London bombed. the police lied.

[Zoutout]

As I said in the other thread: If anyone brandishes a gun, and shouts at you, you do exactly what they say.

Most people would run, but that's still the wrong thing to do, if you want to survive.  

[illyrianth]

and_solo_said

illyrianth

and_solo_said

I think that he kinda brought it upon himself by jumping a barrier in a terrorist area...

As I stated previously, if challenged by men with guns and I wasn't sure who they were? I'd run too. Might not get far, but I'd run.

It doesn't matter whether the men were terrorists or police, running away was still the most likely course of action to get him shot

Indeed....I wont deny that - but it is also the most likely course of action for ANYONE to take. Simple self preservation instinct only knows to get you out of the area/situation which threatens you - it doesn't bother with the physics of how fast bullets can travel compared to the speed of you running.  

[Zoutout]

Still, it doesn't matter that it's what most people would do. Most people would do what is most likely to get themselves killed.  

[Fourcolour]

illyrianth

and_solo_said

illyrianth

and_solo_said

I think that he kinda brought it upon himself by jumping a barrier in a terrorist area...

As I stated previously, if challenged by men with guns and I wasn't sure who they were? I'd run too. Might not get far, but I'd run.

It doesn't matter whether the men were terrorists or police, running away was still the most likely course of action to get him shot

Indeed....I wont deny that - but it is also the most likely course of action for ANYONE to take. Simple self preservation instinct only knows to get you out of the area/situation which threatens you - it doesn't bother with the physics of how fast bullets can travel compared to the speed of you running.

I'm interested to know how people know 'the most likely course of action for anyone to take'. I'd have thought most people would be paralysed with fear, then follow instructions myself.  

[Shadow of an Illusion]

I *heard* that he didnt have any work visa(although he did have a diiferent sort?) and that was why he was running. Not a great idea.
(The heard was in *s because it wasnt a particularly reliable source)


And they had to shoot him in the head because if he did have a bomb and they shot him in the body they might have set it off. I dont think 8 bullets was nessesary though.  

[and_solo_said]

ice_illusion

I *heard* that he didnt have any work visa(although he did have a diiferent sort?) and that was why he was running. Not a great idea.
(The heard was in *s because it wasnt a particularly reliable source)


And they had to shoot him in the head because if he did have a bomb and they shot him in the body they might have set it off. I dont think 8 bullets was nessesary though.

I heard his student visa had expired...which would explain why the police couldn't have checked who he was when he came out of the house  

[Fourcolour]

and_solo_said

ice_illusion

I *heard* that he didnt have any work visa(although he did have a diiferent sort?) and that was why he was running. Not a great idea.
(The heard was in *s because it wasnt a particularly reliable source)


And they had to shoot him in the head because if he did have a bomb and they shot him in the body they might have set it off. I dont think 8 bullets was nessesary though.

I heard his student visa had expired...which would explain why the police couldn't have checked who he was when he came out of the house

The beeb says his student visa expired months ago and he's been working illegally as an electrician ever since. It doesn't add an awful lot to the debate, but Daily Mail readers have stopped caring about his death since he's now 'Just another illegal'. stare  

[and_solo_said]

Fourcolour

and_solo_said

ice_illusion

I *heard* that he didnt have any work visa(although he did have a diiferent sort?) and that was why he was running. Not a great idea.
(The heard was in *s because it wasnt a particularly reliable source)


And they had to shoot him in the head because if he did have a bomb and they shot him in the body they might have set it off. I dont think 8 bullets was nessesary though.

I heard his student visa had expired...which would explain why the police couldn't have checked who he was when he came out of the house

The beeb says his student visa expired months ago and he's been working illegally as an electrician ever since. It doesn't add an awful lot to the debate, but Daily Mail readers have stopped caring about his death since he's now 'Just another illegal'. stare

I can see the Tory election posters now: 'The Conservative party; when you just want to shoot the bastards!'  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

Zoutout

Apparently he was innocent, but he brought it upon himself, and there was no real way for the police to have known (in a situation like that you have to make a decision in less than a second. It's easy to criticise, but I believe they made the right decision, even if it was a mistake)

yes lets allow the police to gun down people just because they wear a cap and a winter jacket... very clever. the police men that did this need put away. it was nothing short of murder.

Don't talk rubbish. He jumped a barrier, ignored armed police telling him to stop, and ran onto a train the day after 4 men tried to blow up more public transport. The police behaved admirably and did what needed to be done.

he didnt know that. all he seen was men with guns chasing him.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

AND i do not trust your police force as far as i could throw them.

How is your irrational distrust of the Met relevant?

part of the reason why i would run.  

[Zoutout]

Then, Tommy, you'd be likely to get shot, bcause you are not following the commands of someone with a gun.

Trust or no, your best chance is to not run.  

[illyrianth]

Fourcolour

I'm interested to know how people know 'the most likely course of action for anyone to take'. I'd have thought most people would be paralysed with fear, then follow instructions myself.

Observation of similar situations which I have encountered previously in my working life. I have known most people when challenged to try and run, whether guilty or innocent. ~shrugs~ And every single one of my officers was armed while on duty, so...I had a few reports to go through.  

[Invictus_88]

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8797718&page=18

Update.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Invictus_88

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8797718&page=18

Update.

hmm... mad
this is so damned complicated... sad  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Quote:

Mistakes led to tube shooting
8.25PM, Tue Aug 16 2005


ITV News has obtained secret documents and photographs that detail why police shot Jean Charles De Menezes dead on the tube.

The Brazilian electrician was killed on 22 July, the day after the series of failed bombings on the tube and bus network.

The crucial mistake that ultimately led to his death was made at 9.30am when Jean Charles left his flat in Scotia Road, South London.

Surveillance officers wrongly believed he could have been Hussain Osman, one of the prime suspects, or another terrorist suspect.

By 10am that morning, elite firearms officers were provided with what they describe as "positive identification" and shot De Menezes eight times in the head and upper body.

The documents and photographs confirm that Jean Charles was not carrying any bags, and was wearing a denim jacket, not a bulky winter coat, as had previously been claimed.

He was behaving normally, and did not vault the barriers, even stopping to pick up a free newspaper.

He started running when we saw a tube at the platform. Police had agreed they would shoot a suspect if he ran.

A document describes CCTV footage, which shows Mr de Menezes entered Stockwell station at a "normal walking pace" and descended slowly on an escalator.

The document said: "At some point near the bottom he is seen to run across the concourse and enter the carriage before sitting in an available seat.

"Almost simultaneously armed officers were provided with positive identification."

A member of the surveillance team is quoted in the report. He said: "I heard shouting which included the word `police' and turned to face the male in the denim jacket.

"He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the CO19 officers. I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side.

"I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had been previously sitting. I then heard a gun shot very close to my left ear and was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage."

The report also said a post mortem examination showed Mr de Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, but three other bullets missed, with the casings left lying in the tube carriage.

http://www.itv.com/news/index_1677571.html

the police told lies. told you. mad