Asatru a la Deoridhe

[TeaDidikai]

godhi

TeaDidikai

So would either of you say that Gullveig thirsts for Freya's tears? Or is my head playing with translations it aught not?

Freyja's tears are a kenning for amber while the name Gullveig refers to 'gold-thirst' in terms of an overwhelming greed for the precious metal, so the two kennings are probably exclusive.

Above Deo noted that Freya's Tears might also reference gold, not just amber. Granted I am more familiar with amber being called Freya's tears, but I would love to hear more on the matter.

Any sources Deo?  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Deoridhe

Nope, Freya has the cat chariot. She also cried tears when seeking her lost husband, Od, tears which became amber or gold.

I know there is a giantess that has a name which translates as something akin to "Gold Thurst". Is this kind of "Gold" the same as Freya's tears?

Similar idea, imo, as I personally consider gold a kenning for the life force, energy, and hamingja or an individual, both tangible and intangible.

TeaDidikai

So would either of you say that Gullveig thirsts for Freya's tears? Or is my head playing with translations it aught not?

I would say she thursts for the fertility/strength/luck/power/wealth of people in general, which is where her name comes from.

For what it's worth, I have no lore tying Freya's tears to gold as well; it's just "what they always said".

Annalixa

I know the Norse pantheon is associated with...er...Nordic countries. But there is mention of the same/a similar pantheon and Germanic people. Just how "German" (bearing in mind Germany wasn't really properly Germany until fairly recently) is Asatru and its associated deities?

I personally draw some from Saxo's History of the Danes, which is quasi closer to Germanic than Norse (the cultures of those areas gets very fuzzy). Other Asatruar I know draw from Anglo-Saxon lore as well, for example in regards to the Runes. It is usually assumed that Wotan and Odin are referring to the same deity, as well, and the issues with Njord (Norse god) and Nerthus (Germanic goddess) and teir relationship or lack thereof is one of the quietly glossed over aspects of Asatru - as is the holiday and goddess Eostre (who may or may not actually exist, historically speaking). Anthropological and village and burial information is pulled from a wide range as well, with some care turned toward separating it from the Celts and Sami who had/have overlapping territory. So, in short, the answer is "fairly" because Asatru attempts to cast as broad a net as possible and then integrate it as cleanly as possible into one tradition.

There are area and country-specific other groups, btw. I believe Iceland has a particularly active one which is Norse-source-only.

Personally, many of my folk-traditions are German and Danish, not Norse. For example, I put paper hearts on my Yule tree and refer to my housewights as Pooka (and, indeed, have several Pooka dolls that were gifts) and when I make Yule cards they say: "Glaedelig Jul", which is Danish. I cook apleskeval and frigadellar and we have mazipan and kanseke every winter (all spellings approximate). This is all a reflection of my ancestors and comes out most strongly at Jul, which is the time-for-looking-back, imo.  

[ShadowSharrow]

Quote:

Freya's Tears - Freya was married to the God Od, perhaps identical to Odin, who mysteriously disappeared. When she could not find her husband Od, Freya shed tears of gold. The tears that hit trees turned into amber.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/time/smd/smd21.htm

Quote:

"And Freya next came nigh, with golden tears;
The loveliest Goddess she in Heaven, by all
Most honour'd after Frea, Odin's wife.
Her long ago the wandering Odur took
To mate, but left her to roam distant lands;
Since then she seeks him, and weeps tears of gold."
MATTHEW ARNOLD--Balder Dead.

The amber tears it seams are said to be where her tears hit a tree or where her love in re requited.

What do you think Deoridhe ?  

[Deoridhe]

ShadowSharrow

Quote:

Freya's Tears - Freya was married to the God Od, perhaps identical to Odin, who mysteriously disappeared. When she could not find her husband Od, Freya shed tears of gold. The tears that hit trees turned into amber.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/time/smd/smd21.htm

Quote:

"And Freya next came nigh, with golden tears;
The loveliest Goddess she in Heaven, by all
Most honour'd after Frea, Odin's wife.
Her long ago the wandering Odur took
To mate, but left her to roam distant lands;
Since then she seeks him, and weeps tears of gold."
MATTHEW ARNOLD--Balder Dead.

The amber tears it seams are said to be where her tears hit a tree or where her love in re requited.

What do you think Deoridhe ?

OOo, I will have to poke at this further. They have the odd Freya/Frigga conflation thing going on, though (I really need to throw together some framing for that whole mess and toss it at my Asatru list to see what's dross) and they conflate Easter/Eostre/Ostara with Freya instead of Frigga - note, Frigga/Eostre conflation is totally UPG on my part. *adds at the end* Wait, at the end they say Frigga instead of Freya, so maybe this is part of the whole conflation issue.

Matthew Arnold is a Victorian poet, so we'd have to look into his history and see what lore he based the gold/amber on, but it certainly is lovely verse. COntrary to that page's claim about Freya meeting up with Od/Odur again, though, my impression was that he was never found - which is why she takes the half of the Einharjar who left family behind and reunites them all post death (according to Kindred Loremaster McDoesn'tCiteSources).

*reads further* It mentions Freya and Loki and the Wall but not that Loki was a female horse!!! rofl Someone's not giving big brother his props! He KNOWS the pain of giving birth!

Some of the bits remind me more of fairy tales that the myths I've read... but it's definitely a cool source. I need to look into Victorian Poetry on the gods; maybe I can bribe someone into putting them to music.

My overall sense is, from just that chapter, this is far more a reflection of Christian interpretation of myth and folkbelief from the gods than anything scrupulously researched. That being said, some of it gels with the myths I know and my own UPG (and that of others) while other bits don't, so definitely an interesting touchpoint.  

[Deoridhe]

I went to a Spring Finding Blot at another kindred's over the weekend. Interestingly, they focus on Idunn for it, and told the story of her apples being stolen, but combined this with an egg-dying process (I made a rainbow one I'm quite fond off) and a crayon-based Pysanki (give me my kiske! PLEASE!!!). The rune set distributed was Freya's ett, which I found inconvenience since it's the only one I have memorized and I was hoping to do all three etts in order on an egg. I think I'll be bringing notes to my moms for pysanki and making a rune egg as well as the usual god-based egg.

Always interesting to see how other kindreds do things. ^^  

[TeaDidikai]

Deo

TeaDidikai

This world we live in is made up of corporeal and non-corporeal parts as much as we as humans are made up of the same.

This dovetails very closely with what I believe and what I think the Eddas teach. There is "I can touch it" and "I can sense it" and both are important.

Could you give me an example of this in the Eddas?

Perhaps expand on this with your own UPG?  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Deo

TeaDidikai

This world we live in is made up of corporeal and non-corporeal parts as much as we as humans are made up of the same.

This dovetails very closely with what I believe and what I think the Eddas teach. There is "I can touch it" and "I can sense it" and both are important.

Could you give me an example of this in the Eddas?

Perhaps expand on this with your own UPG?

Well, the best example are the runes, imo. They have a physical component, they are primed with the blood of a caster, but their actual existence is far beyond that of where they are carved or written.

My upg ties into what of my empathy I think I have, where I can get flashes of "being-ness" or emotion that is clearly not mine even when not looking at the person - in fact looking often makes it harder to tell between the sense and the observe.  

[TeaDidikai]

Interesting.

Would you say that the glyph of the Futhark is the "body" and the energy there of the "soul"?  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Interesting.

Would you say that the glyph of the Futhark is the "body" and the energy there of the "soul"?

Hmmm... yes, I think that's apt, though the more I think on it - runes are usually carved or pressed in some manner, so it's less the glyph and more the absence which is the body, which is a fitting irony for the runes and their nature, I think.  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

Hmmm... yes, I think that's apt, though the more I think on it - runes are usually carved or pressed in some manner, so it's less the glyph and more the absence which is the body, which is a fitting irony for the runes and their nature, I think.

I keep forgetting that my relief work Futhark are the odd balls.

Good point.

So- here's a question: if you were to carve a rune into human flesh, would that rune be a hole that is filled with the energy of the rune?  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

So- here's a question: if you were to carve a rune into human flesh, would that rune be a hole that is filled with the energy of the rune?

Yes, I do think so, but twined more closely with the person, both physically and spiritually. That might be one way to carve things into your orlog, in fact, or into your hamingja. I'm not aware of any lore where runes are carved into currently-living, mobile things, though, much less sentient ones.  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

TeaDidikai

So- here's a question: if you were to carve a rune into human flesh, would that rune be a hole that is filled with the energy of the rune?

Yes, I do think so, but twined more closely with the person, both physically and spiritually. That might be one way to carve things into your orlog, in fact, or into your hamingja. I'm not aware of any lore where runes are carved into currently-living, mobile things, though, much less sentient ones.

So if you carved a rune into your ancestor, you could affect your hamingja?

And if you carved it into yourself you could alter your orlog...

Hmmmm... would it be implied that the part of your soul left with the removed flesh?  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Deoridhe

TeaDidikai

So- here's a question: if you were to carve a rune into human flesh, would that rune be a hole that is filled with the energy of the rune?

Yes, I do think so, but twined more closely with the person, both physically and spiritually. That might be one way to carve things into your orlog, in fact, or into your hamingja. I'm not aware of any lore where runes are carved into currently-living, mobile things, though, much less sentient ones.

So if you carved a rune into your ancestor, you could affect your hamingja?

And if you carved it into yourself you could alter your orlog...

Hmmmm... would it be implied that the part of your soul left with the removed flesh?

More a sympathetic magic - hamingja and orlog are both noncorporeal aspects of a person, their souls to use English speak, so when you carve into the physical vessel with something with a "soul" it reflects into the incorporeal "soul" as well.

That being said, some things, like hamingja, you lose when you die. It goes to your family. You may be sucked up in it (one explanation for Disir) but YOU are then part of IT instead of IT being part of YOU.  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

More a sympathetic magic - hamingja and orlog are both noncorporeal aspects of a person, their souls to use English speak, so when you carve into the physical vessel with something with a "soul" it reflects into the incorporeal "soul" as well.

I think I see.

Quote:

That being said, some things, like hamingja, you lose when you die. It goes to your family. You may be sucked up in it (one explanation for Disir) but YOU are then part of IT instead of IT being part of YOU.

Can one "add" to one's Hamingja?  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Deoridhe

That being said, some things, like hamingja, you lose when you die. It goes to your family. You may be sucked up in it (one explanation for Disir) but YOU are then part of IT instead of IT being part of YOU.

Can one "add" to one's Hamingja?

Oh, yes. In fact, for the sake of ones descendants, one should. This includes material wealth and positive reputation in ones' community, btw, which is one of the reasons one of my more common objects of discussion re: Hamingja is Paris Hilton. Here is someone with a high hamingja who is, even before becoming valuable within the contexts of the family, squandering both reputation and wealth, which lessens the family's hamingja.