What ruins a good fantasy story?

[tecche]

NightIntent

tecche

Wicked.

I have just thought up one thing that will drive a stake through the heart of any good fantasy story: when one has a certain number of tasks to do before a certain date (ie - homework) and it is the night before this date. You have a lovely book in front of you, and you decide you can put off this task just a little bit longer........five hours later. You've read a delightful story, but then realize that you now have to have said task(s) done within, oh in eight hours. You also have to sleep (maybe) and eat (maybe), and get have everything done, and be in the right place by the appointed time.

Nothing quite takes the wind out of the sails of a good story, than realizing you now have to do another four hours of not-fun reading, another two or more of writing, and you can no longer put it off.

I'm not a procrastinator. No, not at all. ninja

xp I never do that. I finish books at school. During class. That way, I have time after school to go online and do homework. And, of course, start another book. Which is usually reserved for after I'm halfway-finsihed with homework. I picked up some bad work habits this school year. n.n" I haven't completely finished my homework at home in months.

Projects, though, I make sure to finish early, so I'm not rushing incessantly near when theyr'e due. Speaking of whcih, I need to finish my book for my report that's not due 'til June. I still need to find a non-fiction book for that....

There is a fine art to reading in class. One which I had to give up practicing for two-fold reasons. One, it got me into trouble one too many times, plus I'm paranoid about getting caught not paying attention. Second, listening in class is actually how I learn most of the material. Which is sort of a two-edged sword, because it lets me get by without doing as much of the required reading, leaving me more time to read fun stuff. I picked up my bad school habits in middle school. They're very difficult to get rid of.  

[NightIntent]

I read in class when we go over homework. Mostly in math class, when I can get away with it. We go over homework for most of the period in that class, so I get a lot of reading time in. Or that night's homework, whcih is always useful. I stopped reading all through classes back in sixth grade. Otherwise, I wouldn't pass any classes. That was why I liked having TA as one period last year during first semester. I could either do my homework or read. Mostly reading. It was a nice kick-back class, since I didn't have any curriculum. My dad won't let me take it again, since it was just a filler last year.  

[Lady_Altheia]

I think what ruins a good fantasy strory is when there is too much history and the book goes very slow. That's why I can't read Tad Williams.  

[Harbone]

Macho heroes and determined princesses, particularly attractive, somehow sensitive, know-it-all "fiery maned" ones. I'm just so sick of those characters.

And that goes equally for both macho heroes or determined princesses. I'll buy determined peasant girl, but, the more history I read, the less I can connect with any story where the royals are even halfway decent people (and effective rulers too boot!) I can sort of get my mind around soppy, ineffectual royalty who at least try, ones who exist as a sort of plug in the power vacuum, but a world with enough magic to seat a genuinely good and wise ruler on the throne is just too far away for me to comfortably enjoy.

I think that's why I started getting into revisionist stories where the supporting cast gets the limelight. I'd really like to know what those mice who got turned into horses did later on in life, or why the old lady was sitting on a log waiting for the idiot hero to come by in the first place. That's the kind of fantasyland I can enter.

Oh, and now that Rowling has totally vilified the only character I could really identify with in the series (Snape) I can finally come out and say that Harry Potter has got to be the stupidest junior wizard ever born. I had questions about supporting the series at all and now I've just plain had it

How does that ruin a book? By eliminating the not-so-good people, the people who are trying, you cut off those of us who have come to distrust purist idealism.  

[Lady_Altheia]

I see. Well I ke to go for the underdogs. The underdogs should get more attention.  

[Shiama]

well i think when someone draws something out really long or just doesnt give enough information ruins a book even if it isnt fantasy.  

[[[IrishNinja]]]

I think when the book just ends,well the series^_^haha.  

[Talon StarDrifter]

Hm. There are a few things that would ruin a good fantasy book for me:

-A sad ending. No one likes sad endings, where Evil prevails and everyone dies, or when the favorite character is killed off.

-Sad romance. If the main heroine of the story has a 'crush' that is stolen away by another heroine, then the whole thing will suck until the end.

-Predictable endings. I can sometimes guess what will happen in the book, so that makes me disappointed that the darn book is so predictable.

-Unoriginal plots. There is always the classic tale of young ladies getting married off to someone they don't know, and them running off before/after the wedding and they bump into some dude that they totally fall for. Or that other tale where women/men are strong, stubborn, fiery people who are unable to be tamed. Then along comes the equally strong, stubborn, fiery person and they fall in love. Y'get what I'm saying?
 

[NightIntent]

(Be prepared for sarcasm and spoilers in this post.)

I thought of one after reading a book called Seraphim: Cliched names. Oh my god, it's so annoying. For example, the main villain: Lucifer de Morte. And guess what! He's a demon! No, wait, better. he's a fallen angel. Original name, isn't it? Andandandandand the main character's name is... Seraphim D'Ange. And guess what! She's an angel. Yeah. That's original too, right? Yeah, totally. And the main romantic interest for the main character? Dominique San Juste. Who just happens to be a mercenary with morals. Yeah, that's so not cliched.

Geez, can't people come up with interesting names? It's not that hard to do. The plot wasn't bad, really. Again, not all that original--I could see what was coming next a mile off, and I'm awful with predictions--but the names just killed it.  

[Harbone]

I hate it when I agree with the moderator, but, in this case, I agree with the moderator. Boy, bad or careless names can really put you off. I can get really bad in old school sword and sorcery stuff, which often follows the R and Z law (almost all the names have R's and Z's in them, like Thagor or Damuz or Zargam.) This goes for place names as well as those of the heroes. Also, in any horror story, the name Greggor just sets my teeth on edge. I actually grew up with someone named Greggor, (he was a big, fat kid who had allergies to almost everything) it just got overused and, when you see it in a horror or modern-gothic romance, you just KNOW the character is supposed to be a deep and brooding hero. Grrrr!

(In a world with a vampire population, I suspect the name Greggor is like the name Petra was in Europe about 10 or 15 years ago, just about every third girl you met in Eastern Europe was named Petra. In the US it was McKenzie. Some of these girls were good, some were bad, but you had to wonder about their folks. Say! That might be a fun idea for a vampire character, a guy named Greggor who kind of resents it, especially since he knows six other vampires named Greggor.)  

[Merlinssister]

Harbone

Macho heroes and determined princesses, particularly attractive, somehow sensitive, know-it-all "fiery maned" ones. I'm just so sick of those characters.

And that goes equally for both macho heroes or determined princesses. I'll buy determined peasant girl, but, the more history I read, the less I can connect with any story where the royals are even halfway decent people (and effective rulers too boot!) I can sort of get my mind around soppy, ineffectual royalty who at least try, ones who exist as a sort of plug in the power vacuum, but a world with enough magic to seat a genuinely good and wise ruler on the throne is just too far away for me to comfortably enjoy.

I think that's why I started getting into revisionist stories where the supporting cast gets the limelight. I'd really like to know what those mice who got turned into horses did later on in life, or why the old lady was sitting on a log waiting for the idiot hero to come by in the first place. That's the kind of fantasyland I can enter.

Oh, and now that Rowling has totally vilified the only character I could really identify with in the series (Snape) I can finally come out and say that Harry Potter has got to be the stupidest junior wizard ever born. I had questions about supporting the series at all and now I've just plain had it

How does that ruin a book? By eliminating the not-so-good people, the people who are trying, you cut off those of us who have come to distrust purist idealism.

The verdict's still out on Snape really. He could pretty easily turn out to be good but it's not very likely now. I like to think of him as a good person who somehow got sucked into all of this and now can't find a way to get out.
I'm also starting to hate the stories which have a good side and a bad side, the world is never that simple. I think it would be more interesting if the 'good' guys are fighting for a cause that could hurt or kill many innocent people and the 'bad' side are just trying to help but doing it in the wrong way. 3nodding  

[Harbone]

Well, that makes me re-think what I said. I was always a little leery of the Harry Potter series, especially since I ran into the Books of Magic graphic novels first. But I think I was being too broad. When I read fantasy, I tend to read them as adventures, which don't always have time for a good sense of the grey areas. It's much easier to paint good and bad with broad strokes rather than, for instance, sitting back at the end of Dark City (the movie) and thinking, "Hey, Our Hero just committed genocide."

But, even in an adventure series, saying that "every evil wizard" comes out of Slytherin is just a bit too much! And, the nature of evil being subtle, the reasons WHY Snape went over aren't as important as the fact he went over. Yes, he was a good man forced to do bad, but screw that. It's hard to root for lucky-but-stupid people, anyway, and you pretty much have to root for Harry when you read those books.

So, has my opinion changed? I guess not, I just realized that the love of adventure deserved a nod. (And it sort of ties in with this thread, because confusing the love of adventure and the love of gore, or driving the love of adventure with genocidal hatred of a species, like orks or vampires or whatever, is a pretty quick way to ruin a book for yours truly!)  

[Merlinssister]

I do agree about the whole Slytherin thing. There has to be some who come out of the other houses rather than just being put into that house purely because they're evil.
Stopping to think about whether the good guys are actually doing the right thing can pretty much ruin the pace of the whole book and make you just stop reading it all together if you're particularly disgusted by what they're doing.
Sometimes with some books it's just easier to switch off your brain for a while when you're reading it, go with the flow - accepting that the good people are good and the bad people are bad - and accept them for what they are. That could be a bad thing with some books and at the end of the day it's all about why you enjoy reading.
Some people would love American Gods by Neil Gaiman because it makes you think but others would hate it for the same reason.
(I'm sorry if none of that makes any sense to you but I just typed whatever came into my head at the time sweatdrop )  

[Harbone]

No, I think it makes sense. American Gods by Gaiman is a good example. Gaiman isn't my favorite author, but he has a good style. His experience with comic books has taught him a good sense of pacing, so it's easier to forgive some of his rough spots than other authors.

When it comes right down to it, the style of the author helps, as does at least a nod toward human frailty. For instance, Rifkin, the hero of Will Shetterly's WITCHBLOOD, is a pretty standard fantasy hero - martial artist, touch of magic, makes wisecracks, gets into the sack with hot tomatoes a lot. However, the author takes time out here and there to have the hero make... not just mistakes, but humiliating mistakes. Ones that really seem to count without deadening the highly-charged pace of an action-adventure story. He also adds important touches of regret, in a siege scene, for instance, he mentions something along the lines of "I picked random targets and fired. It's always easiest when in battle not to think 'Ah! There goes somebody's Uncle!' 'That was a Big Sister, I just killed, surely." Or, "I wonder who's little boy that was?"

While the line is sarcastic and a bit cruel, it also reflects the horrible, yet thrilling, condition of the battle. My conscience is somewhat soothed by the fact that the author realizes this is a horrible thing and is taking time to note it, while at the same time, my visceral side gets its kicks. I know it's nasty, but I'd rather read about war than participate in it. That way the broken mugs I have at home are only porcelain.

On the other hand, that jerk John Carter, from the pen of Edgar Rice Burroughs, incesantly brags not only about his superhuman endurance (on Mars, he once fights for, like, three days non-stop, before going to sleep in a store room in the middle of an enemy fortress. He then awakens, unmolested, several days later.) But John Carter also speaks highly of his own "manly bloodlust" and how it must, at times, be sated through pure combat. Boy, that kind of thing really gets right up my craw.  

[Merlinssister]

I'll have to find the first book you were talking about, it seems interesting from what you said. Some fantasy just wouldn't be as good without the occaisional fight where loads of random people die. It can be a good way of getting out an urge to punch or kill the nearest person without the whole problem of having to clean the carpet afterwards. xd
I have to add that to my list of things which would ruin a good fantasy: superhuman heroes who never have to sleep and don't care about killing people and yet everyone else believes that they are good and perfect in every way. 3nodding