Suicide

[Xandris]

Priestley

The issue isn't the aforethought but is that the victim is a human being other than the murderer.

Then why put in the statuatory definitions? Killing ANOTHER human being OR it being predemitated or deliberated upon.  

[Lazarus The Resurected]

My religion condemns suicide becuase we are taught to be more like the animals we realy are. unless of course it comes as an indulgeance, For instance if terminally ill, in great pain and with no cure in sight it would be premissable. most of the time thoguh nothing is too bad to live through. it pains me to think of the three frineds that never saw their 20th birthdays because the were too weak to just push through emotional stress.  

[Xandris]

O Lord, I know the way of man is not in himself; it is not in man who walks to direct his own steps. (Jeremiah 10:23)
Thus says the Lord, Your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: "I am the Lord your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you by the way you should go. (Isaiah 48:17)
Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths. (Proverbs 3:5)
Delight yourself also in the Lord, and He shall give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord, trust also in Him, and He shall bring it to pass ... Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him. (Psalm 37:4,7)


All these verses tell us that God has a hand in our lives, that he's pointing us the way we should go. There are many more in this vein.




My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. (James 1:2-3)
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. (Jeremiah 29:11)
Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content. (Philippians 4:11)
We think you ought to know, dear brothers and sisters, about the trouble we went through in the province of Asia. We were crushed and overwhelmed beyond our ability to endure, and we thought we would never live through it. In fact, we expected to die. But as a result, we stopped relying on ourselves and learned to rely only on God, who raises the dead. And he did rescue us from mortal danger, and he will rescue us again. We have placed our confidence in him, and he will continue to rescue us. (2 Corinthians 1:8-10)


These dark times will pass, and I do personally believe it to be a great weakness to commit suicide, with very VERY few exceptions. God WILL rescue you, in time, if you ask, and give you a future and a hope. Don't cut yourself short from blessings. God wants you to live until HE has deemed it time for you to go. Free will allows us to disregard God's wants, but it still seems a tad disrespectful.  

[zz1000zz]

Xandris

Priestley

The issue isn't the aforethought but is that the victim is a human being other than the murderer.

Then why put in the statuatory definitions? Killing ANOTHER human being OR it being predemitated or deliberated upon.

The only "or" in the definition you offered is not where you seem to think it is.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

zz1000zz

Fushigi na Butterfly, it should be pretty clear now that what you are saying is just a personal belief, and there is no way to demonstrate it. Not liking suicide is understandable. Discouraging suicide is too. However, it is wrong to say, "God opposes suicide" unless you can show it.

It is much better to tell suicidal individuals about the good things they have than to tell them to live because other people do not want them to die. They need a reason to live, not a reason to not die.

I totally understand that. I was just trying to explain why I thought suicide might be wrong. In any event, we can all pretty much agree that it is an unfortunate thing when a life is lost, whether the person made the decision sanely and for reasons that really had little to do with themselves or not.

I would never tell someone "God doesn't want this for you," as a means of talking someone down out of suicide, because you're right, they don't need a reason to not die. They need help and guidance and resources that help them see the purpose and meaning (and I mean on an individual level here) of living.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Lazarus The Resurected

My religion condemns suicide becuase we are taught to be more like the animals we realy are. unless of course it comes as an indulgeance, For instance if terminally ill, in great pain and with no cure in sight it would be premissable. most of the time thoguh nothing is too bad to live through. it pains me to think of the three frineds that never saw their 20th birthdays because the were too weak to just push through emotional stress.

I'm sensing some bitterness here, which is understandable, since these three people were your friends. What you need to understand is that this "weakness" to "push through emotional stress" is by no means under their control- it comes from a severe chemical imbalance and delusional, illogical thinking. If people could help the thoughts that lead to suicide, I'm sure they would. You shouldn't hold suicide against them- they're suffering just as much as the people they leave behind.  

[Priestley]

Xandris

Priestley

The issue isn't the aforethought but is that the victim is a human being other than the murderer.

Then why put in the statuatory definitions? Killing ANOTHER human being OR it being predemitated or deliberated upon.

The statutory definitions are there to further qualify what is murder and what is otherwise not murder. The former is with intent and/or premeditation, the latter is usually with intent only to cause harm but results in death, or the misuse of excessive force. I'm unsure as to the the differences between degrees of murder in the States and whether they are directly parallel to the charges of murder and manslaughter in other countries.

As to the "or" to which you are referring, it is not there.  

[zz1000zz]

Fushigi na Butterfly

zz1000zz

Fushigi na Butterfly, it should be pretty clear now that what you are saying is just a personal belief, and there is no way to demonstrate it. Not liking suicide is understandable. Discouraging suicide is too. However, it is wrong to say, "God opposes suicide" unless you can show it.

It is much better to tell suicidal individuals about the good things they have than to tell them to live because other people do not want them to die. They need a reason to live, not a reason to not die.

I totally understand that. I was just trying to explain why I thought suicide might be wrong. In any event, we can all pretty much agree that it is an unfortunate thing when a life is lost, whether the person made the decision sanely and for reasons that really had little to do with themselves or not.

I would never tell someone "God doesn't want this for you," as a means of talking someone down out of suicide, because you're right, they don't need a reason to not die. They need help and guidance and resources that help them see the purpose and meaning (and I mean on an individual level here) of living.

I have considered suicide numerous times, academically. It is an important topic for anyone interested in philosophy, and it is also one of the least discussed topics.

It is amazing how the vile things people say about those who die through suicide. How can people expect to help someone with a problem when they are so hostile to it?  

[Lazarus The Resurected]

zz1000zz

Fushigi na Butterfly

zz1000zz

Fushigi na Butterfly, it should be pretty clear now that what you are saying is just a personal belief, and there is no way to demonstrate it. Not liking suicide is understandable. Discouraging suicide is too. However, it is wrong to say, "God opposes suicide" unless you can show it.

It is much better to tell suicidal individuals about the good things they have than to tell them to live because other people do not want them to die. They need a reason to live, not a reason to not die.

I totally understand that. I was just trying to explain why I thought suicide might be wrong. In any event, we can all pretty much agree that it is an unfortunate thing when a life is lost, whether the person made the decision sanely and for reasons that really had little to do with themselves or not.

I would never tell someone "God doesn't want this for you," as a means of talking someone down out of suicide, because you're right, they don't need a reason to not die. They need help and guidance and resources that help them see the purpose and meaning (and I mean on an individual level here) of living.

I have considered suicide numerous times, academically. It is an important topic for anyone interested in philosophy, and it is also one of the least discussed topics.

It is amazing how the vile things people say about those who die through suicide. How can people expect to help someone with a problem when they are so hostile to it?

the level of hostility in my case is directly proportional to the number of friends that i've buried. 3. having to watch the suffering of the friends and family is enough to move even my stone heart. i have had the blade right at my arm a number of times myself. the same thought kept bringing me back. "how badly would i break my father's heart?"
the idea of suicide to me has always been the resort of cowards. people can't tough out petty crap in life and off themselves. and if you realy step back all of it becomes petty.  

[zz1000zz]

Lazarus The Resurected

the level of hostility in my case is directly proportional to the number of friends that i've buried. 3. having to watch the suffering of the friends and family is enough to move even my stone heart. i have had the blade right at my arm a number of times myself. the same thought kept bringing me back. "how badly would i break my father's heart?"

Living only because of others' desires is pathetic. I would suggest you find a better reason to live.

Lazarus The Resurected

the idea of suicide to me has always been the resort of cowards. people can't tough out petty crap in life and off themselves. and if you realy step back all of it becomes petty.

It is odd you would consider suicide cowardly. The reasoning you offered for why you are alive is far more cowardly than suicide.  

[Lazarus The Resurected]

zz1000zz

Lazarus The Resurected

the level of hostility in my case is directly proportional to the number of friends that i've buried. 3. having to watch the suffering of the friends and family is enough to move even my stone heart. i have had the blade right at my arm a number of times myself. the same thought kept bringing me back. "how badly would i break my father's heart?"

Living only because of others' desires is pathetic. I would suggest you find a better reason to live.

Lazarus The Resurected

the idea of suicide to me has always been the resort of cowards. people can't tough out petty crap in life and off themselves. and if you realy step back all of it becomes petty.

It is odd you would consider suicide cowardly. The reasoning you offered for why you are alive is far more cowardly than suicide.

suicide is by definition cowardly. it is running away from problems that would be solved if only the individual would have the fortitude to turn and face them. my catalyst was not wanting to cause harm to the only person on this planet besides myself that i care about. i see no cowardice in enduring so as to not harm others  

[zz1000zz]

Now this is hardly fair. You say suicide is cowardly. I say it is not. You then make up things about the definition of suicide to say you are right. It is hard for a friendly give and take to survive something like that.

You are obviously looking at suicide from a narrow, biased viewpoint. Nothing you have said deals with suicide as a whole; it deals only with the experiences of suicide you know. This is understandable, but incorrect. I would point to my earlier post discussing perfectly reasonable rationales used to justify suicide.

As for the issue of cowardnice, it is cowardly to live only for someone else's desires. Doing so gives up any sense of self you could have, rendering you nothing more than a subservient extension of those you cling to.  

[Lazarus The Resurected]

zz1000zz

As for the issue of cowardnice, it is cowardly to live only for someone else's desires. Doing so gives up any sense of self you could have, rendering you nothing more than a subservient extension of those you cling to.

the irony of that statement in a christian guild does not escape me, however i may need to broaden my view on this somewhat.
never thel ess i still cling to one thing: suicide is generaly used as a final means of escape from a problem. i'm not sure how that could be unclear.  

[zz1000zz]

Lazarus The Resurected

zz1000zz

As for the issue of cowardnice, it is cowardly to live only for someone else's desires. Doing so gives up any sense of self you could have, rendering you nothing more than a subservient extension of those you cling to.

the irony of that statement in a christian guild does not escape me,

There is no irony, not even via the bastardized definition of irony people love to use. Nobody should live only for God. God will accept them whether they are alive or dead, so he would be a terrible excuse for not dying.

Then again, it is hardly surprising you would immediately jump to a negative interpretation of what I said, considering the absurdity of your signature.  

[Lazarus The Resurected]

zz1000zz

Lazarus The Resurected

zz1000zz

As for the issue of cowardnice, it is cowardly to live only for someone else's desires. Doing so gives up any sense of self you could have, rendering you nothing more than a subservient extension of those you cling to.

the irony of that statement in a christian guild does not escape me,

There is no irony, not even via the bastardized definition of irony people love to use. Nobody should live only for God. God will accept them whether they are alive or dead, so he would be a terrible excuse for not dying.

Then again, it is hardly surprising you would immediately jump to a negative interpretation of what I said, considering the absurdity of your signature.

Christian v. Satanist. i believe round one goes to you. but just for the record what is so absurd abotu my signature it is a brief summation, yes but it's logic is at least sound.