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You did. I quoted it above.

That's guilt by association. Because one text has been changed- all texts might have been changed.

Because one man mugged someone, all men will be muggers.
Which means that if you say "all Closed Traditions" that are based on sacred texts have been changed and are thus invalid- your argument falls apart.


At which point I'll point out two things:
First- that by virtue of it being a "scripture alone" theology- and that being part of the text- they are indeed reading what their gods want, "altered" the same or otherwise.

Second- you say that just because it might have happened, it has happened, and thus to dismiss all closed traditions as invalid because of that is flawed.

And the key of this whole discussion is just because you dislike a theological position, doesn't mean it invalidates the core of the theology. Further to imply that because you find the core to be invalid you can take and bastardize the parts you do like is insulting.




By all means.

Yes.

Don't use terms of endearment with strangers here. It comes off as patronising and insulting.

Um. I've seen them all. Except A Night at Casablanca cuz I haven't got around to it yet. Night at the Opera and Duck Soup are the best. (Ok that was a tad off topic)

Actually, this is all relevant to the current conversation fork. Trying to back out isn't going to change the fact that you haven't conceded the point that Tea originally called you on.

Eh, I'm just going to give up on saying anything informal to people.




Same here, I own all their movies and watch them religiously. (btw, do you know any place where I can find the "Why A Duck" sequence online, my english teacher is dying to find it.)



If I can even remember that point. Anywho, I never meant for any of it to be specific and I did mean to say "some" not "all" texts. And I also admitted that I have a fluffy habit of not being able to change my thought patterns and therefore almost always being cynical and doubting of things. (which goes beyond religion). So, what does that leave?

Yes, I can see this. Which is why I'm starting to think it's easier to just convince myself to be an athiest than anything else.



Yes, but my head is so thick even I'd be surprised if this discussion stuck with me.





Thanks, that makes sense. Visual learners should not be allowed on gaia, I swear.

Actually, no, I don't. In the rare case where someone from that specific culture comes up to me and says, "hey, those are my deities! You can't have them!" or something to that effect (which really IS rare. I've never had anyone bothered by it...), I simply apologize, and then let the subject drop. My reasoning has always been something like this:
-if people get upset about it, it really must mean a lot to them, which I respect.
-I honestly will not change my beliefs just because someone tells me to. I cannot justify that within myself, so I shan't do it. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I did.
-I can almost guarantee that neither party in a situation like this will be willing to yeild their long-held beliefs. So, I don't think either should.

Were I to ever come across this sort of situation, I would apologize to the person I had offended, and let the subject drop. He could believe whatever he wanted and I would be free to do the same. Isn't that the point of freedom of religion in the first place? I would be sincerely sorry that I had offended him, but at the same point, shouldn't he also be concerned with offending me and my beliefs?

Which brings us to an interesting question: Whose are more important? His or mine? Can we even say?

My answer: both, and neither. Neither of us has more important beliefs than the other, yet both of our beliefs are equally important to ourselves. So, the best solution I can see is to treat each other with mutual respect and find a new topic.


I feel that your beliefs should be your own (and I'm using "your" as the generic second person, not you, yourself, Vertigo Kiwi). I would be against your distancing yourself from chosen deities because of others. If you have been called to them, shouldn't you answer their call? If it offends someone, that is very sad, and very unpleasant. I believe in being respectful above all else. However, that does not mean that you have to compromise your beliefs. Perhaps being diplomatic would be effective? I would be against lying, but would it be completely necessary to bring up such and such a god in the presence of someone you are afraid may take offense? That way both you and your friend who may be offended are permitted to continue on without the confrontation, which is great all around! Non-violence is a great thing.


I do have to say that I have had very few doubts with regards to my deities. I prefer just to trust them. They will tell me when it is time to continue on our separate paths, as they have done in the past (I had an interesting time speaking with Oghma with a druid-in-training friend of mine, for example, which lasted for all of two weeks before it was declared over), and until then, I just have to trust. Being nonconfrontational about whatever gods I'm dealing with at the moment helps, though.

I dunno. That's about it I guess. What about you? You have implied that you have had negative experiences in the past. Would you care to share with me some of those stories? I would be very interested to hear them.

If not, that's okay. I totally understand. The only reason I feel comfortable sharing most of what I have is because this is over the 'net, and I figure people, if not more understanding here, are at least less able to damage me.

Either way, smile . I hope you have a good night!

~Kayle
"It's Nature's Way."

That is one idea which enters my mind frequently, and I sometimes wish I would follow it more often. There are times where I literally take a certain gods image off my altar because I feel like I shouldn't honor them, then a few days later put it back on, then take it off again, and I just do that over and over again. It seems that just when I feel like I need to give up a god, they enter my life again.





I don't feel comfortable sharing anything really. Even conversations over the internet affect me as much as they would if I were having it in real life.

Not so much turning it off as it is just ignoring it, which is basically a dumb thing to do anyways.




Perhaps you shouldn't have said that, it's going to drive my curious mind insane.

Perhaps this continuous cycle should be proof that your gods really do want you? I obviously don't know for certain, but I would hazard to guess that your gods really do desire your company. You seem like such a nice person, how could they not? Maybe they are there trying to say, "Hey! We're here for you, whether you like it or not! We think you're special, and you aren't getting out of this!"


I totally understand not wanting to share. This seems like a very...interesting place, given the other comment I just received. I completely understand. If you would like to talk about anything, though, you are certainly welcome to PM me. If not, no biggie. I just happen to think you're a cool person, and I bet you have some cool stories. smile

Peace out!

~Kayle
"It's Nature's Way"