The Wood Elves

[Drachyench]

He should be using his stuff to max advantage. Try using as much Tree-Siinging Spells to his advantage. All he needs is one to sucessfully work to bring a Powerful Unit out of the game for a turn or two. He also should try and maximize his Skirmishers and regiments to his best. Skirmishers should be used to slow you down, though they shouldn't charge in unless with a Full Unit(3 Ranks, Standard, Outnumber[at the start, probably won't stay that way]) and they hit the flank. Plus, they should know when to run and what to use.

Treemen, for Example, can shred through a lot of Khorne stuff on the Charge, as well as Tree-Kin, if they're backed up by a Standard unit and hit the flank. With the Negating of the Ranks(High unit strength on Flanks), plus the wounds they would do, they should beat a Unit in combat. They then need to proceede to keep up the tactics. Elves are not like Chaos, 'ardboyz, or Ogres. You can't use brute strength with them, you must use them carefully.

Only Problem I see is, How is your Khorne using Shadow Magic? If it's a Banner, it will only affect a certain radius, usually. If a Spellcaster, then you aren't playing a True Khorne Army(Though still using a legal one). What Troops do you and him use? This may make tactics easier for him.  

[Lethkhar]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

He should be using his stuff to max advantage. Try using as much Tree-Siinging Spells to his advantage. All he needs is one to sucessfully work to bring a Powerful Unit out of the game for a turn or two. He also should try and maximize his Skirmishers and regiments to his best. Skirmishers should be used to slow you down, though they shouldn't charge in unless with a Full Unit(3 Ranks, Standard, Outnumber[at the start, probably won't stay that way]) and they hit the flank. Plus, they should know when to run and what to use.

Treemen, for Example, can shred through a lot of Khorne stuff on the Charge, as well as Tree-Kin, if they're backed up by a Standard unit and hit the flank. With the Negating of the Ranks(High unit strength on Flanks), plus the wounds they would do, they should beat a Unit in combat. They then need to proceede to keep up the tactics. Elves are not like Chaos, 'ardboyz, or Ogres. You can't use brute strength with them, you must use them carefully.

Only Problem I see is, How is your Khorne using Shadow Magic? If it's a Banner, it will only affect a certain radius, usually. If a Spellcaster, then you aren't playing a True Khorne Army(Though still using a legal one). What Troops do you and him use? This may make tactics easier for him.

Well, see, that's the problem. He hasn't cast a single successful spell yet on me. I dispel every one. And my men usually go right through his units in one turn and on to the next. He might kill a few if he gets the charge, but the retaliation usually slaughters the whole unit in one turn. T3 is a major disadvantage.
We did try with me not using a sorceror. It didn't make much of a difference. Armor saves and woods (which he insisted on having) still negated most of his shooting.
He doesn't have a treeman yet. Should I suggest one to him?  

[Drachyench]

Either Treemen or a unit of Treekin are a near must for most Wood Elf Players if going against stuff like Chaos. The Higher Strength, Toughness, Armor, and Forest Spirit Save make them able to actually cause wounds against such units, as well as negate flanks if they flank charge. He should have at least one unit of Wardancers or Dryads also, as the special abilities they have are great.

If his shooting isn't doing much against you, he is probably doing something wrong. Does he get at least 30 Shots a turn? Also, does prioritize targets? Finally, does he remember that at Short Range Wood Elf Bows are S4? If not, try and remind him. 30 S4 shots a turn at close range will do some damage. Since he should be able to make at least 2 Such Salvos(The first one when you enter the range, the next one for when you charge as a charge reaction. Or, if YOU do something stupid, move the unit within the shot range yet not within charge distance), the first one should cause 20 Hits, and ten wounds. The next one should cause 7.5 wounds, rounding down, if it was a charge reaction. Thus, after your saves, he should at least take a few of your guys down.

He has to remember to use woods to his advantage. They aren't meant to simply 'block' units, they're meant to get your units IN them. That way, if he manages to cast it again, he can cause those hits against your units. Plus the fact that if he can move his units in the woods treesinged, he should be able to at least minimize charge problems(In woods, I believe they get the behind obstacles Bonus, and thus are only hit on 6's the first round. BIG goodie for them).

His Magic should still hapen for the most part. If a Wood Elf player can't treesing at least once that turn, odds are he is either lacking in the magic department, or is getting very bad casting rolls. Wood Elves NEED treesinging. It is one of the things that allows them to choose when and where they're attacked. Not to say that it is the most important thing, but with it it'll make victory for them a lot easier. What heros does he use?  

[Lethkhar]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Either Treemen or a unit of Treekin are a near must for most Wood Elf Players if going against stuff like Chaos. The Higher Strength, Toughness, Armor, and Forest Spirit Save make them able to actually cause wounds against such units, as well as negate flanks if they flank charge. He should have at least one unit of Wardancers or Dryads also, as the special abilities they have are great.

If his shooting isn't doing much against you, he is probably doing something wrong. Does he get at least 30 Shots a turn? Also, does prioritize targets? Finally, does he remember that at Short Range Wood Elf Bows are S4? If not, try and remind him. 30 S4 shots a turn at close range will do some damage. Since he should be able to make at least 2 Such Salvos(The first one when you enter the range, the next one for when you charge as a charge reaction. Or, if YOU do something stupid, move the unit within the shot range yet not within charge distance), the first one should cause 20 Hits, and ten wounds. The next one should cause 7.5 wounds, rounding down, if it was a charge reaction. Thus, after your saves, he should at least take a few of your guys down.

He has to remember to use woods to his advantage. They aren't meant to simply 'block' units, they're meant to get your units IN them. That way, if he manages to cast it again, he can cause those hits against your units. Plus the fact that if he can move his units in the woods treesinged, he should be able to at least minimize charge problems(In woods, I believe they get the behind obstacles Bonus, and thus are only hit on 6's the first round. BIG goodie for them).

His Magic should still hapen for the most part. If a Wood Elf player can't treesing at least once that turn, odds are he is either lacking in the magic department, or is getting very bad casting rolls. Wood Elves NEED treesinging. It is one of the things that allows them to choose when and where they're attacked. Not to say that it is the most important thing, but with it it'll make victory for them a lot easier. What heros does he use?

A noble on a horse with a special bow (bow of Loren, I think) and hagbane arrows. He also has a spellsinger.
I've never heard of this behind obstacles bonus, I'll ask him for his army book and take a look.
We're playing 1000 point battles for now. He gets somewhere around 30 shots a turn. I usually send in some furies to stop his archers from shooting or I march through woods and get a special bonus (he can't hit as easily), then T4 and armor 4+. It just doesn't work out for him. Dryads charge my men, get slaughtered, and run away. I'll recommend some tree kin though.  

[Drachyench]

Lethkhar

I've never heard of this behind obstacles bonus, I'll ask him for his army book and take a look.

Not a Wood Elf only rule, it's in the Main Fantasy Rulebook somewhere. SOmeone attacking a defender behind obstacles needs 6's to hit until they win the combat. Thus, it'll lower his casualties greatly.

Lethkhar

We're playing 1000 point battles for now. He gets somewhere around 30 shots a turn. I usually send in some furies to stop his archers from shooting or I march through woods and get a special bonus (he can't hit as easily), then T4 and armor 4+. It just doesn't work out for him. Dryads charge my men, get slaughtered, and run away. I'll recommend some tree kin though.

... How the Heck are furies going to stop all his archers? Wood elf players(Or anyone using shooty armies, for that matter) should always have their archers in at least 2 seperate units. Plus the fact that he'll get at least 1 turn of shooting into said furies(2 if he had priority), he should at least weaken them enough that they won't cripple his own army.

T4 is good, but again, after rounding with 30 shots at short range he should get around 17.5 wounds against you. Plus, assuming he gets 2 more shootings at your warriors at long range, that's at least 6 more wounds. Thus, with 17 5+ saves, plus 6 more 4+, he should have at least killed 14 of your Warriors, on average.  

[Lethkhar]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Lethkhar

I've never heard of this behind obstacles bonus, I'll ask him for his army book and take a look.

Not a Wood Elf only rule, it's in the Main Fantasy Rulebook somewhere. SOmeone attacking a defender behind obstacles needs 6's to hit until they win the combat. Thus, it'll lower his casualties greatly.

Lethkhar

We're playing 1000 point battles for now. He gets somewhere around 30 shots a turn. I usually send in some furies to stop his archers from shooting or I march through woods and get a special bonus (he can't hit as easily), then T4 and armor 4+. It just doesn't work out for him. Dryads charge my men, get slaughtered, and run away. I'll recommend some tree kin though.

... How the Heck are furies going to stop all his archers? Wood elf players(Or anyone using shooty armies, for that matter) should always have their archers in at least 2 seperate units. Plus the fact that he'll get at least 1 turn of shooting into said furies(2 if he had priority), he should at least weaken them enough that they won't cripple his own army.

T4 is good, but again, after rounding with 30 shots at short range he should get around 17.5 wounds against you. Plus, assuming he gets 2 more shootings at your warriors at long range, that's at least 6 more wounds. Thus, with 17 5+ saves, plus 6 more 4+, he should have at least killed 14 of your Warriors, on average.

If you engage an enemy in close combat then they can't shoot. Common logic. My furies engage them, stop them from shooting fof a couple turns while my army gets across the field. He has them in two seperate units, I attack him with two seperate units.
He gets to shoot the furies sometimes. It depends on what kind of cover I have. I usually get behind something so he can't see me. I go the long route, but I'm in no rush. No way he's going to charge me. As soon as I've engaged, I march, get within charging distance, then charge. Anything that gets in my way is swept aside. It's the way of Khorne.
Of course, I usually don't waste points nor special choices on furies. Usually woods and obstacles are enough. I don't know how you're doing your logic, but he doesn't get anywhere near 14 wounds. 5+ to hit, that's two thirds off right there, so 10. Then a 5+ to wound, which leaves him with 3 or 4. Then I get my armor save, 4+. So he gets 1 or 2 wounds. Close range it's slightly more. 4+ to hit, 15 will hit. Then 4+, 7 or 8 wounds. Then my armor save makes it around 5 wounds. Not 14.  

[Drachyench]

30 Shots with 3's to hit OUTSIDE of woods Leth, which is 20 hits, 10 Wounds, and at least 6 Drop. From 1 turn of shooting from 30 Archers at short range against regiments. SInce he should get 2, double it. That's 12. Also, the turn of shooting at long range, you still outside woods, causes another 15 hits, 5 Wounds, and at least 2 failed saves.

Your furies will take at least 1 turn of shooting before combat, unless you're playing a field bigger then 48" and they're constantly hiding out of sight behind woods, in which case they wouldn't be able to charge his archers in the first place, considering you need to SEE what you charge also.

Even so, assuming he gets priority, that's 1 Salvo at Long Range, 1 Salvo at short, and then, if you're more then 10 inches away when you do the flight charge, a third turn of stand and shoot shots. Long Range and Stand-and-shoot would need 5's to hit, while short range would need 4's. Long range gets at least 6 hits, which should cause at least 2 casualties there after ward saves. Short range get's at least 1 more, so that's 3 Dead already. Assuming they're only 10 Strong archer units each also, and that only one unit fires on the furies. 2 Units would double the casualties, making it down to only 4 Furies. Now they're no longer scoring, will rarely beat 10-Elf Units in combat, and are mostly only usefull for negating marches.

Wood Elf Players(That I see) Usually have around 2 units of 10 archers, and one unit of 20 Archers raised up on a hill or something. 3 Units, as oppossed to 3 Furies Units. Are you, a Khorne Player, going to use all 3 of your demonic choices on furies in a 1K point game?

He is actually as likely to charge you as you are to charge him, infact more likely. He has a base move of 5, and since you must charge a unit if within range, he can always bait-and-switch. Send a unit just within charge range, have it so your Warriors must charge it(Be the only unit within charge range), choose a flee reaction. Since they will most likely rally, and your Khorne Unit now is ahead of the rest of the line, BOOM! He can pull off a flank charge with one of his bigger/better units.

When you have units in woods, always try and Magic Missile them, if you've knocked off enough of their dispel dice. What seems better to you, 30 Shots going into one unit that'll take at least 2 Turns to do anything good inside the woods while everything else is barreling toward you, or just use 2 Power dice to attempt a magic missile on them at S4(Or higher, depending on spell) with 1d6(Or 2d6 if higher level) that if failed, doesn't make much of a difference? Simply put, woods are meant to slow a part of your army down so he can safely worry about SOMETHING ELSE, then deal with the wooded unit. And you WILL be in the woods for at least 2 turns if it goes off well. As you cannot march in difficult terrain, and the fact that your base movement is halved, odds are you won't be getting your whole regiment out of the woods in one turn.  

[Lethkhar]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

30 Shots with 3's to hit OUTSIDE of woods Leth, which is 20 hits, 10 Wounds, and at least 6 Drop. From 1 turn of shooting from 30 Archers at short range against regiments. SInce he should get 2, double it. That's 12. Also, the turn of shooting at long range, you still outside woods, causes another 15 hits, 5 Wounds, and at least 2 failed saves.

Your furies will take at least 1 turn of shooting before combat, unless you're playing a field bigger then 48" and they're constantly hiding out of sight behind woods, in which case they wouldn't be able to charge his archers in the first place, considering you need to SEE what you charge also.

Even so, assuming he gets priority, that's 1 Salvo at Long Range, 1 Salvo at short, and then, if you're more then 10 inches away when you do the flight charge, a third turn of stand and shoot shots. Long Range and Stand-and-shoot would need 5's to hit, while short range would need 4's. Long range gets at least 6 hits, which should cause at least 2 casualties there after ward saves. Short range get's at least 1 more, so that's 3 Dead already. Assuming they're only 10 Strong archer units each also, and that only one unit fires on the furies. 2 Units would double the casualties, making it down to only 4 Furies. Now they're no longer scoring, will rarely beat 10-Elf Units in combat, and are mostly only usefull for negating marches.

Wood Elf Players(That I see) Usually have around 2 units of 10 archers, and one unit of 20 Archers raised up on a hill or something. 3 Units, as oppossed to 3 Furies Units. Are you, a Khorne Player, going to use all 3 of your demonic choices on furies in a 1K point game?

He is actually as likely to charge you as you are to charge him, infact more likely. He has a base move of 5, and since you must charge a unit if within range, he can always bait-and-switch. Send a unit just within charge range, have it so your Warriors must charge it(Be the only unit within charge range), choose a flee reaction. Since they will most likely rally, and your Khorne Unit now is ahead of the rest of the line, BOOM! He can pull off a flank charge with one of his bigger/better units.

When you have units in woods, always try and Magic Missile them, if you've knocked off enough of their dispel dice. What seems better to you, 30 Shots going into one unit that'll take at least 2 Turns to do anything good inside the woods while everything else is barreling toward you, or just use 2 Power dice to attempt a magic missile on them at S4(Or higher, depending on spell) with 1d6(Or 2d6 if higher level) that if failed, doesn't make much of a difference? Simply put, woods are meant to slow a part of your army down so he can safely worry about SOMETHING ELSE, then deal with the wooded unit. And you WILL be in the woods for at least 2 turns if it goes off well. As you cannot march in difficult terrain, and the fact that your base movement is halved, odds are you won't be getting your whole regiment out of the woods in one turn.

Question: Have you ever played Khorne before?!? You don't seem to get it. If he charges me with a unit he will lose that unit in one, maybe two rounds of combat. Charging Chosen Khorne Warriors is shear stupidity unless it's with something that has a toughness of 5 or more.

They have BS3, 4+ to hit. I'm going through woods, 5+ to hit. S3 vs. T4, 5+. Then a 4+ armor save.

And as I've said before. Magic doesn't seem to do s**t against me. He's had one spell go off before that ended up killing 3 men, whoop-de-doo. The only other spell I didn't dispel was the one he miscast.

But still, thanks for your help. I think you've given a couple good tips that I'll be sure to pass on. Of course, he'll end up having to make up his own style. If I do it for him I'll know his strategy. sweatdrop  

[Reddemon]

Dosn't a wood elf get to hit just as well into or out of woods?  

[Lethkhar]

Reddemon

Dosn't a wood elf get to hit just as well into or out of woods?

No, they just move normally through woods.  

[Drachyench]

Lethkhar

Reddemon

Dosn't a wood elf get to hit just as well into or out of woods?

No, they just move normally through woods.

I also thought they, like all elves, were BS4...  

[Lethkhar]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Lethkhar

Reddemon

Dosn't a wood elf get to hit just as well into or out of woods?

No, they just move normally through woods.

I also thought they, like all elves, were BS4...

I was confused too. When he told me they had BS3, I seriously said,"Wait, you're looking at "BS", right? Not "T"?"
He assured me that they had BS3.  

[Drachyench]

Lethkhar

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Lethkhar

Reddemon

Dosn't a wood elf get to hit just as well into or out of woods?

No, they just move normally through woods.

I also thought they, like all elves, were BS4...

I was confused too. When he told me they had BS3, I seriously said,"Wait, you're looking at "BS", right? Not "T"?"
He assured me that they had BS3.

Something tells me he either isn't reading right, or he has a nerfed up army book. GW has to release every new army book around 10 times before they finally mop-up all the mistakes. Next time you go to a GW, check and make sure. If they are BS3, that means they gave them the same BS as Orcs...  

[Lethkhar]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Lethkhar

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Lethkhar

Reddemon

Dosn't a wood elf get to hit just as well into or out of woods?

No, they just move normally through woods.

I also thought they, like all elves, were BS4...

I was confused too. When he told me they had BS3, I seriously said,"Wait, you're looking at "BS", right? Not "T"?"
He assured me that they had BS3.

Something tells me he either isn't reading right, or he has a nerfed up army book. GW has to release every new army book around 10 times before they finally mop-up all the mistakes. Next time you go to a GW, check and make sure. If they are BS3, that means they gave them the same BS as Orcs...

Ouch. Yeah, I'll check. Definitely. If he's reading it wrong then that just might help him.  

[Scander1005]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Something tells me he either isn't reading right, or he has a nerfed up army book. GW has to release every new army book around 10 times before they finally mop-up all the mistakes. Next time you go to a GW, check and make sure. If they are BS3, that means they gave them the same BS as Orcs...

Good advice ! 3nodding