Please help; beginner who needs a LOT help deciding

[Saint Of Demons]

A question about Sacred-texts.com. Do they have the entire book on the website? Cause I've pulled up The Gospel of Mary and it isn't very long at all...some of our pages are longer. Are they just pieces of the books or is The Gospel of Mary just really short?  

[Specter Love]

The Gospel of Mary was discovered in fragments, so the current copy available to scholars is incomplete. I haven't seen SacredText.com's version but I assume it is the entire available manuscript, since it has full manuscripts of the other texts I've searched for there.  

[Rookherst[KOS]]

Saint Of Demons

A question about Sacred-texts.com. Do they have the entire book on the website? Cause I've pulled up The Gospel of Mary and it isn't very long at all...some of our pages are longer. Are they just pieces of the books or is The Gospel of Mary just really short?

Pages 1-6 are missing, and also Pages 11-14 are missing.  

[Rookherst[KOS]]

Saint:

as far as Genom Book, i've never heard of it and all searches yield the evil cooperation from Bubble Gum Crisis the Anime.


As for Crowley: maybe Accurate was not the best word. Informative. Highly Informative.  

[Saint Of Demons]

Specter Love

The Gospel of Mary was discovered in fragments, so the current copy available to scholars is incomplete. I haven't seen SacredText.com's version but I assume it is the entire available manuscript, since it has full manuscripts of the other texts I've searched for there.

Ok just wanted to make sure lol.  

[Saint Of Demons]

Quote:

Rookherst[KOS]

Saint Of Demons

A question about Sacred-texts.com. Do they have the entire book on the website? Cause I've pulled up The Gospel of Mary and it isn't very long at all...some of our pages are longer. Are they just pieces of the books or is The Gospel of Mary just really short?

Pages 1-6 are missing, and also Pages 11-14 are missing.

It said that pages 1-6 were missing but I must've skipped over the part that said 11-14 were missing. I guess that would explain the shortness.

 

[Saint Of Demons]

Rookherst[KOS]

Saint:

as far as Genom Book, i've never heard of it and

Quote:

all searches yield the evil cooperation from Bubble Gum Crisis the Anime.

Huh?

Quote:

As for Crowley: maybe Accurate was not the best word. Informative. Highly Informative.

Oh Ok.

I will be gone tomorrow (Sunday)-Thursday on vacation.  

[godhi]

My advice concerning the Goetia:
arrow Keep in mind that the spirits mentioned in the Lemegeton are the 72 Lords of Primordial Fire, who are identified with the Nephelim of the Book of Enoch. These entities are demigods and are to be treated with absolute honor and respect, as the Nephelim view humans as inferior beings and are easily insulted by the arrogance of those mortals who summon them.
Even Vassago, who is among the most friendly of the Nephelim can become dangerous if not treated with honor and respect!

arrow Although the 72 Lords of Primordial Fire cannot enter this world unless summoned, it does not take much effort to summon them. However, the use of proper ritual makes it easier for them to manifest on this plane and requires less expenditure of energy on the part of the Nephelim, making them more likely to be in the mood to bargain with the magician upon manifesting.
Lack of proper ritual not only requires more energy for the Nephelim to manifest, but it gives the entity a good idea of the general competence of the magician summoning them; for this reason, a magician who does not use the proper rituals will be challenged by the Nephelim, who will search for any weaknesses in either the magician or their magical defenses and take full advantage of them.

arrow As mentioned above, the 72 Lords of Primordial Fire are demigods with powers and abilities beyond mortal understanding, and many of them will attempt to frighten and intimidate the magician upon manifesting in the hope that the magician will panic and make the mistake which allows the Nephelim to take advantage of them. Even if protected from the Nephelim, such is their power that mere contact with the summoned entity can cause those sensitive to psychic vibrations to descend into madness; one friend of mine who helped summon one of the most dangerous of the Nephelim spent more than two years in psychotherapy because of mental contact with the entity and never quite recovered from the experience, developing amnesia which made him forget everything involving his research into the occult.

arrow Another problem with the 72 Lords of Primordial Fire is that the Nephelim are ancient entities with intelligence and resourcefulness much greater than any mortal, and given the opportunity will trick and deceive their summoner. A number of the Nephelim take a perverse pleasure in inflicting pain and suffering upon those who summon them, and like the Djinn of legend enjoy twisting the meaning of any agreement between themselves and any mortal foolish enough to establish a pact with them.
Let the buyer beware!

arrow As a final note, keep in mind that in addition to the summoning ritual for the Nephelim, the magician needs the appropriate banishing rite. If improperly banished, the Nephelim will be most displeased, as the entity will be required to use its own energy to return to its plane of origin while the more hostile of the Nephelim might actually hang around to punish the magician for his incompetence.
As H.P. Lovecraft said in his novel, The Case of Charles Dexter Ward:
"Do not call up what you cannot put back down again."  

[TeaDidikai]

bondage bunnie

As far as Norse/Germanic/Dane paganism goes get yourself a copy of the poetic edda you can buy it for like 5 bucks at barns and nobles.

And have a really bad translation that is very biased.

Some of the less expensive translations cut huge chunks out and tend to rewrite the Norse gods in Christian allagory.

Quote:

If your getting into Demonology get the Genom.

A typo perhaps?

Quote:

If you wanna expound upon "Christianity or Judaism" go with anything marked "kaballa quabala qoaballa" (or one of the other 150 spellings) ^^

Bad advice- especially since source texts on the subject are already on the reading list.

Why on earth would someone read pop-Hollywood QBL, when a free source text is there for the taking?!

Quote:

If your looking into Wicca (gods help you)

Was that meant to be insulting? It came across as such. Wicca can be a wonderful religion for those who are called to be Clergy.

Quote:

steer clear of anything marked "Silver Ravenwolf".

This much is true.

Quote:

If your curious about "Voodoo" go to Haiti or Dominican Republic

Voodoo is used mostly for the tradition out of New Orleans.

Quote:

and ask for the Black Book read it cover to cover then return it.^^ Bad things happen to one who steals a Black Book.

1) Urban Legend.

2) It is based on the personal list of charms etc that are kept in a collection of books which includes information on the family it comes from.

3) The clergy role for the theology runs in family lines and the tradition is very centered on laymen going to the clergy for aid- no matter what Barns and Noble has to say about it.

Quote:

Satanism is a myth that they worship the devil

Except of course, for the Theistic Satanist who do worship the Devil.

Quote:

Satanist are theoretical atheists.

What is a theoretical atheist v. an actual atheist?

Quote:

Sanateria is a combination of voodoo and xianist belief archaically wrapped together into secretive religion amongst central and south America.

Afraid not. Santeria deals with the Orishas.

Remember kiddies:
Fon-Ewe =/= Yoruban.

bondage bunnie

By the way call it what you will but all "Magick" is just praying in a different way. ^^

I consider this to be a gross misrepresentation.

For one, it is spelled magic- as was addressed in the earlier part of the thread.

Two, the idea that magic is the same as a prayer is a misapplication of concepts.

Many traditions hold magic as the realm of the person using other tools to make changes to corporeal reality.

To pray is to "address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving" according to good old Webster. So- if no god or form of divinity is included, it isn't praying.

bondage bunnie

"YHVH" According to a Rabbi is a way of writing Yahwah.

YHVH is the formal name of their god. Yahwah is likely not the way any Rabbi would spell it as the Hebrew alphabet doesn't have a W, only a V.

Further- it isn't "a way", it is the correct way of writing the name of their god with the Roman lettering.

Yahwah is a guess- (and a poor one at that for reasons mentioned above) as to what it would look like if vowels were placed in the name.

Quote:

Jewish name for what "God" who they are not allowed to say his name,

Except in the temple during one specific holiday.

Quote:

names himself not to be called ^^' It mean "I am" you see it alot in gnostisism.

Man- my Hebrew is screwed up.

I could have sworn that hayah was "I am", not YHVH.

Saint Of Demons

What's Xianist[ism] (ism is in brackets 'casue I'm not sure if it belongs on there...)

It's a term used for Christians. A rather rude one by most standards.  

[Saint Of Demons]

Quote:

godhi

My advice concerning the Goetia:
arrow Keep in mind that the spirits mentioned in the Lemegeton are the 72 Lords of Primordial Fire, who are identified with the Nephelim of the Book of Enoch. These entities are demigods and are to be treated with absolute honor and respect, as the Nephelim view humans as inferior beings and are easily insulted by the arrogance of those mortals who summon them.
Even Vassago, who is among the most friendly of the Nephelim can become dangerous if not treated with honor and respect!

Lemegeton I'm guessing is a book I will be reading later?
As is Book of Enoch.

72...wow.

Can only the 72 Lords of Primordial Fire be summoned? or are there others?

Quote:

arrow Although the 72 Lords of Primordial Fire cannot enter this world unless summoned, it does not take much effort to summon them. However, the use of proper ritual makes it easier for them to manifest on this plane and requires less expenditure of energy on the part of the Nephelim, making them more likely to be in the mood to bargain with the magician upon manifesting.
Lack of proper ritual not only requires more energy for the Nephelim to manifest, but it gives the entity a good idea of the general competence of the magician summoning them; for this reason, a magician who does not use the proper rituals will be challenged by the Nephelim, who will search for any weaknesses in either the magician or their magical defenses and take full advantage of them.

So when the ritual is performed you must be certain that you are doing everything correctly?

Quote:

arrow As mentioned above, the 72 Lords of Primordial Fire are demigods with powers and abilities beyond mortal understanding, and many of them will attempt to frighten and intimidate the magician upon manifesting in the hope that the magician will panic and make the mistake which allows the Nephelim to take advantage of them. Even if protected from the Nephelim, such is their power that mere contact with the summoned entity can cause those sensitive to psychic vibrations to descend into madness; one friend of mine who helped summon one of the most dangerous of the Nephelim spent more than two years in psychotherapy because of mental contact with the entity and never quite recovered from the experience, developing amnesia which made him forget everything involving his research into the occult.

When you use the words 'frighten' and 'intimidate' what are you reffering to them doing? Or is this unknown?

So what your saying is even with the proper protection spells and such it still may not be enough to actually protect you?

Quote:

arrow Another problem with the 72 Lords of Primordial Fire is that the Nephelim are ancient entities with intelligence and resourcefulness much greater than any mortal, and given the opportunity will trick and deceive their summoner. A number of the Nephelim take a perverse pleasure in inflicting pain and suffering upon those who summon them, and like the Djinn of legend enjoy twisting the meaning of any agreement between themselves and any mortal foolish enough to establish a pact with them.
Let the buyer beware!

So before you strike a deal you need to look at every angle to make sure there aren't holes in it?

What CAN you deal with them?

You make it sound like it's impossible to do anything with these guys. sweatdrop

Quote:

arrow As a final note, keep in mind that in addition to the summoning ritual for the Nephelim, the magician needs the appropriate banishing rite. If improperly banished, the Nephelim will be most displeased, as the entity will be required to use its own energy to return to its plane of origin while the more hostile of the Nephelim might actually hang around to punish the magician for his incompetence.
As H.P. Lovecraft said in his novel, The Case of Charles Dexter Ward:
"Do not call up what you cannot put back down again."

So banishing can or is more dangerous than summoning?

 

[TeaDidikai]

Saint Of Demons

Lemegeton I'm guessing is a book I will be reading later?
As is Book of Enoch.

Feel free to read to Book of Enoch first.

And I am pretty sure we mentioned the Lesser Keys ages ago.

Quote:

72...wow.

Can only the 72 Lords of Primordial Fire be summoned? or are there others?

Well, in the Lesser Key or in general?

Quote:

So when the ritual is performed you must be certain that you are doing everything correctly?

That or let it eat your face.

Quote:

When you use the words 'frighten' and 'intimidate' what are you reffering to them doing? Or is this unknown?

Very much depends on the spirit in question. Standard psychology has been applied in the past- bellowing and other such outbursts etc- the more subtle ones can be more entertaining from what I hear.

Quote:

So what your saying is even with the proper protection spells and such it still may not be enough to actually protect you?

Proper form, practice and will.

Quote:

So before you strike a deal you need to look at every angle to make sure there aren't holes in it?

To say the least.

Quote:

What CAN you deal with them?

That depends on what the spirit has to offer.

Quote:

You make it sound like it's impossible to do anything with these guys. sweatdrop

No. Not impossible. Just very dangerous, difficult and really- not that worth it in my opinion.

Quote:

So banishing can or is more dangerous than summoning?

Can be.  

[Saint Of Demons]

Quote:

TeaDidikai

Saint Of Demons

Lemegeton I'm guessing is a book I will be reading later?
As is Book of Enoch.

Feel free to read to Book of Enoch first.

And I am pretty sure we mentioned the Lesser Keys ages ago.

Lemegeton = Lesser Keys?

Quote:

Quote:

72...wow.

Can only the 72 Lords of Primordial Fire be summoned? or are there others?

Well, in the Lesser Key or in general?

In general.

Quote:

Quote:

So when the ritual is performed you must be certain that you are doing everything correctly?

That or let it eat your face.

Eh...I'll go with the option that doesn't envolve getting my face eaten.

Quote:

Quote:

When you use the words 'frighten' and 'intimidate' what are you reffering to them doing? Or is this unknown?

Very much depends on the spirit in question. Standard psychology has been applied in the past- bellowing and other such outbursts etc- the more subtle ones can be more entertaining from what I hear.

Can others hear/see them when you summon them? Or are they only visible to the summoner?

Quote:

Quote:

So what your saying is even with the proper protection spells and such it still may not be enough to actually protect you?

Proper form, practice and will.

Practice...eh on what? It sounds like the only way to get experience is to summon the dangerous stuff.

Quote:

Quote:

So before you strike a deal you need to look at every angle to make sure there aren't holes in it?

To say the least.

Ok.

Quote:

Quote:

What CAN you deal with them?

That depends on what the spirit has to offer.

Quote:

You make it sound like it's impossible to do anything with these guys. sweatdrop

No. Not impossible. Just very dangerous, difficult and really- not that worth it in my opinion.

I can guess that they don't do things for you they expect something in return I expect? What do they ask for in return for a 'favor'.

Quote:

Quote:

So banishing can or is more dangerous than summoning?

Can be.

Ok.

 

[TeaDidikai]

Saint Of Demons

Lemegeton = Lesser Keys?

The Lemegeton Clavicula Salomonis or the later translation Clavicula Salomonis Regis- or to answer the question, yes.

Quote:

In general.

There are other spirits listed in the Theurgia Goëtia, the Ars Paulina and the Ars Almadel.

Quote:

Can others hear/see them when you summon them? Or are they only visible to the summoner?

Most of the CMers I knew worked in pairs. Summoner and Seer.

Quote:

Practice...eh on what? It sounds like the only way to get experience is to summon the dangerous stuff.

Practice as in the nature of, not as in making attempts.

Quote:

I can guess that they don't do things for you they expect something in return I expect? What do they ask for in return for a 'favor'.

Which spirit?
Although- to be blunt, many of these styles of practice stem from command, not barter.  

[Saint Of Demons]

Quote:

TeaDidikai

Saint Of Demons

Lemegeton = Lesser Keys?

The Lemegeton Clavicula Salomonis or the later translation Clavicula Salomonis Regis- or to answer the question, yes.

Alright.

Quote:

Quote:

In general.

There are other spirits listed in the Theurgia Goëtia, the Ars Paulina and the Ars Almadel.

Many others or just a few? Or is this something I'm gonna have to find out for myself.

Quote:

Quote:

Can others hear/see them when you summon them? Or are they only visible to the summoner?

Most of the CMers I knew worked in pairs. Summoner and Seer.

So I should get a partner to do this with me?

Quote:

Quote:

Practice...eh on what? It sounds like the only way to get experience is to summon the dangerous stuff.

Practice as in the nature of, not as in making attempts.

So the protection charms and stuff?

Quote:

Quote:

I can guess that they don't do things for you they expect something in return I expect? What do they ask for in return for a 'favor'.

Which spirit?
Although- to be blunt, many of these styles of practice stem from command, not barter.

So for me to get them to do anything for me I first have to honor them and earn their respect but then I have to command them to do what I want?...I'm slightly confused,,,

 

[Celtic of the Fae]

1)It prolly isn't smart to summon anything if you have this many
questions about it. (Granted you could prolly summon something
that doesn't have as much harm to you as the 72 lords. But if you
can't banish it(properly), don't summon it.)

2)If you do summon anything It would be smart to have another
person(if not more) with you who actually know what they're doing.

3)Don't screw up any of the protection spells, you're f**ked if you do.

4)Most summoned beings(if summoning, protection, and confining
spells are done correctly) should be under the caster's control. Thus
commands can be issued and they will do so.. but beware, they may
twist your words to their liking. And if information is given it may be false.

----
I'm sure Tea will clear things up... and point out where I might be wrong.
I don't try to think I know everything.
I just know what I've been told by my mentor.