Slapdash phrases and Assumptions in the Pagan Scene

[Iosonos]

Sir_Catherine

BlueRoseTorn

The assumption that Asatru = Odin and Freya is very irksome to me. I've met more people who think along those lines than I would like who have liked to.

Who or What is Asatru? I admit ignorance here. Though I do know the names Odin and Freya and have never heard Asatru mentioned with them. From your comment, I suppose that's a good thing!

Asatru is a New Aged movement that is strongly based on the Nordic pantheon and belief system. They try to follow it as closely as they can to what is known about the original Nordic customs.  

[Sir_Catherine]

TeaDidikai

Shimegamis_Rage

Reprimanding me with threats of Karma getting me, regardless of how many times I state I dont believe in Karma...

This one ends with me telling them they have no ******** clue what Karma is, and then my lengthy explination as to Dharma and Karma and telling them that once they have read the Gitas and can quote Krishna, they can come back and lecture me.

Would you lecture me on Karma? Either here or in a mailing; I'd like to know more of the facts behind the idea of Karma, not just the hippy/yuppy use of the word. Thanks.  

[Sir_Catherine]

TeaDidikai

Shimegamis_Rage

Having a pretentious p***k say that my patrons are mere facets of their deity.

This one I usually respond with "Ah. Cute. Another Soft Polytheist who ignores Alako's commands to be an Atheist then. Sucks to be you."

Who is Alako and how does atheism come into play with paganism, if Alako is related to paganism. If I'm totaly off here, please correct me and then explain. smile  

[Sir_Catherine]

Iosonos

Sir_Catherine

BlueRoseTorn

The assumption that Asatru = Odin and Freya is very irksome to me. I've met more people who think along those lines than I would like who have liked to.

Who or What is Asatru? I admit ignorance here. Though I do know the names Odin and Freya and have never heard Asatru mentioned with them. From your comment, I suppose that's a good thing!

Asatru is a New Aged movement that is strongly based on the Nordic pantheon and belief system. They try to follow it as closely as they can to what is known about the original Nordic customs.

So the annoying assumption here is that Odin + Freya comprise all of Asatru, ignoring the rest of the Nordic pantheon and belief system?  

[TeaDidikai]

Sir_Catherine

TeaDidikai

Aesi

I can't tell the difference between someone who can actually "see" and someone who can't. The people who made the statements above may have been genuine.

Two words to live by when dealing in the Pagan Scene- "Test Them." wink

How? Please give expamles/advice!

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is if you have any talent with grounding or sensing your own energy- altering it and ask them what they see.

Also ensure that folks aren't suffering from RB by testing them by recreating RB situations and (depending on how trustworthy the individual in question is) asking if they see the same thing you know to be RB.

Iosonos

Asatru is a New Aged movement

You. Stop.
Unless you know what you are speaking of, I suggest you reconsider your position on speaking about something outside of your education.

Asatru is a Reconstructionalist theology. It has nothing to do with the New Age movement.

Sir_Catherine

So the annoying assumption here is that Odin + Freya comprise all of Asatru, ignoring the rest of the Nordic pantheon and belief system?

As a Reconstructionalist Theology Asatru looks to source texts (such as the Eddas, the Sagas etc) to attempt to recreate a theology in a similar way to how it might have been practiced in times before it died out.

The Icelanders preserved a number of important texts for the Norse Recons to use. While some of what is practiced is based on UPG and the natural expression of modern living, the core mythos, style (within the law) and community is based on what can be found in surviving texts and through archeology.

As to why "Odin + Freya comprise all of Asatru" is annoying, there are a few reasons this gets under the skin of a number of Asatru I know. For one, the two deities in question have names similar to each other's spouses. (Odin is married to Frigga and Od to Freya)

Many people (damnit Janet!) lump these very different deities together based on this fact alone.

Also common to see are folks who apply the neo-pagan concept of a "Lord and Lady" deity structure to a theology that it doesn't fit in. Odin and Freya weren't lovers (I'd give a good debate as to if they even liked each other) and as a result, you have wanna-be Wiccans treating these two like a bastardized Norse-Wiccan Lord and Lady. It's kinda insulting.

Then there is that whole "forget the rest of the pantheon thing", which can be irksome.

As can the Historical Revisionism that turns these two into "Loving Patron Deities of Trust, Justice and the American Way".

Yeah- Odin will screw you over in a heart beat if it benefits him. And Freya- well, she isn't that different.  

[TeaDidikai]

Sir_Catherine

Would you lecture me on Karma? Either here or in a mailing; I'd like to know more of the facts behind the idea of Karma, not just the hippy/yuppy use of the word. Thanks.

Short Story:
Dharma is your path in life (it translates as platform- what you stand on ).
Karma is what is gained when you act outside of your dharma.
There is no such thing as "Good Karma" as all Karma keeps you tied to the cycle of life and death.

Krishna basically came down and bitchslapped a prince who had "conflicting dharmas". (Way over simplification)

In short, one cannot always escape karma in any given lifetime because the dharmas will not always work well together. Some believe a dharma cannot exist outside of the Caste System of India.

However, if you want to parallel the concepts to a broader spectrum of human experience, you can say that a thief who steals does not incur Karma as it is their dharma as a thief to steal. By doing something that most find "immoral" they are actually working towards their spiritual betterment.

Likewise those who minister to a community and use magic to do so would not incur karma for crossing someone as their dharma may demand it of them. (Favorite example: Me cursing a rapist).

Sir_Catherine

Who is Alako

A deity of a metagenetic culture.

Quote:

and how does atheism come into play with paganism,

Alako prohibits people who are not from a specific genetic/ethnic group from worshiping him. Hence, if Alako is a "facet" of these folks "god" and Alako says that they aren't to worship him because they do not meet the requirements he laid down himself, then they need to be Atheistic.

Of note since you mention it, I am not pagan myself. Neither would I call Alako a pagan deity. But then, I'm being picky.  

[godhi]

Oniko-inuki

My pet peeve is "Mother Nature is sweet and kind and loves everyone!"

Uh-huh. I don't know where you live but out in my neck of the woods there's only one thing you need to remember: you, too, are protein.

Hell, even the trees here can be deadly.

That's part of another pet peeve of mine:
"The Gods and Goddesses are all Love and Light. They is no Darkness within them--that's just Christian propaganda."
I have heard that claptrap from fluff bunny Wiccans more times than I can remember, and it often takes a major act of will to keep a civil tongue in my head.

As far as John Edwards is concerned--he's not a medium; he's a large. twisted
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the man is a complete and total fraud.
Penn and Teller revealed that Edwards has confederates in the audience with microphones who record conversations before the show begins while hidden cameras show him whom to ask questions. The program is also heavily edited, and any questions that Edwards gets wrong are removed before broadcast.
Members of the audience are also required to sign a non-disclosure agreement declaring that they will not tell anyone about the taping session, thereby preventing anyone from exposing him as a fraud.
People like John Edwards, Silver Ravenwolf, and Fiona Horne are proof that Barnum was Right.
 

[jaden kendam]

godhi

Oniko-inuki

My pet peeve is "Mother Nature is sweet and kind and loves everyone!"

Uh-huh. I don't know where you live but out in my neck of the woods there's only one thing you need to remember: you, too, are protein.

Hell, even the trees here can be deadly.

That's part of another pet peeve of mine:
"The Gods and Goddesses are all Love and Light. They is no Darkness within them--that's just Christian propaganda."
I have heard that claptrap from fluff bunny Wiccans more times than I can remember, and it often takes a major act of will to keep a civil tongue in my head.

As far as John Edwards is concerned--he's not a medium; he's a large. twisted
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the man is a complete and total fraud.
Penn and Teller revealed that Edwards has confederates in the audience with microphones who record conversations before the show begins while hidden cameras show him whom to ask questions. The program is also heavily edited, and any questions that Edwards gets wrong are removed before broadcast.
Members of the audience are also required to sign a non-disclosure agreement declaring that they will not tell anyone about the taping session, thereby preventing anyone from exposing him as a fraud.
People like John Edwards, Silver Ravenwolf, and Fiona Horne are proof that Barnum was Right.

This makes me wish I had the test that the Goverment gives certain psychics/mediums. The results were that John scored high, and SB scored very, very low.

But you do have proof that John does the above right?  

[Pelta]

The assumption that you need to call on a god to help you do anything at all.

Are people really that weak that they can't do anything on their own and require their gods to tie their shoelaces?  

[jaden kendam]

missmagpie

The assumption that you need to call on a god to help you do anything at all.

Are people really that weak that they can't do anything on their own and require their gods to tie their shoelaces?

Or that you are rude if you do not thank your Gods for your gifts. As was asked of her, "what about the people who do not believe in any deity?"  

[saint dreya]

TeaDidikai

Sir_Catherine

Would you lecture me on Karma? Either here or in a mailing; I'd like to know more of the facts behind the idea of Karma, not just the hippy/yuppy use of the word. Thanks.

Short Story:
Dharma is your path in life (it translates as platform- what you stand on ).
Karma is what is gained when you act outside of your dharma.
There is no such thing as "Good Karma" as all Karma keeps you tied to the cycle of life and death.

is Dharma liquid or solid? does it change? could you give an example of Karma?  

[TeaDidikai]

phoenix shadowwolf

is Dharma liquid or solid? does it change? could you give an example of Karma?

There are different kinds of dharmas and individuals have a number of these to make up their Dharma.

In the Bhagavad Gita Arjuna has both the dharma of a warrior and the dharma of a brother. These dharmas conflict, and thus he recieves karma no matter what. He just gets to choose to be "less screwed" by acting within the "more important" dharma.

Bastardized and dumbed down a little I know... but it works well enough.  

[Pelta]

TeaDidikai

phoenix shadowwolf

is Dharma liquid or solid? does it change? could you give an example of Karma?

There are different kinds of dharmas and individuals have a number of these to make up their Dharma.

In the Bhagavad Gita Arjuna has both the dharma of a warrior and the dharma of a brother. These dharmas conflict, and thus he recieves karma no matter what. He just gets to choose to be "less screwed" by acting within the "more important" dharma.

Bastardized and dumbed down a little I know... but it works well enough.

So it's more like a role one has to fulfill, or face incurring Karma for failure to do so?