cost you anything more. So for instance if you have a unit of 10 skeletons, cast invocation on a 7+, it goes through, then you'll get 2d6 extra skeletons, but the unit will only be worth 10. As a Necrach vampire. you get +1 to casting all spells, and with special bloodline abilities you can increase range of your spells, or add onto them.
For the record I said that TK magic is reliable, not incredibly powerful. sweatdrop  

[EliotJamesRookwood]

Yes, I am aware you said it was reliable, and it is for certain if he takes TK that he will never suffer a miscast, but thats part of the fun of magic. Although, magic is supposedly revamped coming up.  

[Everlasting Chaos]

EliotJamesRookwood

Yes, I am aware you said it was reliable, and it is for certain if he takes TK that he will never suffer a miscast, but thats part of the fun of magic. Although, magic is supposedly revamped coming up.

Either way I'm pretty sure the change to magic won't really affect the Tomb Kings. Their magic functions in an almost completely different way than everyone else anyway.  

[EliotJamesRookwood]

Yeah, but what about dispel dice, they still generate that like everyone else.  

[Everlasting Chaos]

EliotJamesRookwood

Yeah, but what about dispel dice, they still generate that like everyone else.

Yeah, that would change. But not the actual casting.  

[EliotJamesRookwood]

Everlasting Chaos

EliotJamesRookwood

Yeah, but what about dispel dice, they still generate that like everyone else.

Yeah, that would change. But not the actual casting.

Games-workshop is not noted for its common sense, they very well might.  

[Everlasting Chaos]

EliotJamesRookwood

Everlasting Chaos

EliotJamesRookwood

Yeah, but what about dispel dice, they still generate that like everyone else.

Yeah, that would change. But not the actual casting.

Games-workshop is not noted for its common sense, they very well might.

If that's the case they would need to include a specific section in the rule book stating that Tomb Kings now follow the new system, or how this system works for them.  

[EliotJamesRookwood]

Yep, damn games-workshop and its odd money grubbing ways. Yet, much like an addiction I can't stop buying from them...