The High Elves

[Lethkhar]

Andreis

Randomly, I just decided not too long ago to repaint of my CRAPPILY painted high elves. After painting Eldar, I now have modeling experience and can make my high elves look good. Now I have been looking at my codex again and thinking of actually getting into the game this time. Unlike prior when I just got some boxed sets and that was that.
I already have a Hero Designed and a 1,000 point army also designed.
I really do not know how good my army would be anyhow. I decided on 2 Units of spearmen.. 16 would be the size for each I think.
One unit of 20 Swordmasters... I am guessing this will end out a flop. I just decided that because I love Swordmaster of Hoeth! ^_^
2 Great Eagles and a Commander.
All for 987 points.

It feels so small.

I dunno, I would suggest some long range....  

[Andreis]

You are probably right. Elves ARE frail after all. xd

So hmm...
Archers.
I DO already have a unit of Archers and a Unit of Spearmen...
I have been told that Repeater bolt throwers good, so I could toss like one or two of THEM in there.

Should I toss the swordmasters for the moment?
They are just so cool....

What benefits does a greatweapon give?
Well, either way.
If the Greatsword confers a benefit of plus any attacks, than a commander or Prince with the Swordmaster honour and a great weapon strikes in initiative order with a base of 3 Strength 6 attacks assuming that the sword gives +1. If not then he gets 2.  

[Lethkhar]

Andreis

You are probably right. Elves ARE frail after all. xd

So hmm...
Archers.
I DO already have a unit of Archers and a Unit of Spearmen...
I have been told that Repeater bolt throwers good, so I could toss like one or two of THEM in there.

Should I toss the swordmasters for the moment?
They are just so cool....

What benefits does a greatweapon give?
Well, either way.
If the Greatsword confers a benefit of plus any attacks, than a commander or Prince with the Swordmaster honour and a great weapon strikes in initiative order with a base of 3 Strength 6 attacks assuming that the sword gives +1. If not then he gets 2.

The great sword, I would assume, gives them +2 strength and makes them automatically strike last. Not so good for an elf, if you ask me. They have a high initiative for a reason.  

[Daicon]

You're both wrong...

Great weapons confer +2 strength. Combine this with the high initiative of the Swordmasters (Which they still benefit from) and you have a unit of WS 6 S 5 warriors who still strike before most non-charging opponents. Swordmasters are always worth investing points in, as long as you know what you're going to do with them.  

[Mystic_breeze]

Daicon

You're both wrong...

Great weapons confer +2 strength. Combine this with the high initiative of the Swordmasters (Which they still benefit from) and you have a unit of WS 6 S 5 warriors who still strike before most non-charging opponents. Swordmasters are always worth investing points in, as long as you know what you're going to do with them.

Indeed! My favourite unit. I usually take Eltharion as my general so i can have at least 2 units. I just love them, and they are awsome if deployed and played correctly.

But as said above a Great Wapon gives +2 strength.  

[Andreis]

Well of course I am wrong!

But in your correction... I am not wrong.

I said the great sword confers a +2 strength and I was ABOUT to explain that the Swordmaster honour allows striking in Initiative order.

However I thought that it was only the high elves swordmaster honour that allowed for the +2 strenght in CC...
Is that incorrect?

-gasp-

Tyrion gets a 1+ armor save?!?  

[Reddemon]

Andreis

Well of course I am wrong!

But in your correction... I am not wrong.

I said the great sword confers a +2 strength and I was ABOUT to explain that the Swordmaster honour allows striking in Initiative order.

However I thought that it was only the high elves swordmaster honour that allowed for the +2 strenght in CC...
Is that incorrect?

-gasp-

Tyrion gets a 1+ armor save?!?

I dont know his armour, but I could make a Bret lord that would drop him a few notches.  

[Lethkhar]

Daicon

You're both wrong...

Great weapons confer +2 strength. Combine this with the high initiative of the Swordmasters (Which they still benefit from) and you have a unit of WS 6 S 5 warriors who still strike before most non-charging opponents. Swordmasters are always worth investing points in, as long as you know what you're going to do with them.

As far as I know, great weapons make you strike last no matter what your initiative is...Did they change that in the new rules? *Hasn't completely read the new rules*

Or is that some sort of special High Elf thing?  

[Andreis]

Lethkhar

Daicon

You're both wrong...

Great weapons confer +2 strength. Combine this with the high initiative of the Swordmasters (Which they still benefit from) and you have a unit of WS 6 S 5 warriors who still strike before most non-charging opponents. Swordmasters are always worth investing points in, as long as you know what you're going to do with them.

As far as I know, great weapons make you strike last no matter what your initiative is...Did they change that in the new rules? *Hasn't completely read the new rules*

Or is that some sort of special High Elf thing?

High elf Swordmaster special rule.

Reddemon

I dont know his armour, but I could make a Bret lord that would drop him a few notches.

Tyrion gets a 1+ armour save and a 4+ wardsave. Then when he is reduced to one wound he gets a 2+ wardsave. Then when he dies. He revives for one time with 1 wound remaining.

Now forgive me for being brash... but your Nonchalant approach to this makes me gawk.
Granted, I play 40k and the best you get is 2+.
I am not arguing well... tyrion is better than such and such! No no no! I am just saying 1+??? That means unless the weapon or hit ignores armour saves... his armour will ALWAYS save the hit! That is just... WOW. I am sure there are plenty of things that can take him down... but DAMN!


EDIT- Actually now that I think about it I am doubting you can CREATE a character that would kill him... :/ I suppose it is possible.  

[Lethkhar]

Andreis

Lethkhar

Daicon

You're both wrong...

Great weapons confer +2 strength. Combine this with the high initiative of the Swordmasters (Which they still benefit from) and you have a unit of WS 6 S 5 warriors who still strike before most non-charging opponents. Swordmasters are always worth investing points in, as long as you know what you're going to do with them.

As far as I know, great weapons make you strike last no matter what your initiative is...Did they change that in the new rules? *Hasn't completely read the new rules*

Or is that some sort of special High Elf thing?

High elf Swordmaster special rule.

Reddemon

I dont know his armour, but I could make a Bret lord that would drop him a few notches.

Tyrion gets a 1+ armour save and a 4+ wardsave. Then when he is reduced to one wound he gets a 2+ wardsave. Then when he dies. He revives for one time with 1 wound remaining.

Now forgive me for being brash... but your Nonchalant approach to this makes me gawk.
Granted, I play 40k and the best you get is 2+.
I am not arguing well... tyrion is better than such and such! No no no! I am just saying 1+??? That means unless the weapon or hit ignores armour saves... his armour will ALWAYS save the hit! That is just... WOW. I am sure there are plenty of things that can take him down... but DAMN!


EDIT- Actually now that I think about it I am doubting you can CREATE a character that would kill him... :/ I suppose it is possible.

1+, for all intents and purposes, is the same as 2+. It's just for things that reduce armor, you count it as a 1+.

So let's say something wounds him with strength 4. Against a 2+ armor save, this would reduce it to a 3+ armor save. However, with 1+, it stays as a 2+ armor save.

Savvy?  

[Drachyench]

Andreis

Lethkhar

Daicon

You're both wrong...

Great weapons confer +2 strength. Combine this with the high initiative of the Swordmasters (Which they still benefit from) and you have a unit of WS 6 S 5 warriors who still strike before most non-charging opponents. Swordmasters are always worth investing points in, as long as you know what you're going to do with them.

As far as I know, great weapons make you strike last no matter what your initiative is...Did they change that in the new rules? *Hasn't completely read the new rules*

Or is that some sort of special High Elf thing?

High elf Swordmaster special rule.

Reddemon

I dont know his armour, but I could make a Bret lord that would drop him a few notches.

Tyrion gets a 1+ armour save and a 4+ wardsave. Then when he is reduced to one wound he gets a 2+ wardsave. Then when he dies. He revives for one time with 1 wound remaining.

Now forgive me for being brash... but your Nonchalant approach to this makes me gawk.
Granted, I play 40k and the best you get is 2+.
I am not arguing well... tyrion is better than such and such! No no no! I am just saying 1+??? That means unless the weapon or hit ignores armour saves... his armour will ALWAYS save the hit! That is just... WOW. I am sure there are plenty of things that can take him down... but DAMN!


EDIT- Actually now that I think about it I am doubting you can CREATE a character that would kill him... :/ I suppose it is possible.

Tyrion is actually easy to kill, as long as you fight him right. If he uses Tyrion without a unit, simple maxed Rank-and-File unit can break him (Or at least hold him up) for a long time. If he charges with Calvary, it makes the Elf player an Idiot, as it gives the opponnents free combat res in some instances.

For Example, he, with a unit of Silver Helms (So 3 Silver helms and him in the front) charge a unit of Pikemen. Pikemen go first at +1 Strength, with all 4 Ranks. Considering that the pikemen will probably be around a 7-to-8 wide rank set, that's 28-32 attacks going against the Silver Helms at S4, before Tyrion attacks. 14/16 hits, assuming no Champion, and 9/11 Wounds. With a now 3+ Save for the basic Helms, they lose 3 to 4 guys. Now the Pikemen have a Combat Res of 8 to 9 to start with, against the Silver Helm and Tyrions unit with combat res of 2 to start (rank, standard). At least 6 wounds would have to be caused by Tyrion and one champion just to tie the pikemen.

Tyrion is Uber, yes. But he can be beat by a simple rank and file unit, as the above points out. Sure, charging a Pikemen unit with calvary is always stupid, but it proves my point. My advice would be to use him like other Powerhouse characters. Wait for a battle where his 3-5 wounds will easily turn the fight to your favor, find it, and go for it.

Tyrion is only as good as the player using him. If given a dumbarse tactic or use, he'll do jack and be wasted points.

Luckily, though, Tyrion is now safe to Cannon fire, so he no longer has to worry about them. Just hope he isn't hit by lore of metal spells, though. XP  

[Lethkhar]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Andreis

Lethkhar

Daicon

You're both wrong...

Great weapons confer +2 strength. Combine this with the high initiative of the Swordmasters (Which they still benefit from) and you have a unit of WS 6 S 5 warriors who still strike before most non-charging opponents. Swordmasters are always worth investing points in, as long as you know what you're going to do with them.

As far as I know, great weapons make you strike last no matter what your initiative is...Did they change that in the new rules? *Hasn't completely read the new rules*

Or is that some sort of special High Elf thing?

High elf Swordmaster special rule.

Reddemon

I dont know his armour, but I could make a Bret lord that would drop him a few notches.

Tyrion gets a 1+ armour save and a 4+ wardsave. Then when he is reduced to one wound he gets a 2+ wardsave. Then when he dies. He revives for one time with 1 wound remaining.

Now forgive me for being brash... but your Nonchalant approach to this makes me gawk.
Granted, I play 40k and the best you get is 2+.
I am not arguing well... tyrion is better than such and such! No no no! I am just saying 1+??? That means unless the weapon or hit ignores armour saves... his armour will ALWAYS save the hit! That is just... WOW. I am sure there are plenty of things that can take him down... but DAMN!


EDIT- Actually now that I think about it I am doubting you can CREATE a character that would kill him... :/ I suppose it is possible.

Tyrion is actually easy to kill, as long as you fight him right. If he uses Tyrion without a unit, simple maxed Rank-and-File unit can break him (Or at least hold him up) for a long time. If he charges with Calvary, it makes the Elf player an Idiot, as it gives the opponnents free combat res in some instances.

For Example, he, with a unit of Silver Helms (So 3 Silver helms and him in the front) charge a unit of Pikemen. Pikemen go first at +1 Strength, with all 4 Ranks. Considering that the pikemen will probably be around a 7-to-8 wide rank set, that's 28-32 attacks going against the Silver Helms at S4, before Tyrion attacks. 14/16 hits, assuming no Champion, and 9/11 Wounds. With a now 3+ Save for the basic Helms, they lose 3 to 4 guys. Now the Pikemen have a Combat Res of 8 to 9 to start with, against the Silver Helm and Tyrions unit with combat res of 2 to start (rank, standard). At least 6 wounds would have to be caused by Tyrion and one champion just to tie the pikemen.

Tyrion is Uber, yes. But he can be beat by a simple rank and file unit, as the above points out. Sure, charging a Pikemen unit with calvary is always stupid, but it proves my point. My advice would be to use him like other Powerhouse characters. Wait for a battle where his 3-5 wounds will easily turn the fight to your favor, find it, and go for it.

Tyrion is only as good as the player using him. If given a dumbarse tactic or use, he'll do jack and be wasted points.

Luckily, though, Tyrion is now safe to Cannon fire, so he no longer has to worry about them. Just hope he isn't hit by lore of metal spells, though. XP

One question: What kind of moron who calls themself a general would charge a large unit of pikemen with 3 silver helms and Tyrion? That's worse than stupid.  

[Andreis]

LOL!!

I did say I was a 40k player ya know. So I have no idea about fantasy. 1+ armour save just sounds really incredible, but I didn't realize strength modified the save downward, which does make sense for fantasy armour.  

[Drachyench]

Lethkhar

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Andreis

Lethkhar

Daicon

You're both wrong...

Great weapons confer +2 strength. Combine this with the high initiative of the Swordmasters (Which they still benefit from) and you have a unit of WS 6 S 5 warriors who still strike before most non-charging opponents. Swordmasters are always worth investing points in, as long as you know what you're going to do with them.

As far as I know, great weapons make you strike last no matter what your initiative is...Did they change that in the new rules? *Hasn't completely read the new rules*

Or is that some sort of special High Elf thing?

High elf Swordmaster special rule.

Reddemon

I dont know his armour, but I could make a Bret lord that would drop him a few notches.

Tyrion gets a 1+ armour save and a 4+ wardsave. Then when he is reduced to one wound he gets a 2+ wardsave. Then when he dies. He revives for one time with 1 wound remaining.

Now forgive me for being brash... but your Nonchalant approach to this makes me gawk.
Granted, I play 40k and the best you get is 2+.
I am not arguing well... tyrion is better than such and such! No no no! I am just saying 1+??? That means unless the weapon or hit ignores armour saves... his armour will ALWAYS save the hit! That is just... WOW. I am sure there are plenty of things that can take him down... but DAMN!


EDIT- Actually now that I think about it I am doubting you can CREATE a character that would kill him... :/ I suppose it is possible.

Tyrion is actually easy to kill, as long as you fight him right. If he uses Tyrion without a unit, simple maxed Rank-and-File unit can break him (Or at least hold him up) for a long time. If he charges with Calvary, it makes the Elf player an Idiot, as it gives the opponnents free combat res in some instances.

For Example, he, with a unit of Silver Helms (So 3 Silver helms and him in the front) charge a unit of Pikemen. Pikemen go first at +1 Strength, with all 4 Ranks. Considering that the pikemen will probably be around a 7-to-8 wide rank set, that's 28-32 attacks going against the Silver Helms at S4, before Tyrion attacks. 14/16 hits, assuming no Champion, and 9/11 Wounds. With a now 3+ Save for the basic Helms, they lose 3 to 4 guys. Now the Pikemen have a Combat Res of 8 to 9 to start with, against the Silver Helm and Tyrions unit with combat res of 2 to start (rank, standard). At least 6 wounds would have to be caused by Tyrion and one champion just to tie the pikemen.

Tyrion is Uber, yes. But he can be beat by a simple rank and file unit, as the above points out. Sure, charging a Pikemen unit with calvary is always stupid, but it proves my point. My advice would be to use him like other Powerhouse characters. Wait for a battle where his 3-5 wounds will easily turn the fight to your favor, find it, and go for it.

Tyrion is only as good as the player using him. If given a dumbarse tactic or use, he'll do jack and be wasted points.

Luckily, though, Tyrion is now safe to Cannon fire, so he no longer has to worry about them. Just hope he isn't hit by lore of metal spells, though. XP

One question: What kind of moron who calls themself a general would charge a large unit of pikemen with 3 silver helms and Tyrion? That's worse than stupid.

Hm, I Implied they have a rank bonus, as in they have 5 Silver Helms behind Tyrion....

Also, people at my GW.

Yes, Strength does. That's why shooting S4 or higher is a b*tch. It turns your nice juice 2+ or 3+ saves into something weaker.  

[Lethkhar]

I saw a High Elves vs. Ogre Kingdoms battle the other day.

When I came in, the High Elves looked pretty much screwed. But apparently the guy had invested a ton of points in a unit of Silver Helms which got +D6 to combat resolution due to a banner. The High Elves ended up winning by a combination of magic and the unit of Silver Helms. The high elf archers tied up a unit of Yeti in combat for 4 turns! xd

Made me want to start collecting High Elves...