The Runic Corner

[Deoridhe]

Aki Norikaeru

I used a cliche hoping that my meaning would be understood, I never thought that this conversation was limited to Norse examples.

Then you are in the wrong thread. This thread is on the runes and I am speaking in that context, as Vitki and Asatruar.

And I don't like cliches, especially ones which are misused as heinously as the bloody shade differential of black and white or misinterpreted and removed from context as the yin-yang. If you want to understand something as bone-deep as runes, cliches won't get you very far - particularly cliches from an entirely different worldview that were pulled from a third, colonialized worldview.

Worldviews do not exist in vaccuums. Neither do cliches.

Aki Norikaeru

If you did not know what I was directly referring to it was the small bit of white in the black half and the small bit if black in the white half, thus the sharing traits in opposites.

Yes, I am aware of the yin-yang. I do not accept it as the only mode via which one might understand the cosmos, though, and it is a foreign concept to the runes. If you insist on viewing the runes in a context other than their own, you will miss things.

This statement can be generalized.

The Norse system lays heavily on a basis of three. Even the apparent opposites of Muspellheim and Nifleheim form a third, Ginungigap. This is an important thing to know when dealing with the runes. Apparent opposites often aren't. People label things opposites for their own ends, sometimes not even knowing why.

You came into a thread on Norse runes asking basic questions, which I answered, and throwing your cliche around as if it were universal and accurate. This is very Thurisaz, but not terribly Uruz, and it will not get far with me. No amount of "I never thought that this conversation was limited to Norse examples" goalpost moving will change the ground you stand on in this thread.  

[Aki Norikaeru]

Yes well I guess I know why I see Thurisaz so much. rofl Again, hopefully to clarify, I used very general terms and a cliche not in the form of stating facts. I hoped you would find some common ground, or rather you would use a few less Norse examples as I would still be lost. I came here seeking knowledge please don't criticize me too much yet for not having an example or understanding an example from that knowledge. Also, there is no need to worry about me using any pure reference point when learning about the runes, it is not my style. Finally, I will keep the basis of three in mind.

Edit sad because of the comment below this one) That is fine I was just pointing out that those who wish to learn probably wouldn't understand a reference to Norse history, though maybe I am just a few pegs lower than everyone else. I promise not to even type 'yin' or 'yang' from now on.  

[ShadowSharrow]

If you wish to learn about the runes then you must learn about thier history and the culture from which they come;
You must strive to understand them rather then to force an understanding which fits with what you already know or think you know for to do so would be to my mind disrespectful.  

[Deoridhe]

Aki Norikaeru

I hoped you would find some common ground, or rather you would use a few less Norse examples as I would still be lost.

...

I'm typing in English. That's as non-Norse/Germanic as the runes yet, pretty much.  

[Aki Norikaeru]

Yes well, there were not that many(in the entire thread) but they did throw me off a bit. Now we can end this on my previous comment, being; it said something stupid, you picked it out, and I agree on all of your comment. Now off to..well I still can't read any of the books, darn shipping. xp  

[godhi]

The best method I've discovered in learning about the Runes is to meditate upon them, using each Rune as a focus for the meditation. This method id discussed in detail in The Nine Doors of Midgard by Edred Thorsson, using the rune chants from his book Futhark: A Handbook of Rune Magic.

Spending nine nights upon each Rune, the magician goes through each of the twenty-four Runes of the Elder Futhark, fixing the image of the Rune in his mind while chanting the song of power associated with it.
When I performed this ritual, the first few nights spent on a particular Rune I would receive fragmented and surreal images of the archetypes associated with it; for example, with Fehu I received images of herds of cattle, a merchant with a scale counting coins, and a wooden post with two diagonal arms in the shape of the Rune set on fire. Later, the merchant from my visions would speak to me as the archetype of the Rune, answering questions regarding Fehu and its powers.
As I made my way through the Runes of the Elder Futhark, the archetypes would appear earlier in the visions and speak to me with greater clarity; however, the visions also became stronger and more intense, and those involving such Runes as Isa and Hagalaz were actually terrifying, as the images involved astral travel to the realm of Helheim and Niflheim.
One of my beliefs regarding the Runes is that over the centuries they have evolved from simple archetypes into complex entities, although at present they are not as much gods or spirits as divine expert systems, aware of themselves and the other Runes (as well as Odin and Freyja) but not much else. Given another few centuries the Runes will evolve into fully intelligent entities, possibly with the abilities of minor deities.
One interesting point is that because the Aesir and Vanir mixed their blood with mankind, some mystics believe people of Scandinavian and Germanic ancestry have the Runes encoded within them, almost like a spiritual form of DNA. Although I find this concept to be fascinating, I'm more inclined to believe that the Runes are part of the collective unconscious, and through rituals and meditation we can communicate with them. As The X-Files used to say: The Truth is Out There.  

[Ashley Abel]

Is is a bad thing to post in such an old thread? sweatdrop
This thread is actually the initial reason why I joined this guild. I knew literally nothing about the runes until yesterday, but something tells me I should find out more.

My biggest problem...well, this sums it up well:

ShadowSharrow

If you wish to learn about the runes then you must learn about thier history and the culture from which they come;
You must strive to understand them rather then to force an understanding which fits with what you already know or think you know for to do so would be to my mind disrespectful.

Any fluffiness I may have comes from my tendency to order and sort things into a way that works for me. I may naturally place more importance than I should on some things - even gods themselves - because I know something about them, have previous experience with them, or believe for some reason that I should have some connection to them.

That said, there are two specific runes I came here to ask about, and feel free to call me out on it if you think I'm on the wrong track or should be looking at a bigger picture first.

Kenaz and Berkano. Out of nowhere, for the first time in years, I searched for an Asatru-related thread, found one, and found Deoridhe talking about runes and this guild. Those were the first two words that caught my attention; I looked them up and found that they have potentially incredible significance to my life at this point.

A couple questions, then - can anyone give me their personal thoughts on Berkano? There's plenty of information about Kenaz here, but more opinions there are welcome too. Also, what does it mean for a rune to be reversed? And is it true that Berkano has anything to do with Loki? Because if it does, and I'm anywhere near the right track, that's just the icing on a big confusing cake.  

[TeaDidikai]

Ashley Abel

Is is a bad thing to post in such an old thread? sweatdrop

If it was hun, Nuri would have drawn and quartered me ages ago.

Quote:

A couple questions, then - can anyone give me their personal thoughts on Berkano?

Berkano- the Boobie Rune.

I tend to think of Berkano is to Women/Motherhood as Ing is to manhood. But that's my UPG.

I know a few Doulas who wear them for that reason.

Quote:

Also, what does it mean for a rune to be reversed?

How do you mean "reversed"?

Quote:

And is it true that Berkano has anything to do with Loki? Because if it does, and I'm anywhere near the right track, that's just the icing on a big confusing cake.

Well- in a kind of "Haha! You got knocked up!" sort of way- it can be. After all, I think Loki was the only god to give birth in Norse mythology.  

[Saint Of Demons]

Quote:

Quote:

Also, what does it mean for a rune to be reversed?

How do you mean "reversed"?

Inverted I think is what she means, and if so some Runes (rather the majority of them) have a double meaning, but not all of them do. If I'm correct Isa only has one meaning while say Thurisaz has 2 meanings.  

[TeaDidikai]

Saint Of Demons

Quote:

Quote:

Also, what does it mean for a rune to be reversed?

How do you mean "reversed"?

Inverted I think is what she means, and if so some Runes (rather the majority of them) have a double meaning, but not all of them do. If I'm correct Isa only has one meaning while say Thurisaz has 2 meanings.

Heh. There isn't historical references for such.

Damn Blume and him trying to turn the Furthark into Tarot.  

[Ashley Abel]

Thanks, everyone. xD

As for "reversed", I did read somewhere online that runes can have two different meanings. According to this site, Berkano has to do with relationships between mothers and daughters, but when it's inverted or reversed or whatever, it means a strained or problematic relationship, temporary if it's paired with the right runes but permanent with others. No idea where the site was or where they got their information, but I have to say I trust you guys more.  

[TeaDidikai]

Ashley Abel

Thanks, everyone. xD

As for "reversed", I did read somewhere online that runes can have two different meanings.

Ever heard of Blume?

He popularized the Elder Futhark by making his own book wherein he basically said "There isn't a whole lot of information on these- so here is what I have made up found."

He added the blank rune, made alt meanings for "inversed" runes and did his best to tie them into the Major arcana. If I recall, he even shifted some of the staves about.

As for Berkano being about Mothers and Daughters, that's perhaps the most limited application of the mystery I have ever seen.

It's a little like taking a bucket of water and calling it the ocean.  

[Ashley Abel]

TeaDidikai

Ashley Abel

Thanks, everyone. xD

As for "reversed", I did read somewhere online that runes can have two different meanings.

Ever heard of Blume?

He popularized the Elder Futhark by making his own book wherein he basically said "There isn't a whole lot of information on these- so here is what I have made up found."

He added the blank rune, made alt meanings for "inversed" runes and did his best to tie them into the Major arcana. If I recall, he even shifted some of the staves about.

As for Berkano being about Mothers and Daughters, that's perhaps the most limited application of the mystery I have ever seen.

It's a little like taking a bucket of water and calling it the ocean.

I've read a bit about Blume in this thread and around the guild. Sounds really silly...you shouldn't be able to force things to have different meanings. I'll have to find some reliable books on the subject and read up.  

[TeaDidikai]

Ashley Abel

I've read a bit about Blume in this thread and around the guild. Sounds really silly...you shouldn't be able to force things to have different meanings. I'll have to find some reliable books on the subject and read up.

Myself, I like Thorsson- but he can be as tricky as Blume because even though he is better researched, he tends not to make a distinction between history and UPG.  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Berkano- the Boobie Rune.

I tend to think of Berkano is to Women/Motherhood as Ing is to manhood. But that's my UPG.

I tend to agree with that, re: Berkano. Also, Berkano has some of the same "creativity" impulses of Ingwaz. And there's a solid "nature" push, too. I tend to pair Ingwaz and Berkano when I (very rarely) work with them.

The poems are as follows:

Icelandic:

Birch
leafy twig
and little tree
and fresh young shrub.

Norweigan:

Birch has the greenest leaves of any shrub;
Loki was fortunate in his deceit.

Anglo-Saxon:

The poplar bears no fruit; yet without seed it brings forth suckers,
for it is generated from its leaves.
Splendid are its branches and gloriously adorned
its lofty crown which reaches to the skies.

The second, with the reference to Loki... my impulse (eyes the wily one) is to say it has to do with Loki becoming a female horse to distract the horse aiding the Giant who built a wall around Asgardhr at the request of the gods. He bore a child, Sleipnir, via that deceit. Thus, Loki was FORTUNATE in his deceit.

Quote:

Also, what does it mean for a rune to be reversed?

It doesn't, effectively.

Quote:

And is it true that Berkano has anything to do with Loki? Because if it does, and I'm anywhere near the right track, that's just the icing on a big confusing cake.

See above. Be cautious with Wolf's Father. I love him dearly, but he is not easy kin.