Dont come to our church!

[TeaDidikai]

AngryRobotsInc.

Thanks for asking such questions, by the way. I always welcome the chance to reexamine my position, and figure out how to put it into words. Try to think of how it will be seen from the outside, in a sense. I feel it helps me grow as a person.

That's what I'm here for.  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

Collowrath

I guess I'm fortunate in that my mother for some reason or another wasn't baptized and neither was I. In some way I regret it because it puts me in an awkward position, but I guess the reverse would be just as awkward.

It allows me to delve into Dveviere at my own pace, while still honoring other gods that aren't involved in it at all - although the idea of a soul sans baptism being unclean sure throws a wrench.

Address it contextually. That's what your ancestors did. A foreign culture introduced practices and the like, but they weren't in a position to emulate them, they did the same thing their own way.

Come out to SummerStar. I'll baptize you. twisted

I'd love to biggrin Unfortunately, I'm in no financial position to consider any kind of trip for the moment. You and Gho make it sound like so much fun though!

As for addressing it contextually, there are times where I don't even know where to begin on this. A lot of it sits just below the surface - things I'm not consciously aware of. A good example of it might be our conversation on AIM where you were telling me how to make the eggs: the process is one that I know, but not one I've thought about much or thoroughly. I'm aware of some of the designs, but I haven't ever really been aware of their context and meaning in a conscious way.

As far as the "clean/unclean" question goes, I tend to fall back on a Hellenic Recon perspective, because that's the one that I am aware of in a conscious, academic sort of way. It only addresses part of the issue and isn't always applicable, though.

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And here comes my inevitable fence-sitting and hangups concerning my own native faith. I guess we can save that for another thread though. stressed

Get thee to Pathways!

I really want to make one, but I always get a mental roadblock. I guess I'm not quite sure I could flesh it out in a way that would make sense.  

[TeaDidikai]

Collowrath

I'd love to biggrin Unfortunately, I'm in no financial position to consider any kind of trip for the moment. You and Gho make it sound like so much fun though!

Good news! There's a scholarship program!

Pop into the thread.

Quote:

As for addressing it contextually, there are times where I don't even know where to begin on this. A lot of it sits just below the surface - things I'm not consciously aware of. A good example of it might be our conversation on AIM where you were telling me how to make the eggs: the process is one that I know, but not one I've thought about much or thoroughly. I'm aware of some of the designs, but I haven't ever really been aware of their context and meaning in a conscious way.

Research.

By exploring the designs in a Christian context, it's usually pretty easy to piece together how they got that way.

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As far as the "clean/unclean" question goes, I tend to fall back on a Hellenic Recon perspective, because that's the one that I am aware of in a conscious, academic sort of way. It only addresses part of the issue and isn't always applicable, though.

Education will help with that.

What questions do you have about baptism anyway?

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I really want to make one, but I always get a mental roadblock. I guess I'm not quite sure I could flesh it out in a way that would make sense.

Type up a few things on Double Faith, Slavic Paganism, Christendom, Hellenic Paganism as a side practice and then reserve a bunch of posts and have it go from there.  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

What questions do you have about baptism anyway?

Eh, none that I can think of offhand. My only real concern with one is sorting out the context and meaning for myself in relation to Christianity. The ritual has meaning culturally and in the family (which has been jumbled in the past generation by the influence of American protestantisms)... but I still have hangups. Some are spiritual, some political... It's quickly degrading into a very personal issue that I need to sort out. confused

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Type up a few things on Double Faith, Slavic Paganism, Christendom, Hellenic Paganism as a side practice and then reserve a bunch of posts and have it go from there.

Sounds good. Also, sounds easier said than done. *starts writing notes* smile

Heh, if you haven't noticed, I'm definitely the kind of learner that needs my hand held through the process and everything laid out in front of me, much to the ire of my professors. sweatdrop I apologize if it's frustrating.  

[TeaDidikai]

Collowrath

Eh, none that I can think of offhand. My only real concern with one is sorting out the context and meaning for myself in relation to Christianity. The ritual has meaning culturally and in the family (which has been jumbled in the past generation by the influence of American protestantisms)... but I still have hangups. Some are spiritual, some political... It's quickly degrading into a very personal issue that I need to sort out. confused

Examination is the first step.

Quote:

Sounds good. Also, sounds easier said than done. *starts writing notes* smile

Heh, if you haven't noticed, I'm definitely the kind of learner that needs my hand held through the process and everything laid out in front of me, much to the ire of my professors. sweatdrop I apologize if it's frustrating.

Not frustrating. Just... precarious. I'm not your mentor or the like.  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

Collowrath

Sounds good. Also, sounds easier said than done. *starts writing notes* smile

Heh, if you haven't noticed, I'm definitely the kind of learner that needs my hand held through the process and everything laid out in front of me, much to the ire of my professors. sweatdrop I apologize if it's frustrating.

Not frustrating. Just... precarious. I'm not your mentor or the like.

Eh, didn't mean that you were per se, I just wanted to bring it up and apologize in case I had frustrated you at some point.  

[TeaDidikai]

Collowrath

Eh, didn't mean that you were per se, I just wanted to bring it up and apologize in case I had frustrated you at some point.

I half protested Gho's claiming of me as a... I think the term used was guide.

Apparently I get drafted into the role because I'm so ******** mouthy and opinionated.  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

Collowrath

Eh, didn't mean that you were per se, I just wanted to bring it up and apologize in case I had frustrated you at some point.

I half protested Gho's claiming of me as a... I think the term used was guide.

Apparently I get drafted into the role because I'm so ******** mouthy and opinionated.

You're pretty ******** helpful, if I do say so myself. Especially when it comes to helping me sort out my own native faith. Sometimes your comments on Double Faith have a way of... turning on the light in a dark room for me.  

[TeaDidikai]

Collowrath

You're pretty ******** helpful, if I do say so myself. Especially when it comes to helping me sort out my own native faith. Sometimes your comments on Double Faith have a way of... turning on the light in a dark room for me.

ninja

I'm just here to convince all the Godless Heathens to return to Christ.  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

Collowrath

You're pretty ******** helpful, if I do say so myself. Especially when it comes to helping me sort out my own native faith. Sometimes your comments on Double Faith have a way of... turning on the light in a dark room for me.

ninja

I'm just here to convince all the Godless Heathens to return to Christ.

But... I'm a heathen with lots of gods... lol  

[CuAnnan]

TeaDidikai

Thirdly, it speaks of arrogance. Do you sincerely believe that none of us have ever heard of Yeshua? Of YHVH? Of those religious traditions? We aren't ignorant. We're only now starting to see children being born into pagan families. Most people here were raised in Christian households. That arrogance is contrary to actually caring for someone.

I'm going to chime in on this one. I realise the flyting is over and done with and that the OP has admitted their mistake and apologised (however insincere I may find the apology), I believe this bears mentioning.

Calling it arrogance is linguistically fine, I agree. However, if we use the term "Prideful" we get to the root of the matter. Pride (as opposed to pride) is a sin. It is a seperation of one's self from his fellow man and placing one's self above them. In doing so, one is leaving grace. They are automatically violating the LoA by saying "I am better than you". See James 4.6 for scriptural support. There are other scriptural supports but I don't have them to hand any more.

That site and, in particularl, the posting of the link were not just arrogant, they were Prideful.

Violet Song jat Shariff

TeaDidikai

Violet Song jat Shariff

Baptised as an infant into the Episcopalian church.
Baptised as a teenager into a Baptist church.

Whoa. Those are some pretty heavy covenants.
How are you dealing with those broken oaths again?

Yea I know. I'm doubly ********.
I have a few different ideas being tossed around and I'm not entirely sure which way to go yet.

Talk to Yeshua. He's good about getting His Father to behave.

Deoridhe

YHWH is no one to deal with broken covenants easily...

I question the validity of the covenant.
If we look at this from a legalistic point of view, then in order to enter into a contract you need to be of sound mind, capable of understanding the terms and capable of giving consent.
Also, you have to look at whether or not the covenant is being honoured or even acknowledged by the other "signatories".

Deoridhe

You could go the "protection of another deity" route.

I don't like this one, as a knee jerk reaction. It's a bit reactionary. The God that Yeshua is/was/followed can be reasoned with. I would suggest approaching Him (probably through Yeshua first, though failing that through more direct means {you could always get his mammy to bend his ear}) first. It's more.... honest?

Deoridhe

There might be some with a bone to pick with YHWH who would be willing for sacrifices and oaths.

Beware the law of equivalent exchange. I know someone who lost an arm, a leg and a brother's body through that one.... oh wait... that was an anime..... I should sleep sometime today.

Deoridhe

You may end up finding yourself in the same boat again, though, with oaths to another god that you now need to break.

A God, it should be mentioned, who may not be as big up on the whole "love and forgiveness" speel.

Deoridhe

Breaking oaths is a lot easier when both sides are amicable.

I prefer the term "dissolving" for that instance. Or releasing.

AngryRobotsInc.

I didn't realize until....years after I broke with the Catholic church that, "Hey. Those oaths are still valid in the eyes of that faith. ....this could be a problem."

Again. I don't know that they are. I'm not presuming to speak for the God of Catholicism, He has a Son for that, but he's big into his Justice.
What age were you when you made your Confirmation? Did you understand the questions being asked?

Did you get any of the following?

• it roots us more deeply in the divine filiation which makes us cry, "Abba! Father!" (Romans 8:15);
  
• it unites us more firmly to Christ;
  
• it increases the gifts of the Holy Spirit in us;
  
  
  • Wisdom- With the gift of wisdom, we see God at work in our lives and in the world. For the wise person, the wonders of nature, historical events, and the ups and downs of our lives take on deeper meaning. The matters of judgment about the truth, and being able to see the whole image of God.
    
  • Understanding - With the gift of understanding, we comprehend how we need to live as a follower of Jesus Christ. A person with understanding is not confused by all the conflicting messages in our culture about the right way to live. Also called "Common Sense," the gift of understanding perfects a person's speculative reason in the apprehension of truth. It is the gift whereby self-evident principles are known, Aquinas writes[1].
    
  • Counsel (Right Judgment) - With the gift of right judgment, we know the difference between right and wrong, and we choose to do what is right. A person with right judgment avoids sin and lives out the values taught by Jesus. The gift of truth that allows the person to respond prudently, and happily to believe our Christ the Lord
    
  • Fortitude (Courage) - With the gift of courage, we overcome our fear and are willing to take risks as a follower of Jesus. A person with courage is willing to stand up for what is right in the sight of God, even if it means accepting rejection, verbal abuse, or even physical harm and death. The gift of Courage allows people the firmness of mind that is required both in doing good and in enduring evil, especially with regard to goods or evils that are difficult.
    
  • Knowledge - With the gift of knowledge, we understand the meaning of God's Revelation, especially as expressed in the life and words of Jesus Christ. A person with knowledge is always learning more about the scriptures and Tradition. The gift of knowledge is more than an accumulation of facts.
    
  • Piety (Reverence) - With the gift of reverence, sometimes called piety, we have a deep sense of respect for God and the Church. A person with reverence recognizes our total reliance on God and comes before God with humility, trust, and love. Piety is the gift whereby, at the Holy Spirit's instigation, we pay worship and duty to God as our Father, Aquinas writes.
    
  • Fear of the Lord (Awe of God) - With the gift of wonder and awe you who betrayed (fear of the lord), we are aware of the glory and majesty of God. A person with wonder and awe knows that God is the perfection of all we desire: perfect knowledge, perfect goodness, perfect power, and perfect love. This gift is described by Aquinas as a fear of separating oneself from God. He describes the gift as a "filial fear," like a child's fear of offending his father, rather than a "servile fear," that is, a fear of punishment. Also known as knowing God is all powerful.
    
  
  
• it renders our bond with the Church more perfect;
  
• it gives us a special strength of the Holy Spirit to spread and defend the faith by word and action as true witnesses of Christ, to confess the name of Christ boldly, and never to be ashamed of the Cross:
  

Recall then that you have received the spiritual seal, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of right judgment and courage, the spirit of knowledge and reverence, the spirit of holy fear in God's presence. Guard what you have received. God the Father has marked you with his sign; Christ the Lord has confirmed you and has placed his pledge, the Spirit, in your hearts.

AngryRobotsInc.

I feel...spiritually dead, within the Catholic faith specifically, Christian faith in general.

I felt empty too. Actually, more than empty, I felt hollowed.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Strangely enough, I have leaned more from re-examining what I have lost, than from what is before me.

Ultimately, tho, I have come to the conclusion that my own ideals for a better world do not need like mind, they need like action. I am transcending the understanding of conversion. It is losing it's relevance.

The world I wish to live in is one were actions, rather than allegiances are telling. Then again, some allegiances may script ones actions...  

[Deoridhe]

CuAnnan

Beware the law of equivalent exchange. I know someone who lost an arm, a leg and a brother's body through that one.... oh wait... that was an anime..... I should sleep sometime today.

*kisses onna forehead* Sleep sweet, my darling.

Also, no contest on what you said.  

[CuAnnan]

Deoridhe

*kisses onna forehead* Sleep sweet, my darling.

Nope, still awake.

Deoridhe

Also, no contest on what you said.

Course not. That's coz I'm awesome.  

[Gho the Girl]

VampireMetal

TeaDidikai

VampireMetal

because im a crazy idiot who cares about people, even if i dont even know there names

Explain how this is a demonstration of care please.

its basically us saying sorry, check it out if you want to understand. you might not like it and what im doing is kind of weird, but i dont care, because i feel like i need to do it. dunno why, but i do

How is telling people they aren't welcome loving?