This is a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway thread

[Ashley the Bee]

whiporwill-o

Ashley the Bee

GCF...
LCM...

yes, that helps me a lot! now if only i can't remember it. sweatdrop

edit: i hope you don't mind, i would like to copy and paste this to print off for my notes.

Please do so. I'm glad that it was helpful.  

[whiporwill-o]

Ashley the Bee

whiporwill-o

Ashley the Bee

GCF...
LCM...

yes, that helps me a lot! now if only i can't remember it. sweatdrop

edit: i hope you don't mind, i would like to copy and paste this to print off for my notes.

Please do so. I'm glad that it was helpful.

thank you biggrin

i really appreciate how much the people in this guild help me out! whee heart  

[TeaDidikai]

whiporwill-o

i really appreciate how much the people in this guild help me out! whee heart

Hesh. If word gets out that we're not unreasonable elitist assholes, what are people going to have left to complain about?  

[whiporwill-o]

TeaDidikai

whiporwill-o

i really appreciate how much the people in this guild help me out! whee heart

Hesh. If word gets out that we're not unreasonable elitist assholes, what are people going to have left to complain about?

i'll try to keep it under wraps, lol. can't ruin your reputations. ninja
but i'll love you guys anyway!  

[TeaDidikai]

whiporwill-o

i'll try to keep it under wraps, lol. can't ruin your reputations. ninja
but i'll love you guys anyway!

~pokes you with a stick~ Ha! Now no one will confuse us for "The Nice One".  

[whiporwill-o]

TeaDidikai

whiporwill-o

i'll try to keep it under wraps, lol. can't ruin your reputations. ninja
but i'll love you guys anyway!

~pokes you with a stick~ Ha! Now no one will confuse us for "The Nice One".

i have been poke-ed *sniffles* emo  

[Recursive Paradox]

TeaDidikai

I find myself in an interesting position when it comes to translating concepts into English.

For example, there is a host of behavior that is translated as "crazy" in English from the dialects of Rroma my family uses that range from mild behavior problems to dangerous actions to classic Simpson D'oh! moments. Which leaves me wondering in situations where the kind of -ism isn't culturally present in one, but the translation would evoke such, what is left when it comes to accurately communicating ideas.

That's generally the problem when translating from a culture with different -isms in it to one with another set. You're stuck using a language that in and of itself is filled with concepts rooted in ableism. English, unfortunately, associates conceptually behavior problems, dangerous actions and classic "D'oh" moments with mental illness and not being neurotypical. Oftentimes directly.

I don't have a great solution. I guess you could search for other English words that are closer to the concepts from your culture without the ableist roots from their own concepts. Or even describe things conceptually (which has the downer of making one more verbose).  

[Recursive Paradox]

Bastemhet

Recursive Paradox

Of course the water gets so muddied by people conflating "personally offensive and stigmatizing" and "propping up and enabling systemic oppression by continuing the use of concepts that are built on oppressive and -ism sourced reasoning as their roots".

Very well articulated. I think this is a good way to approach things since the "it hurts people" p.o.v. fails to even rouse the sympathies of others, unfortunately. But I think both are equally important.

Well, there's another problem with, "it hurts people" and that is: lots of things hurt people. Necessary things. Like jailing rapists. Or telling a fluffy bunny that she's wrong and full of s**t. Something being offensive to someone is reason used by many homophobes for considering homosexuality something that needs to be suppressed.

Offense is a poor reason to not do something unless you care about the person you're talking with. Actual social damage or boosting socially damaging systems is the good reason.  

[TeaDidikai]

Recursive Paradox

TeaDidikai

I find myself in an interesting position when it comes to translating concepts into English.

For example, there is a host of behavior that is translated as "crazy" in English from the dialects of Rroma my family uses that range from mild behavior problems to dangerous actions to classic Simpson D'oh! moments. Which leaves me wondering in situations where the kind of -ism isn't culturally present in one, but the translation would evoke such, what is left when it comes to accurately communicating ideas.

That's generally the problem when translating from a culture with different -isms in it to one with another set. You're stuck using a language that in and of itself is filled with concepts rooted in ableism. English, unfortunately, associates conceptually behavior problems, dangerous actions and classic "D'oh" moments with mental illness and not being neurotypical. Oftentimes directly.

I don't have a great solution. I guess you could search for other English words that are closer to the concepts from your culture without the ableist roots from their own concepts. Or even describe things conceptually (which has the downer of making one more verbose).

At which point isn't the forced assimilation of foreign concepts into contexts they don't belong relying on ethnic privilege to enforce it's stereotypes onto the ethnic minority?  

[Recursive Paradox]

TeaDidikai

Recursive Paradox

TeaDidikai

I find myself in an interesting position when it comes to translating concepts into English.

For example, there is a host of behavior that is translated as "crazy" in English from the dialects of Rroma my family uses that range from mild behavior problems to dangerous actions to classic Simpson D'oh! moments. Which leaves me wondering in situations where the kind of -ism isn't culturally present in one, but the translation would evoke such, what is left when it comes to accurately communicating ideas.

That's generally the problem when translating from a culture with different -isms in it to one with another set. You're stuck using a language that in and of itself is filled with concepts rooted in ableism. English, unfortunately, associates conceptually behavior problems, dangerous actions and classic "D'oh" moments with mental illness and not being neurotypical. Oftentimes directly.

I don't have a great solution. I guess you could search for other English words that are closer to the concepts from your culture without the ableist roots from their own concepts. Or even describe things conceptually (which has the downer of making one more verbose).

At which point isn't the forced assimilation of foreign concepts into contexts they don't belong relying on ethnic privilege to enforce it's stereotypes onto the ethnic minority?

I would argue that if I were to translate words from one language into phrases from another that have those -ism concepts that are out of context, I am the reason for those concepts being forced together even though it makes no conceptual sense. Not the language or culture I am translating to. However, I do agree that anyone who assumes that, due to that translation, the words from your culture are ableist is ethnocentric and unthinking.

So say I translated a phrase into another culture that had a certain -ism and my translated phrase used an -ism word from that culture. These concepts being pushed together inappropriately is my fault for translating poorly to begin with but anyone who assumes that my culture has these same -ism aspects as a result is still ethnocentric.

Let's use a hypothetical.

Let's say I was from a culture that didn't have ableism towards people with learning disabilities. We had a word in our culture for people who are slowed down by a shocking or confusing statement. The word's meaning is literally "slowed down in thought". Basically describing someone who hears something massive or major and actually needs to take longer to think than normal for themselves in order to comprehend this unusual thing (because of how unusual it is. Sort of like "my mind is blown").

I translate this word into the word "retarded". It's the closest thing I'm able to find to the concept of being slowed down in thought among English words.

The ableist concepts tied to the word "retarded" do not belong with my hypothetical word from my hypothetical culture. To state that the word from my culture is ableist would surely be ethnocentric (and you'll notice that I do not regard your words from your culture that translate to crazy as ableist). They do not connect to them.

However, I choose that word as the translation target. I am the one who has combined them, not the culture I'm visiting. After all, I am attempting to use their language to communicate my concepts in my culture. It's my responsibility to do that correctly and not use words that do not connect properly. So, by translating my word to the word "retarded" I am the one pushing the concepts out of context and creating the association. I should translate better to avoid it while members of that culture should remember the flaws of translation and not assume my culture is as theirs.

Makes sense?

Basically, I shouldn't translate to a word that doesn't connect conceptually and involves -isms and people shouldn't assume my culture has the -isms theirs does.  

[TeaDidikai]

You're position makes sense, but it also uncovered the reason why language at it's inception would need to be of an -ism in order for there to be no room for it's application to exist outside of perpetuating that ism.  

[Bastemhet]

Recursive Paradox

Bastemhet

Recursive Paradox

Of course the water gets so muddied by people conflating "personally offensive and stigmatizing" and "propping up and enabling systemic oppression by continuing the use of concepts that are built on oppressive and -ism sourced reasoning as their roots".

Very well articulated. I think this is a good way to approach things since the "it hurts people" p.o.v. fails to even rouse the sympathies of others, unfortunately. But I think both are equally important.

Well, there's another problem with, "it hurts people" and that is: lots of things hurt people. Necessary things. Like jailing rapists. Or telling a fluffy bunny that she's wrong and full of s**t. Something being offensive to someone is reason used by many homophobes for considering homosexuality something that needs to be suppressed.

Offense is a poor reason to not do something unless you care about the person you're talking with. Actual social damage or boosting socially damaging systems is the good reason.

Right. I think I was just stopping at the hurt part without fully developing why that hurt mattered in the first place. I kinda knew what I meant but it took a second to figure it out.  

[AniMajor]

So, let's say I wanted to invite some people to the guild, because I think it would do them some good.

How would you approach the subject without making the person think that you're saying "you're an idiot, but this will fix that"?  

[Collowrath]

AniMajor

How would you approach the subject without making the person think that you're saying "you're an idiot, but this will fix that"?

"Hey, this is a nice guild. We learn a lot from each other and I think this place might be beneficial to you as well."

?  

[AniMajor]

Collowrath

AniMajor

How would you approach the subject without making the person think that you're saying "you're an idiot, but this will fix that"?

"Hey, this is a nice guild. We learn a lot from each other and I think this place might be beneficial to you as well."

?

I'm worried about them seeing the name and thinking that I think that they're fluffy, and turning them off from joining.