what is the great rite?

[CuAnnan]

Neko.
You have been faced with an argument.
Common courtesy and common sense would both indicate you deal with the argument at hand before adding more spam to the boards.

Neko_Bast

reagun ban

It's Gardner's religion.
He created it as a modern pagan path.
There are others.
If you don't want to learn his mysteries, and thusly become a part of his religion, don't. But don't claim that you can be a part of his religion without the mysteries he said were important.

lol.....wow. ^-^ You make it seem as if he is the Wiccan Pope.......

No. A wiccan Jesus would be a more accurate analogy.
Wicca did not exist before Gardner.
Christianity did not exist before Jesus.
This High Priests and High Priestesses are roughly equivalent to the Pope.

Neko_Bast

reagun ban

How about I include the rant of a lineaged 3rd Degree High Priestess who has had two successful and long lasting covens under her charge as to why self-initiation is, as she put it "absolute bollox"
I know for a fact that she is a lineaged Wiccan.
How can you know that about someone who's interactions have all been on line.

goinge by your agument.....how to we know you were really initiated, this is the net after all.............

Whether or not I have been initiated is, indeed, impossible to verify which is, after all, a moot point as the information I posted in my info dump is not dependant on my having been initiated.

It is objective, historically, sociologically and theologically independant of me.  

[Neko_Bast]

reagun ban

Neko.
You have been faced with an argument.
Common courtesy and common sense would both indicate you deal with the argument at hand before adding more spam to the boards.

I'm sorry but I wasn't aware that we were still arguing. I was done.  

[CuAnnan]

Neko_Bast

reagun ban

Neko.
You have been faced with an argument.
Common courtesy and common sense would both indicate you deal with the argument at hand before adding more spam to the boards.

I'm sorry but I wasn't aware that we were still arguing. I was done.

No, you really weren't.
You have neither answered the "What are the sacred names of Aradia and Cernunnos" question, nor the "how did you come by this information".
Nor have you answered my info dump.

If you claim that you are finished arguing and post, on a thread where there are arguments facing you, on an unrelated then you are either exceptionally ignorant or exceptionally childish.  

[CuAnnan]

On the concept of Wicca, in general.
I think a lot of the problem comes from the misconception that
Wicca razz aganism as Catholicism:Christianity.
This ratio is false.
It is inherently wrong.

Wicca razz aganism as "The Catholic Priesthood":Christianity.

The Catholic Priesthood is placed in inverted commas in a mathematical sense, as in I was turning the three words into one mathematical identifer.  

[Light Chakra]

For the sake of things I'll answer your questions in hopes you'll get off of my back though I highly doubt that you will...
What is the elemental weapon of Ether?-
I have once or twice before run across it as being a cauldron, I've also heard the cauldron most commonly being a tool for water as it is associated as is the chalice with the womb of the goddess. Same with a mortar which is why the pistil, athame, and sword are representative of the god for obvious reasons... We bring those together for balance. Spirit or Ether as you refered to it being slightly different in nature, though we won't get into the complicated pile of mess in that corner. Spirit being quintessential (sp?) binding of the other four elements, the axis at which the four points, the above, and the below meet within the circle balancing and blending energies in a perfect manner. The best tool really that I could think of would be one's self on all levels because of the as above and so below concept. We are a miniature version of everything, though this is simply my opinion, rather it is fact or not I cannot say...as I'm sure you'll harp on about later if it pleases you to do so.
What is the significance of the five fold kiss? -
Obviously I'll know what it is and what it's for, but clearly there is a mystery behind it or you wouldn't be asking me.
Each kiss comes with a blessing, though the ritual varies from coven to coven it is deffinitely a standard. Some covens do it for male and female the same, however it is always done between male and female in the same manner that the power of magick is to be passed down between woman and man.
What are the sacred names of Aradia and Cernunnos? -
Again there's going to be a mystery behind this so you can rave on about how I'm incompetent, but I'll answer with the simple truth I don't know.
I've been told that they do not have sacred names, I highly doubt that to be the truth.
What is the tradition of Wicca you initiatied yourself into?-
I am non-denominational as of yet, I will (hopefully) be initiated into the Unicorn tradition, they are a group of semi-eclectic pagans who worship the All. This going into a divine trinity, and yet not... I'm sure you'll have heard of the concept. If you want to look them up here's a link...
http://www.unicorntrad.org/page2.htm
and here's the specific group I'll be joining...
http://www.phoenixmoon.org/
I never said I was against initiation, as you'll know.
I'm just saying that self initiation is just as valid in my opinion, AS it is in MANY others... probably more than those against it, which I think is a good thing we could stand to have some open-mindedness about us now couldn't we...
I can't believe I did this, it goes against everything I said in my previous post... And I'm sure I'll do it again when I read whatever else reagun posts...  

[CuAnnan]

Light Chakra

The best tool really that I could think of would be one's self on all levels because of the as above and so below concept. We are a miniature version of everything, though this is simply my opinion, rather it is fact or not I cannot say...as I'm sure you'll harp on about later if it pleases you to do so.

Firstly, good answer.
Secondly, quit it with the insults.
Thirdly, drop the victim complex.

Light Chakra

What are the sacred names of Aradia and Cernunnos? -
Again there's going to be a mystery behind this so you can rave on about how I'm incompetent, but I'll answer with the simple truth I don't know.
I've been told that they do not have sacred names, I highly doubt that to be the truth.

Ask your mentors for their names.

Light Chakra

What is the tradition of Wicca you initiatied yourself into?-
I am non-denominational as of yet, I will (hopefully) be initiated into the Unicorn tradition, they are a group of semi-eclectic pagans who worship the All. This going into a divine trinity, and yet not... I'm sure you'll have heard of the concept. If you want to look them up here's a link...

That's not Wicca.
Wicca is dithiestic.... wait didn't I handle this in the info dump?  

[Light Chakra]

reagun ban

Light Chakra

The best tool really that I could think of would be one's self on all levels because of the as above and so below concept. We are a miniature version of everything, though this is simply my opinion, rather it is fact or not I cannot say...as I'm sure you'll harp on about later if it pleases you to do so.

Firstly, good answer.
Secondly, quit it with the insults.
Thirdly, drop the victim complex.

Light Chakra

What are the sacred names of Aradia and Cernunnos? -
Again there's going to be a mystery behind this so you can rave on about how I'm incompetent, but I'll answer with the simple truth I don't know.
I've been told that they do not have sacred names, I highly doubt that to be the truth.

Ask your mentors for their names.

Light Chakra

What is the tradition of Wicca you initiatied yourself into?-
I am non-denominational as of yet, I will (hopefully) be initiated into the Unicorn tradition, they are a group of semi-eclectic pagans who worship the All. This going into a divine trinity, and yet not... I'm sure you'll have heard of the concept. If you want to look them up here's a link...

That's not Wicca.
Wicca is dithiestic.... wait didn't I handle this in the info dump?

I have been instructed by these same people that they had traced their beliefs before the beginings of wicca, though how far I don't know, and that because of the high similarity they translated their beliefs over into the mainstream.
They believe in the duality, and that the union of the duality causes a third entity, a neutral standing point. Like black and white making grey.  

[maenad nuri]

Wait, theres something amiss in the Unicorn tradition. I'm reading through their family tree (which really endears me to them, actually. Very responsible of them) but I'm seeing a problem.

I don't really see a connection to Wicca. I see a wonderful family tradition brought by this Lord Merlyn and being taught more openly, where at some point, the term Wicca was applied to them, likely in the era where many thought Wicca and Witchcraft were interchangeable.

It seems like a wonderful group actually. I don't agree with their definition of "pagan" for sure, but I can live with that.

I'm just struck odd by where they came from.  

[CuAnnan]

Nuri

Wait, theres something amiss in the Unicorn tradition. I'm reading through their family tree (which really endears me to them, actually. Very responsible of them) but I'm seeing a problem.

I don't really see a connection to Wicca. I see a wonderful family tradition brought by this Lord Merlyn and being taught more openly, where at some point, the term Wicca was applied to them, likely in the era where many thought Wicca and Witchcraft were interchangeable.

It seems like a wonderful group actually. I don't agree with their definition of "pagan" for sure, but I can live with that.

I'm just struck odd by where they came from.

I'm gonna add my (rusty and rather abrasive) 2c to this.

Lord Merlyn tought Lady Galadriel magic.

Merlyn and Galadriel?!? Are we sure this tradition isn't a parody and that Light Chakra isn't just winding us up, I mean he's actually quite astute.  

[maenad nuri]

reagun ban

I'm gonna add my (rusty and rather abrasive) 2c to this.

Lord Merlyn tought Lady Galadriel magic.

Merlyn and Galadriel?!? Are we sure this tradition isn't a parody and that Light Chakra isn't just winding us up, I mean he's actually quite astute.

There's no accounting for the public names people put out, but from the website, it looks pretty legit.  

[saint dreya]

Light Chakra

I have been instructed by these same people that they had traced their beliefs before the beginings of wicca,

which makes them not wiccan. if they didn't directly stem from one who can trace their lineage back to gardner, they are not wiccan. i can see what Nuri is saying in that wicca might have been applied to them with witchcraft and wicca were equally thrown about and considered one in the same. but now we have divisions in those meanings and are able to say they are different.

Light Chakra

though how far I don't know, and that because of the high similarity they translated their beliefs over into the mainstream.

high similarity doesn't necessarily mean the same. i think they even admit that they were considered wicca only when gardner created the religion of wicca and it was seen to hold some similarities.  

[Light Chakra]

Well besides the fact that I'd be hard pressed to invent an entire system of beliefs, and put up a website that is a fair few years old... I'm not just winding you up, thanks for the compliment. Ps. I'm not much of a computor wiz... The only training I have is word documents and typing.
No they didn't concider themselves wiccan until Gardener came onto the scene, but they follow the same if not similar traditions.
The mysteries, initiations etc.
You know nobody really bothered to answer the Penczak question... well it's a smidge late now, I already bought a book... Which if I hadn't read book reviews first I probably would have just never touched for the title...  

[maenad nuri]

Light Chakra

Well besides the fact that I'd be hard pressed to invent an entire system of beliefs, and put up a website that is a fair few years old... I'm not just winding you up, thanks for the compliment. Ps. I'm not much of a computor wiz... The only training I have is word documents and typing.
No they didn't concider themselves wiccan until Gardener came onto the scene, but they follow the same if not similar traditions.
The mysteries, initiations etc.
You know nobody really bothered to answer the Penczak question... well it's a smidge late now, I already bought a book... Which if I hadn't read book reviews first I probably would have just never touched for the title...

If they didn't consider themselves Wiccan until Gardner came about, I'd consider that a pretty good indicator that they predated Wicca.

I wonder if the Mysteries are the same. That's the key.  

[Light Chakra]

Good point...
I don't think we'll really ever know, I'd have to end up transfering and starting all over again, and I highly doubt that any coven would allow you to do that.
Meh...  

[CuAnnan]

I tend to agree with Nuri, valid non-wiccan tradition.