Metagenetics

[TeaDidikai]

Tsuzuki

TeaDidikai

Tsuzuki

I would call both of these hard metagenetics. And what happens when it's proven that no such lineage exists, such as the Japanese emperor being descended from Koreans, not kami? Would that invalidate the entire Shinto religion? I'm more inclined to go with AvalonAuggie's definition.

You ignore the fact that just because at one point there were Koreans within the Emperors line, it does not prove there were never gods in his line.

What does divine DNA look like? Surely, there must be some genetic markers signifying descent from the kami.

There might indeed be.

When they finish mapping the DNA, we can sure ask them.

However, even if there is not- that does not devalue the sense of belonging within the cultural context of a family line. Divine or otherwise.  

[Tsuzuki]

TeaDidikai

Tsuzuki

TeaDidikai

Tsuzuki

I would call both of these hard metagenetics. And what happens when it's proven that no such lineage exists, such as the Japanese emperor being descended from Koreans, not kami? Would that invalidate the entire Shinto religion? I'm more inclined to go with AvalonAuggie's definition.

You ignore the fact that just because at one point there were Koreans within the Emperors line, it does not prove there were never gods in his line.

What does divine DNA look like? Surely, there must be some genetic markers signifying descent from the kami.

There might indeed be.

When they finish mapping the DNA, we can sure ask them.

However, even if there is not- that does not devalue the sense of belonging within the cultural context of a family line. Divine or otherwise.

You'll have no argument from me there, but trying to justify that sense of belonging through metagenetics is pseudo-science at best, and at worst a breeding ground for racism.  

[TeaDidikai]

Tsuzuki

You'll have no argument from me there, but trying to justify that sense of belonging through metagenetics is pseudo-science at best, and at worst a breeding ground for racism.

I have yet to see it offered up as hard genetics. It's not about that, but about the concept of a cultural lineage.  

[Tsuzuki]

TeaDidikai

Tsuzuki

You'll have no argument from me there, but trying to justify that sense of belonging through metagenetics is pseudo-science at best, and at worst a breeding ground for racism.

I have yet to see it offered up as hard genetics. It's not about that, but about the concept of a cultural lineage.

Barring adoption, cultural lineage and hard genetics go hand in hand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test

Personally, I'm partial to AvalonAuggie's definition of soft metagenetics, but hard metagenetics loses against hard science. Keep in mind that I'm not against closed societies, but you don't need theories like metagenetics to justify them.  

[Deoridhe]

I think that some people may be drawn back to their cultural family history, but others may not, and that the gods choose who they call and not me. That being said, I don't consider people who are drawn to the trappings of a culture to necessarily be drawn to the gods, particularly in the case of fairly obscure sects of gods.

However, I know I have no First Nation blood in recorded history - my bloodline is all European in origin - but when I went to Arizona I was struck with a strong welcome visitor feeling and I found the landspirits to be fundamentally different and yet somehow or for some reason welcoming. I have a feeling that gods and spirits are drawn to characteristics in a person as much as they're drawn to their cultural/genetic history.

I also think that adoption is found in the majority of cultures, even one with insular bents like Judaism, for a reason.

TeaDidikai

I find it interesting that even within the pagan scene, many fluffies would claim to be Rroma and therefore display a sense of entitlement to traditions there of- where as there are far fewer people who would try and knock down the doors of a Native American Lodge or be the first ones with a chicken at the crossroads to honor Papa Legba.

As a side note to this - Voudoun is not really metagenetic. I know of some cases of anthropologists studying a Voudouienne who is then initiated into the society.

TeaDidikai

How do people feel about the balance of Metagenetic Mysteries and the respect for the culture that holds them when faced with a personal desire to learn?

Respect first, always, when possible. I know my standards and respectful behavior will be foreign in a lot of cultures and too a lot of people, though, so I try to keep mindful of that as well.

AvalonAuggie

Does anyone know of good links for info on African religions? Or Afro-American geneaology?

Not good links, but a suggestion - seek out anthropology. There's a lot of work on different African tribes (the Maori are one of my favorite!) which touches on their religious practices as well, and much of it includes how they're trying to keep some of the important practices while also being "modern."

Jishin

TeaDidikai

Odin never said people who aren't of the Northlands cannot worship him.

You know, Tea, there are a lot of folks out there who would disagree with you on that. I keep running into them. (Hence the rant on the prior page.)

Where on earth do they get that idea? It's not anywhere in the primary texts that I can find, and in fact the Norse deities mingled freely with the Jotuns and even the humans, if I recall correctly. I'm continually baffled by that.

They're racist - that's where they get it from. Many of them justify it by the Lay of Rig, but there were other humans not of Rigs descent that were still honored by the gods, so that doesn't hold water. I'm an Asatruar who doesn't much care, though; if the gods call you, the gods call you.

Tsuzuki

You'll have no argument from me there, but trying to justify that sense of belonging through metagenetics is pseudo-science at best, and at worst a breeding ground for racism.

Actually, I've seen an article discussing the tracking of certain genetic markers through mitochondrial DNA (the mother's line) and the Y chromosome (male to male line) and identify people who have a genetic commonality at some point - for instance a whole slew of people who were found to be descendants of a specific Jew some thousand years ago.

It's interesting stuff, really.  

[saint dreya]

Deoridhe

However, I know I have no First Nation blood in recorded history - my bloodline is all European in origin - but when I went to Arizona I was struck with a strong welcome visitor feeling and I found the landspirits to be fundamentally different and yet somehow or for some reason welcoming.

it's all the german tourists and damn snowbirds. the spirits are used to people coming and going, xp .  

[Tsuzuki]

phoenix_shadowwolf

Deoridhe

However, I know I have no First Nation blood in recorded history - my bloodline is all European in origin - but when I went to Arizona I was struck with a strong welcome visitor feeling and I found the landspirits to be fundamentally different and yet somehow or for some reason welcoming.

it's all the german tourists and damn snowbirds. the spirits are used to people coming and going, xp .

What, so the spirits are welcoming tourists now?  

[TeaDidikai]

Tsuzuki

phoenix_shadowwolf

Deoridhe

However, I know I have no First Nation blood in recorded history - my bloodline is all European in origin - but when I went to Arizona I was struck with a strong welcome visitor feeling and I found the landspirits to be fundamentally different and yet somehow or for some reason welcoming.

it's all the german tourists and damn snowbirds. the spirits are used to people coming and going, xp .

What, so the spirits are welcoming tourists now?

Depends on the spirit I would bet. Pele still gets pissed off when people take pebbles from her.  

[saint dreya]

TeaDidikai

Tsuzuki

phoenix_shadowwolf

Deoridhe

However, I know I have no First Nation blood in recorded history - my bloodline is all European in origin - but when I went to Arizona I was struck with a strong welcome visitor feeling and I found the landspirits to be fundamentally different and yet somehow or for some reason welcoming.

it's all the german tourists and damn snowbirds. the spirits are used to people coming and going, xp .

What, so the spirits are welcoming tourists now?

Depends on the spirit I would bet. Pele still gets pissed off when people take pebbles from her.

yeah, the area too. i'm sure anyone who sincerely pissed off the spirits here would find at least a handful of scorpions and tarantulas in their house, and all their pets eaten by coyotes... 4laugh welcome to arizona!  

[Deoridhe]

phoenix_shadowwolf

yeah, the area too. i'm sure anyone who sincerely pissed off the spirits here would find at least a handful of scorpions and tarantulas in their house, and all their pets eaten by coyotes... 4laugh welcome to arizona!

Wow, I had NOTHING like that, though I did have an (un?)holy attraction to the Prickly Pear Cactus. Couldn't stop looking at them, studying them, photographing them... it was weird.  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

Wow, I had NOTHING like that, though I did have an (un?)holy attraction to the Prickly Pear Cactus. Couldn't stop looking at them, studying them, photographing them... it was weird.

I have a different kind of addition to them... I can't stop eating them! gonk  

[saint dreya]

TeaDidikai

Deoridhe

Wow, I had NOTHING like that, though I did have an (un?)holy attraction to the Prickly Pear Cactus. Couldn't stop looking at them, studying them, photographing them... it was weird.

I have a different kind of addition to them... I can't stop eating them! gonk

have you tried the prickly pear jelly?  

[TeaDidikai]

phoenix_shadowwolf

have you tried the prickly pear jelly?

Yep. Love the chewy gummies too.  

[saint dreya]

TeaDidikai

phoenix_shadowwolf

have you tried the prickly pear jelly?

Yep. Love the chewy gummies too.

i'm almost tempted to try the tequilla pops with the meal worms in them or even the pops with scorpions...almost.  

[TeaDidikai]

phoenix_shadowwolf

Yep. Love the chewy gummies too.

i'm almost tempted to try the tequilla pops with the meal worms in them or even the pops with scorpions...almost.I like 'em. But then, I don't have any problem eating them slightly stirfried with a bit of salt either.