This is a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway thread

[Brass Bell Doll]

AniMajor

In Thelema, or other Ceremonial-type magic, how are rituals closed? Is there a special post-ritual ritual?

Liber XV ends in a benediction if I recall.  

[Deoridhe]

AniMajor

In Thelema, or other Ceremonial-type magic, how are rituals closed? Is there a special post-ritual ritual?

I know the Lesser Banishing Rite of the Pentagram has an outgoing ritual which is an inverse of the ingoing. I don't remember the others anymore.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Musical_Vampire_Socks

Can you do a tarot card reading for a pet like a cat or dog?

I don't think it's impossible, but I'd wonder if it is the most effective course of action.
What kind of reading?  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Musical_Vampire_Socks

Brass Bell Doll

Musical_Vampire_Socks

Can you do a tarot card reading for a pet like a cat or dog?

I don't think it's impossible, but I'd wonder if it is the most effective course of action.
What kind of reading?

Like a reading if the pet is sick or if the pet is going to have surgery what will be the outcome of it Or if its a kitten or puppy and you don't know its personality yet and want to learn about it.

I'm sure you could do a reading for those things, but I think checking with a vet's prognosis or spending time with the animal might be a better use of a person's time.  

[Yanueh]

I do not think that prayer and spells are the same thing... usually. However, I have noticed that people who pray use some of the same methods people use when using spellwork: meditation of some form. Clearing the mind of all earthly matters. Fasting. Singing/chanting.

Also, there are also servitors that people create to carry out various tasks, which apparently given enough time and energy, the servitors can develop into godforms.

This indicates to me that the line between prayer and spellwork is somewhat fuzzy, and that while prayer has some technical differences from spellwork, may merely be yet another method of working magic, albeit routed through a godform than done directly.

Does this make me fluffy? Perhaps it's because I don't explain myself well, but some people seem to look down their noses at me because I'm seeing more similarities in the methods than differences.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

I do not feel it is fluffy, but I would also say I disagree with the conclusions.

While it would be hard to get a diverse group working from different religions to agree on the definitions for magic/k, prayer and spells, I do not think the overlap is great enough to have any significant impact.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Some spells involve prayers. This is especially common in any of the eclectic traditions that really picked up in the Victorian Era. This by no means limits them to those traditions however.

It also depends on how one really wishes to use the word Spell. Ritual is a slightly safer, if more generalized term. Altho not all spells are rituals, nor are all prayers.  

[Bastemhet]

Yanueh, you only mention prayer in regards to servitors and godforms. Are you distinguishing prayer to actual gods from prayer to godforms? I can imagine that some people may become upset if you assert or imply that whom they think they are working with is not an actual god but a godform.

I also think it worth nothing that not all prayer is done with the intent to accomplish or achieve a goal to change some kind of circumstance through use of will (this is what I define as magic). Sometimes people just pray to communicate with their god/s and maintain a relationship with them.  

[Yanueh]

Bastemhet

Yanueh, you only mention prayer in regards to servitors and godforms. Are you distinguishing prayer to actual gods from prayer to godforms? I can imagine that some people may become upset if you assert or imply that whom they think they are working with is not an actual god but a godform.

Objectively speaking, how would you know whether a particular entity is a god or a godform?  

[FlySammyJ]

Some actions you described, such as meditation, are perhaps not so much part of the spell or prayer itself, but are used to prepare the spellworker/supplicant for operations on a spiritual level. Most of us feel the need to be in a certain state of mind/energy/however you describe it in order to effectively communicate with the spiritual world, and I think that can be true for both magic and prayer.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Yanueh

Objectively speaking, how would you know whether a particular entity is a god or a godform?

In my life, it has been a combination of things. I have been tested in ways that give me reasonable certainty that how I sense energy is accurate, from that my conclusions based on sensing what I am experiencing have been reconfirmed by detailing claircognitive experiences to people who knew the lore better than I did, only to have it confirmed.  

[Bastemhet]

Yanueh

Bastemhet

Yanueh, you only mention prayer in regards to servitors and godforms. Are you distinguishing prayer to actual gods from prayer to godforms? I can imagine that some people may become upset if you assert or imply that whom they think they are working with is not an actual god but a godform.

Objectively speaking, how would you know whether a particular entity is a god or a godform?

How would you differentiate an objective experience from a subjective experience? I need to know what you mean by objective before I can give an answer that would be relevant to this line of questioning.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Yanueh

Objectively speaking, how would you know whether a particular entity is a god or a godform?

How does a non-omniscient know anything objectively? ninja