This is a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway thread

[Namikikyo]

TeaDidikai

Gho the Girl

TeaDidikai

Gho the Girl

I don't know enough about hoodoo/voodoo to say.

Why would it be tied to those two traditions?

Oh, when I made that comment about store bought dolls I was thinking about the "Do it yourself Voodoo Kit" that I see at stores.

I've often wondered, save for pop-culture's understanding, what made them "Voodoo".

From my understanding, Voodoo is a religion and Hoodoo is the tradition's practice without the religion. So wouldn't it be more "Hoodoo" then "Voodoo"?

And do that Voodoo that we do.. do. whee

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Namikikyo

Well, from what I've read, I really like Hedge Witchcraft which is considered Folk, right?

What do you consider Hedge Witchcraft.

From what I've read, it's a tradition that deals with shamanic practices and other worldly travel? I know that's not all of it, but that's what I can take off the top of my head without looking something up. sweatdrop

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Why did my heart drop the moment I saw this? sad

Because you're nervous. But it's a valid question. One you need to be able to answer before you go further.

Regardless of which path I take, I am confident that it's what I meant to do. It's just the feeling I've always had even before Paganism.

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Synnthetika

What exactly is Hedge Witchcraft?

Good question. I can't say I've seen the Hedge Witches agree to date.

My impression- my synthesis after listening to/reading a bunch of Hedge Witches opinions on the matter is that it's an Otherworld tradition in a similiar style to Wica. That is to say, it's modeled to look like Old English Witchcraft- even though most of the etymological justification is actually found in Old High Germanic.

I've seen the term applied to such otherworld traditions, to what people popularly call "Green Witchcraft" (don't get me started on how absurd I find that kind of title) and pretty much everything in between.

I think if I found myself interested in this sort of thing, I'd likely skip the modern facsimile and root around for the historical practices people toss into a blender under the same title- especially since a crapton of what is published is clearly influenced by Gardner and Leland.

But hey- we all know what a stick in the mud I can be.

Why didn't I just copy and paste this to my answer? gonk

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Namikikyo

The way some Neo Pagans talked about them, I thought they may be these super good guardian elemental things. I was lied to, apparently.

Wouldn't go so far as to say you were lied to.
Some of them might be.
Some of them might not be.
Some of them resemble Infernals and Supernals from different Middle Eastern traditions.
Sometimes they are Gregori.
Some of them are referenced in initiatory cults.

Hence why I was looking for a tradition to provide context.

That's a lot of interpretations of these things.

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What exactly have these creatures done that make them so bad? O_O

Depends on the tradition.

Some of them left their realm and duty in order to rape women on earth.
But then, some of them might not be bad blokes at all.

Interesting. Very interesting.

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But isn't that the price for doing something of that nature?

Sometimes.

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And magic can also attract good, right?

Sometimes.

Well, at least I'm getting something right. Even if it's only sometimes. xp

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With the right protection and personal protocols for certian situations, that price can be avoided?

Avoiding paying... Hmmmm...

Feel like exploring that?

I had something funny and witty to say, but I think just a "Yes, I would" will have to do.

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Bastemhet

Wish I could help but I'll leave the answers to people more qualified.

The only thing that makes me "qualified" is a handful of theological studies in college and way too much time on my hands when I worked in a bookstore.
Also? Keen research skills.

eek No wonder you're a fountian of knowledge.  

[Namikikyo]

Bastemhet

Namikikyo

No one really has to answer the blob of questions above. sweatdrop

lol You're so cute Nami! whee

Awe, Thank you.. redface Lol. whee

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Wish I could help but I'll leave the answers to people more qualified.

As long as you have an opinion, you are perfectly qualified to answer them.

 

[TeaDidikai]

Namikikyo

From my understanding, Voodoo is a religion and Hoodoo is the tradition's practice without the religion. So wouldn't it be more "Hoodoo" then "Voodoo"?

And do that Voodoo that we do.. do. whee

What I'm asking is why people think that a couple pieces of fabric sewn together = anything other than a cheap doll.

As to Hoodoo and Voodoo, they are two distinct traditions- both of which are religious.

Voodoo, Vodou and Santeria being mostly syncretic traditions that blend African, Catholic and some Caribbean influences together. This is in contrast to Hoodoo which includes Native American traditions.

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From what I've read, it's a tradition that deals with shamanic practices and other worldly travel? I know that's not all of it, but that's what I can take off the top of my head without looking something up. sweatdrop

Shaman, like Wica, is a specific tradition's title, just to let you know.

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Regardless of which path I take, I am confident that it's what I meant to do. It's just the feeling I've always had even before Paganism.

Next question would be, "What do you think Magic is?"

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That's a lot of interpretations of these things.

Byproduct of people borrowing from other traditions without making important distinctions.

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I had something funny and witty to say, but I think just a "Yes, I would" will have to do.

Let's start by you explaining what you meant.  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

Bastemhet

Wish I could help but I'll leave the answers to people more qualified.

The only thing that makes me "qualified" is a handful of theological studies in college and way too much time on my hands when I worked in a bookstore.
Also? Keen research skills.

Ooh, plus experience, right? Unless you don't have any? Hmm. As for me, though, I'm not saying I'm swearing it off forever. I'm just taking Fiddler's lecture to heart. I'm not going to mess around with stuff unless I know the consequences. I still plan on learning more about Heka. This is also necessary to give a well-rounded answer to others in the Kemetic path that don't have access to the resources that I do. I'm not going to teach people stuff unless I first know what I'm talking about. That would be irresponsible! 3nodding And ethically detestable, for me anyway.  

[Bastemhet]

Namikikyo

Bastemhet

Namikikyo

No one really has to answer the blob of questions above. sweatdrop

lol You're so cute Nami! whee

Awe, Thank you.. redface Lol. whee

heart

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Wish I could help but I'll leave the answers to people more qualified.

As long as you have an opinion, you are perfectly qualified to answer them.

Nah...opinions can be wrong, too. sweatdrop But I will say this: when it comes to magic, better safe than sorry.  

[Namikikyo]

TeaDidikai

Namikikyo

From my understanding, Voodoo is a religion and Hoodoo is the tradition's practice without the religion. So wouldn't it be more "Hoodoo" then "Voodoo"?

And do that Voodoo that we do.. do. whee

What I'm asking is why people think that a couple pieces of fabric sewn together = anything other than a cheap doll.

I know, I was just asking a question on it. sweatdrop

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As to Hoodoo and Voodoo, they are two distinct traditions- both of which are religious.

Voodoo, Vodou and Santeria being mostly syncretic traditions that blend African, Catholic and some Caribbean influences together. This is in contrast to Hoodoo which includes Native American traditions.

Oh, thank you for correcting me.

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From what I've read, it's a tradition that deals with shamanic practices and other worldly travel? I know that's not all of it, but that's what I can take off the top of my head without looking something up. sweatdrop

Shaman, like Wica, is a specific tradition's title, just to let you know.

Noted. Thank you very much, Tea.

I remember someone else telling me that too, which is why I said shamanic practices. Is it bad to say that too? Even when describing something?

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Regardless of which path I take, I am confident that it's what I meant to do. It's just the feeling I've always had even before Paganism.

Next question would be, "What do you think Magic is?"

Honestly, I'm not exactly sure what it is.

But I know that it is an artform by with the user can manipulate, people, objects, energies and the outcome of an event by supernatural means for a desired result.

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That's a lot of interpretations of these things.

Byproduct of people borrowing from other traditions without making important distinctions.

Oh. Understood.

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I had something funny and witty to say, but I think just a "Yes, I would" will have to do.

Let's start by you explaining what you meant.

Yes, I will explain.

What I meant was that if magic attracted an unwanted being then based on your belief of protection, banishing, cleansing, and such of the like, you could do away with the thing or at least keep it at bay long enough until you can find a better way, if not have to deal with it at all.

Not to say you can do whatever you'd like and get away with it, No. Without knowledge and practice one may not know how to be so careful, protected and so able find ways to kindly escape such atrocities.

I'm afraid I'm not making much sense. I'm trying to piece all my thoughts together, but it seems this quilt it looking more like a bad halloween costume. xD  

[TeaDidikai]

Namikikyo

I remember someone else telling me that too, which is why I said shamanic practices. Is it bad to say that too? Even when describing something?

I tend to see it as cultural misappropriation myself.

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But I know that it is an artform by with the user can manipulate, people, objects, energies and the outcome of an event by supernatural means for a desired result.

And where did you find that definition?

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What I meant was that if magic attracted an unwanted being then based on your belief of protection, banishing, cleansing, and such of the like, you could do away with the thing or at least keep it at bay long enough until you can find a better way, if not have to deal with it at all.

Not to say you can do whatever you'd like and get away with it, No. Without knowledge and practice one may not know how to be so careful, protected and so able find ways to kindly escape such atrocities.

I'm afraid I'm not making much sense. I'm trying to piece all my thoughts together, but it seems this quilt it looking more like a bad halloween costume. xD

Okay. Let's start by refining it.

What about magic would you say catches attention?

Bastemhet

Ooh, plus experience, right?

That too. I was addressing the more scholarly elements of the discussions.

The ratio of historical documentation and research to personal experiences is heavily waited toward documentation. I tend not to drag personal stuff into debates much.  

[Gho the Girl]

Re: contradictions between deities: I've found that certain deities have this core conceit among their followers that they are the only real deity in town. YHVH, and Allah for instance.

Allah has his followers take an oath that Allah is the one and only god, yes?

So unless Allah makes his followers lie, and that Allah is a liar, the idea that Allah exists at least from my perspective runs counter to the idea of other gods existing.  

[TeaDidikai]

Gho the Girl

Re: contradictions between deities: I've found that certain deities have this core conceit among their followers that they are the only real deity in town. YHVH, and Allah for instance.

Allah has his followers take an oath that Allah is the one and only god, yes?

So unless Allah makes his followers lie, and that Allah is a liar, the idea that Allah exists at least from my perspective runs counter to the idea of other gods existing.

Monolaterlism in Islam isn't really doable, but since they claim their god is the same god of Abraham, then it becomes a function of their tradition's commentary running contrary to the tradition's historical understandings.  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

Bastemhet

Ooh, plus experience, right?

That too. I was addressing the more scholarly elements of the discussions.

The ratio of historical documentation and research to personal experiences is heavily waited toward documentation. I tend not to drag personal stuff into debates much.

That makes sense. But then can UPG or mystical experiences then be excluded from debate? Or are nonfalsifiable claims inherently nondebatable? Just curious. Also, what's the difference between debate and discussion? I thought you two were just doing the latter.  

[Gho the Girl]

TeaDidikai

Gho the Girl

Re: contradictions between deities: I've found that certain deities have this core conceit among their followers that they are the only real deity in town. YHVH, and Allah for instance.

Allah has his followers take an oath that Allah is the one and only god, yes?

So unless Allah makes his followers lie, and that Allah is a liar, the idea that Allah exists at least from my perspective runs counter to the idea of other gods existing.

Monolaterlism in Islam isn't really doable, but since they claim their god is the same god of Abraham, then it becomes a function of their tradition's commentary running contrary to the tradition's historical understandings.

*brain oozes out of ear*
I'm sorry, I didn't quite get what that all means. gonk  

[Bastemhet]

Gho the Girl

TeaDidikai

Gho the Girl

Re: contradictions between deities: I've found that certain deities have this core conceit among their followers that they are the only real deity in town. YHVH, and Allah for instance.

Allah has his followers take an oath that Allah is the one and only god, yes?

So unless Allah makes his followers lie, and that Allah is a liar, the idea that Allah exists at least from my perspective runs counter to the idea of other gods existing.

Monolaterlism in Islam isn't really doable, but since they claim their god is the same god of Abraham, then it becomes a function of their tradition's commentary running contrary to the tradition's historical understandings.

*brain oozes out of ear*
I'm sorry, I didn't quite get what that all means. gonk

Their tradition doesn't allow for monolateralism, but since their god is the same as the Abrahamic god, the Islamic tradition itself is running counter to historical tradition concerning the Abrahamic god.  

[Gho the Girl]

Bastemhet

Gho the Girl

TeaDidikai

Gho the Girl

Re: contradictions between deities: I've found that certain deities have this core conceit among their followers that they are the only real deity in town. YHVH, and Allah for instance.

Allah has his followers take an oath that Allah is the one and only god, yes?

So unless Allah makes his followers lie, and that Allah is a liar, the idea that Allah exists at least from my perspective runs counter to the idea of other gods existing.

Monolaterlism in Islam isn't really doable, but since they claim their god is the same god of Abraham, then it becomes a function of their tradition's commentary running contrary to the tradition's historical understandings.

*brain oozes out of ear*
I'm sorry, I didn't quite get what that all means. gonk

Their tradition doesn't allow for monolateralism, but since their god is the same as the Abrahamic god, the Islamic tradition itself is running counter to historical tradition concerning the Abrahamic god.

Huh. I getcha.

Why would they do that?  

[Bastemhet]

Gho the Girl

Bastemhet

Gho the Girl

TeaDidikai

Gho the Girl

Re: contradictions between deities: I've found that certain deities have this core conceit among their followers that they are the only real deity in town. YHVH, and Allah for instance.

Allah has his followers take an oath that Allah is the one and only god, yes?

So unless Allah makes his followers lie, and that Allah is a liar, the idea that Allah exists at least from my perspective runs counter to the idea of other gods existing.

Monolaterlism in Islam isn't really doable, but since they claim their god is the same god of Abraham, then it becomes a function of their tradition's commentary running contrary to the tradition's historical understandings.

*brain oozes out of ear*
I'm sorry, I didn't quite get what that all means. gonk

Their tradition doesn't allow for monolateralism, but since their god is the same as the Abrahamic god, the Islamic tradition itself is running counter to historical tradition concerning the Abrahamic god.

Huh. I getcha.

Why would they do that?

eek *shrug*

I was just interpreting the Tea-ese. lol  

[TeaDidikai]

Bastemhet

That makes sense. But then can UPG or mystical experiences then be excluded from debate? Or are nonfalsifiable claims inherently nondebatable? Just curious.

You can debate UPG. Hell, I encourage it. I just tend to offer more external sources because, well, I know the ins and outs of the context for my UPG. I tend to not offer it as an argument because I don't want people misunderstanding me and thus make assumptions and errors.

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Also, what's the difference between debate and discussion? I thought you two were just doing the latter.

Denotationaly? Formality.

Gho>> As to the motivations for monotheism in Islam, I don't hazard a guess.

Any number of things could have brought it about.