bands you'd classify as "goth"

[GilAskan]

bluerain202

Hm well the Cure isn't all goth, they switch up their music often, like siouxsie and the banshees.
And I'd say something similar for the Damned.
And Christian Death is way better described as Death Rock.

The Cure: As you said, they switch up their style regularly. Their only pure goth-rock album was Pornography. Other than that, they had a handful of albums with goth influences (Bloodflowers, Disintegration, Seventeen Seconds...), but most of their work is pop-rock.

Siouxsie and the Banshees - I wouldn't say they switched styles so much as they evolved. The Cure bounced back and forth, but Siouxsie and the Banshees just kept pushing forward. Punk -> Post-punk -> Goth-rock -> Progressive.

The Damned - Like Siouxsie and the Banshees, the Damned started out as a punk band and gradually became goth. They only released one or two goth albums before they moved into the hardcore-punk scene.

Christian Death - Yeah, [early] Christian Death were death-rock (their later work after Rozz left shifted to metal...). That pretty much can't be argued. However, the deathrock scene was essentially absorbed into goth by the beginning of the second wave of goth (1985).

...just for clarification, I don't mean to sound like I'm correcting you. What you said was right. I'm just expanding the discussion.  

[GilAskan]

sashomeru78

a goth band would be like evenessance where a gothic band is BLOOD(theyre on vampirefreaks,they sound almost oprah-ish)
goth-rock is close to metal

Sorry, but you don't have a single fact right.

Evanescence is hard-rock, with pop and symphonic influences. Not goth-rock whatsoever.

Also, there is no difference between "gothic rock" and "goth rock", so there's no point in trying to seperate them. Both "goth" and "gothic" are adjectives of (noun form) goth.

Also, no, goth-rock is NOTHING close to metal. Stylistically, they're complete opposites.
Metal emphasizes loud guitar and downplays it's simple bass. Goth-rock emphasizes melodic bass and downplays it's distant guitars.

Metal has crashing drums, goth-rock has lightely tapping drums.

Metal vocals are intense screaming, focusing (typically) on violent and aggresive lyrics. Goth-rock vocals are slow, baritone crooning, focusing (typically) on lost love and other such bleak topics.  

[GilAskan]

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Panic!qAt the Disco

I have a question why is Slipknot (not that I listen to it) not classified "Gothic Music"?

...because they aren't.

"Goth music" is a general term used to describe genres related to "goth-rock" (these include deathrock [not deathmetal], post-punk, ethereal, darkwave, dark cabaret, and more).

Goth-rock is its own individual genre with it's own characteristics.

Slipknot is not goth-rock, nor are they any of the related genres covered by the term goth-music. This is why they are not goth music.

Slipknot are nu-metal, a subgenre of metal which features:
-thrash style anthemic-choruses and guitars
-hardcore rap verses and drum beats
-electronic backbeats or mixes

Other bands of this genre include Mushroomhead, koRn, Limp Bizkit, and Linkin Park. Nu-metal (or any genre of metal in general) has no relation to goth-rock.

Nu-metal is not a sub genre of metal it is a sub genre in which the media classifies false matal. Nu-metal is a sub genre of rock which holds such bands as Korn and Slipknot and Linkoln Park.

You're right in the bands which you listed, however, it is a subgenre of metal because that's where the genre originated.

The early 90's saw the birth of thrash, an aggresive and raw form of metal. In thrash's exodus, another genre was forming: in hip-hop, gangster rap, a style of raw, aggresive rapping was forming. Not too long after the style's beginnings did overlap begin.

Anthrax and Public Enemy did a song together which brought the birth of rap-metal, a genre featuring thrash's instrumental intensity along with gangster rap's lyricisms and beats.

It was from rap-metal which nu-metal was born. Nu-metal maintained the characteristics of rap-metal, though it was electronically mixed, and synthesizers were more prominently used.

So here's the birth of nu-metal:

Heavy Metal -> Thrash
Thrash + Gangster Rap = Rap-Metal
Rap-Metal x Electronic = Nu-metal

Now, this isn't to say that nu-metal IS metal though. It is a subgenre of metal because that is where it's stylistic origins really began. However, it as it's own genre can be considered more like electronic, rap, metal... even industrial or pop. Even individual bands can vary in what they prioritize. Linkin Park for example leans more towards the electronic elements, Limp Bizkit towards the rap elements, and Slipknot leans more towards metal.  

[Digital Malevolence]

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Panic!qAt the Disco

I have a question why is Slipknot (not that I listen to it) not classified "Gothic Music"?

...because they aren't.

"Goth music" is a general term used to describe genres related to "goth-rock" (these include deathrock [not deathmetal], post-punk, ethereal, darkwave, dark cabaret, and more).

Goth-rock is its own individual genre with it's own characteristics.

Slipknot is not goth-rock, nor are they any of the related genres covered by the term goth-music. This is why they are not goth music.

Slipknot are nu-metal, a subgenre of metal which features:
-thrash style anthemic-choruses and guitars
-hardcore rap verses and drum beats
-electronic backbeats or mixes

Other bands of this genre include Mushroomhead, koRn, Limp Bizkit, and Linkin Park. Nu-metal (or any genre of metal in general) has no relation to goth-rock.

Nu-metal is not a sub genre of metal it is a sub genre in which the media classifies false matal. Nu-metal is a sub genre of rock which holds such bands as Korn and Slipknot and Linkoln Park.

You're right in the bands which you listed, however, it is a subgenre of metal because that's where the genre originated.

The early 90's saw the birth of thrash, an aggresive and raw form of metal. In thrash's exodus, another genre was forming: in hip-hop, gangster rap, a style of raw, aggresive rapping was forming. Not too long after the style's beginnings did overlap begin.

Anthrax and Public Enemy did a song together which brought the birth of rap-metal, a genre featuring thrash's instrumental intensity along with gangster rap's lyricisms and beats.

It was from rap-metal which nu-metal was born. Nu-metal maintained the characteristics of rap-metal, though it was electronically mixed, and synthesizers were more prominently used.

So here's the birth of nu-metal:

Heavy Metal -> Thrash
Thrash + Gangster Rap = Rap-Metal
Rap-Metal x Electronic = Nu-metal

Now, this isn't to say that nu-metal IS metal though. It is a subgenre of metal because that is where it's stylistic origins really began. However, it as it's own genre can be considered more like electronic, rap, metal... even industrial or pop. Even individual bands can vary in what they prioritize. Linkin Park for example leans more towards the electronic elements, Limp Bizkit towards the rap elements, and Slipknot leans more towards metal.

alright then, but theres one thing to that, i bolded it.

"Rap-metal" does not exist, there is no metal gerne called "Rap-Metal".
lyrics have nothing to do with genres, its the music, if you sing about death in a country band your not Death metal. the way your voacals are, lyrical themes, and the way you sing has nothing to do with your genre or sub-genre. there is only 12 sub-genre of metal: Heavy Metal, Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, Power Metal, Death Metal, Black Metal, Progressive Metal, Viking Metal, Doom Metal, Goregrind / Grindcore, Gothic Metal, and Folk Metal. there is no Rap-metal, and there is no Nu-metal.  

[GilAskan]

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Panic!qAt the Disco

I have a question why is Slipknot (not that I listen to it) not classified "Gothic Music"?

...because they aren't.

"Goth music" is a general term used to describe genres related to "goth-rock" (these include deathrock [not deathmetal], post-punk, ethereal, darkwave, dark cabaret, and more).

Goth-rock is its own individual genre with it's own characteristics.

Slipknot is not goth-rock, nor are they any of the related genres covered by the term goth-music. This is why they are not goth music.

Slipknot are nu-metal, a subgenre of metal which features:
-thrash style anthemic-choruses and guitars
-hardcore rap verses and drum beats
-electronic backbeats or mixes

Other bands of this genre include Mushroomhead, koRn, Limp Bizkit, and Linkin Park. Nu-metal (or any genre of metal in general) has no relation to goth-rock.

Nu-metal is not a sub genre of metal it is a sub genre in which the media classifies false matal. Nu-metal is a sub genre of rock which holds such bands as Korn and Slipknot and Linkoln Park.

You're right in the bands which you listed, however, it is a subgenre of metal because that's where the genre originated.

The early 90's saw the birth of thrash, an aggresive and raw form of metal. In thrash's exodus, another genre was forming: in hip-hop, gangster rap, a style of raw, aggresive rapping was forming. Not too long after the style's beginnings did overlap begin.

Anthrax and Public Enemy did a song together which brought the birth of rap-metal, a genre featuring thrash's instrumental intensity along with gangster rap's lyricisms and beats.

It was from rap-metal which nu-metal was born. Nu-metal maintained the characteristics of rap-metal, though it was electronically mixed, and synthesizers were more prominently used.

So here's the birth of nu-metal:

Heavy Metal -> Thrash
Thrash + Gangster Rap = Rap-Metal
Rap-Metal x Electronic = Nu-metal

Now, this isn't to say that nu-metal IS metal though. It is a subgenre of metal because that is where it's stylistic origins really began. However, it as it's own genre can be considered more like electronic, rap, metal... even industrial or pop. Even individual bands can vary in what they prioritize. Linkin Park for example leans more towards the electronic elements, Limp Bizkit towards the rap elements, and Slipknot leans more towards metal.

alright then, but theres one thing to that, i bolded it.

"Rap-metal" does not exist, there is no metal gerne called "Rap-Metal".
lyrics have nothing to do with genres, its the music, if you sing about death in a country band your not Death metal. the way your voacals are, lyrical themes, and the way you sing has nothing to do with your genre or sub-genre. there is only 12 sub-genre of metal: Heavy Metal, Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, Power Metal, Death Metal, Black Metal, Progressive Metal, Viking Metal, Doom Metal, Goregrind / Grindcore, Gothic Metal, and Folk Metal. there is no Rap-metal, and there is no Nu-metal.

First, rap-metal: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:2931

Second... There's no definitive number of metal subgenres and cross-genres.

Here's just one list, with 16 subgenres (not including genre cross overs): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heavy_metal_genres .

Allmusic.com (one of the largest music websites on the internet) lists 29 different subgenres of metal.

Some metal fans go so far as to argue that there are even more. I've heard arguments that there are as many as 60 seperate subgenres.

Finally, in regards to lyrics affecting music genre... in my description of the genres, my comments on lyrics referred to lyrical style, not lyrical content. While (as you correctly said) subject matter does not influence the genre, lyrical conventions and styles are part of a genre.

*ahem* However, we should get back on topic. This thread is for the discussion of what bands are or are not goth-rock.  

[MortSanglant]

/can't believe people are daring to contest Gil

 

[GilAskan]

MortSanglant

/can't believe people are daring to contest Gil

So it goes.  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

MortSanglant

/can't believe people are daring to contest Gil

... I don't know about saying something like that.
Sure, he is extremely knowledgeable, but the way you say it almost makes him sound infallible neutral which no human being is.  

[Digital Malevolence]

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Panic!qAt the Disco

I have a question why is Slipknot (not that I listen to it) not classified "Gothic Music"?

...because they aren't.

"Goth music" is a general term used to describe genres related to "goth-rock" (these include deathrock [not deathmetal], post-punk, ethereal, darkwave, dark cabaret, and more).

Goth-rock is its own individual genre with it's own characteristics.

Slipknot is not goth-rock, nor are they any of the related genres covered by the term goth-music. This is why they are not goth music.

Slipknot are nu-metal, a subgenre of metal which features:
-thrash style anthemic-choruses and guitars
-hardcore rap verses and drum beats
-electronic backbeats or mixes

Other bands of this genre include Mushroomhead, koRn, Limp Bizkit, and Linkin Park. Nu-metal (or any genre of metal in general) has no relation to goth-rock.

Nu-metal is not a sub genre of metal it is a sub genre in which the media classifies false matal. Nu-metal is a sub genre of rock which holds such bands as Korn and Slipknot and Linkoln Park.

You're right in the bands which you listed, however, it is a subgenre of metal because that's where the genre originated.

The early 90's saw the birth of thrash, an aggresive and raw form of metal. In thrash's exodus, another genre was forming: in hip-hop, gangster rap, a style of raw, aggresive rapping was forming. Not too long after the style's beginnings did overlap begin.

Anthrax and Public Enemy did a song together which brought the birth of rap-metal, a genre featuring thrash's instrumental intensity along with gangster rap's lyricisms and beats.

It was from rap-metal which nu-metal was born. Nu-metal maintained the characteristics of rap-metal, though it was electronically mixed, and synthesizers were more prominently used.

So here's the birth of nu-metal:

Heavy Metal -> Thrash
Thrash + Gangster Rap = Rap-Metal
Rap-Metal x Electronic = Nu-metal

Now, this isn't to say that nu-metal IS metal though. It is a subgenre of metal because that is where it's stylistic origins really began. However, it as it's own genre can be considered more like electronic, rap, metal... even industrial or pop. Even individual bands can vary in what they prioritize. Linkin Park for example leans more towards the electronic elements, Limp Bizkit towards the rap elements, and Slipknot leans more towards metal.

alright then, but theres one thing to that, i bolded it.

"Rap-metal" does not exist, there is no metal gerne called "Rap-Metal".
lyrics have nothing to do with genres, its the music, if you sing about death in a country band your not Death metal. the way your voacals are, lyrical themes, and the way you sing has nothing to do with your genre or sub-genre. there is only 12 sub-genre of metal: Heavy Metal, Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, Power Metal, Death Metal, Black Metal, Progressive Metal, Viking Metal, Doom Metal, Goregrind / Grindcore, Gothic Metal, and Folk Metal. there is no Rap-metal, and there is no Nu-metal.

First, rap-metal: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:2931

Second... There's no definitive number of metal subgenres and cross-genres.

Here's just one list, with 16 subgenres (not including genre cross overs): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heavy_metal_genres .

Allmusic.com (one of the largest music websites on the internet) lists 29 different subgenres of metal.

Some metal fans go so far as to argue that there are even more. I've heard arguments that there are as many as 60 seperate subgenres.

Finally, in regards to lyrics affecting music genre... in my description of the genres, my comments on lyrics referred to lyrical style, not lyrical content. While (as you correctly said) subject matter does not influence the genre, lyrical conventions and styles are part of a genre.

*ahem* However, we should get back on topic. This thread is for the discussion of what bands are or are not goth-rock.

i agree we should get back on topic, but first i would like to point out that wikipedia is the worst possible source you could have put, they get everything wrong. also i will beleive you that Rap-Metal is a genre if you can name at least one band from that genre, a sort of well known one or at least one i could look up and find.  

[GilAskan]

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

Nu-metal is not a sub genre of metal it is a sub genre in which the media classifies false matal. Nu-metal is a sub genre of rock which holds such bands as Korn and Slipknot and Linkoln Park.

You're right in the bands which you listed, however, it is a subgenre of metal because that's where the genre originated.

The early 90's saw the birth of thrash, an aggresive and raw form of metal. In thrash's exodus, another genre was forming: in hip-hop, gangster rap, a style of raw, aggresive rapping was forming. Not too long after the style's beginnings did overlap begin.

Anthrax and Public Enemy did a song together which brought the birth of rap-metal, a genre featuring thrash's instrumental intensity along with gangster rap's lyricisms and beats.

It was from rap-metal which nu-metal was born. Nu-metal maintained the characteristics of rap-metal, though it was electronically mixed, and synthesizers were more prominently used.

So here's the birth of nu-metal:

Heavy Metal -> Thrash
Thrash + Gangster Rap = Rap-Metal
Rap-Metal x Electronic = Nu-metal

Now, this isn't to say that nu-metal IS metal though. It is a subgenre of metal because that is where it's stylistic origins really began. However, it as it's own genre can be considered more like electronic, rap, metal... even industrial or pop. Even individual bands can vary in what they prioritize. Linkin Park for example leans more towards the electronic elements, Limp Bizkit towards the rap elements, and Slipknot leans more towards metal.

alright then, but theres one thing to that, i bolded it.

"Rap-metal" does not exist, there is no metal gerne called "Rap-Metal".
lyrics have nothing to do with genres, its the music, if you sing about death in a country band your not Death metal. the way your voacals are, lyrical themes, and the way you sing has nothing to do with your genre or sub-genre. there is only 12 sub-genre of metal: Heavy Metal, Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, Power Metal, Death Metal, Black Metal, Progressive Metal, Viking Metal, Doom Metal, Goregrind / Grindcore, Gothic Metal, and Folk Metal. there is no Rap-metal, and there is no Nu-metal.

First, rap-metal: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:2931

Second... There's no definitive number of metal subgenres and cross-genres.

Here's just one list, with 16 subgenres (not including genre cross overs): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heavy_metal_genres .

Allmusic.com (one of the largest music websites on the internet) lists 29 different subgenres of metal.

Some metal fans go so far as to argue that there are even more. I've heard arguments that there are as many as 60 seperate subgenres.

Finally, in regards to lyrics affecting music genre... in my description of the genres, my comments on lyrics referred to lyrical style, not lyrical content. While (as you correctly said) subject matter does not influence the genre, lyrical conventions and styles are part of a genre.

*ahem* However, we should get back on topic. This thread is for the discussion of what bands are or are not goth-rock.

i agree we should get back on topic, but first i would like to point out that wikipedia is the worst possible source you could have put, they get everything wrong. also i will beleive you that Rap-Metal is a genre if you can name at least one band from that genre, a sort of well known one or at least one i could look up and find.

Anthrax and Rage Against the Machine are the most well known.

Also, Wikipedia isn't that bad of a source. They were about 6 months ago, but after a change in policy, most incorrect information on the site is corrected within an hour of it being posted. It's still not a perfect system, but at least 90% of their information is correct at any given time.  

[Digital Malevolence]

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

You're right in the bands which you listed, however, it is a subgenre of metal because that's where the genre originated.

The early 90's saw the birth of thrash, an aggresive and raw form of metal. In thrash's exodus, another genre was forming: in hip-hop, gangster rap, a style of raw, aggresive rapping was forming. Not too long after the style's beginnings did overlap begin.

Anthrax and Public Enemy did a song together which brought the birth of rap-metal, a genre featuring thrash's instrumental intensity along with gangster rap's lyricisms and beats.

It was from rap-metal which nu-metal was born. Nu-metal maintained the characteristics of rap-metal, though it was electronically mixed, and synthesizers were more prominently used.

So here's the birth of nu-metal:

Heavy Metal -> Thrash
Thrash + Gangster Rap = Rap-Metal
Rap-Metal x Electronic = Nu-metal

Now, this isn't to say that nu-metal IS metal though. It is a subgenre of metal because that is where it's stylistic origins really began. However, it as it's own genre can be considered more like electronic, rap, metal... even industrial or pop. Even individual bands can vary in what they prioritize. Linkin Park for example leans more towards the electronic elements, Limp Bizkit towards the rap elements, and Slipknot leans more towards metal.

alright then, but theres one thing to that, i bolded it.

"Rap-metal" does not exist, there is no metal gerne called "Rap-Metal".
lyrics have nothing to do with genres, its the music, if you sing about death in a country band your not Death metal. the way your voacals are, lyrical themes, and the way you sing has nothing to do with your genre or sub-genre. there is only 12 sub-genre of metal: Heavy Metal, Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, Power Metal, Death Metal, Black Metal, Progressive Metal, Viking Metal, Doom Metal, Goregrind / Grindcore, Gothic Metal, and Folk Metal. there is no Rap-metal, and there is no Nu-metal.

First, rap-metal: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:2931

Second... There's no definitive number of metal subgenres and cross-genres.

Here's just one list, with 16 subgenres (not including genre cross overs): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heavy_metal_genres .

Allmusic.com (one of the largest music websites on the internet) lists 29 different subgenres of metal.

Some metal fans go so far as to argue that there are even more. I've heard arguments that there are as many as 60 seperate subgenres.

Finally, in regards to lyrics affecting music genre... in my description of the genres, my comments on lyrics referred to lyrical style, not lyrical content. While (as you correctly said) subject matter does not influence the genre, lyrical conventions and styles are part of a genre.

*ahem* However, we should get back on topic. This thread is for the discussion of what bands are or are not goth-rock.

i agree we should get back on topic, but first i would like to point out that wikipedia is the worst possible source you could have put, they get everything wrong. also i will beleive you that Rap-Metal is a genre if you can name at least one band from that genre, a sort of well known one or at least one i could look up and find.

Anthrax and Rage Against the Machine are the most well known.

Also, Wikipedia isn't that bad of a source. They were about 6 months ago, but after a change in policy, most incorrect information on the site is corrected within an hour of it being posted. It's still not a perfect system, but at least 90% of their information is correct at any given time.

Anthrax are Speed/Thrash Metal and Rage Against The Machine are Idustrial Rock. RATM do not have the right musical structure to even be called Metal or "Rap-Metal" .

wikipedia

Rapcore
Rapcore (sometimes called Rap metal) is a cross-genre reference to metal bands that institute the vocal and lyrical form of rap. It is normally used in association with the term 'alternative metal' to differentiate between nu metal bands that contain hip-hop influence, and those that do not. It is also used occasionally to refer to bands that have worked alongside hip-hop artists on tracks before. Some modern examples are Limp Bizkit, Crazy Town, Linkin Park and The Bloodhound Gang.

that proves wikipedia isnt a good source, Linkin Park? Bloodhound Gang? Crazy Town? Limp Bizkit?...metal? wrong...want another example?

wikipedia

Christian metal
Christian metal is another cross-genre grouping which contains metal bands that introduce christian themes into their lyrics. Often the Christian themes are melded with the subjects of the genre the band is rooted in, often giving a supposedly Christian take on the subject matter. Some examples are P.O.D., Project 86, Pillar, Demon Hunter and Mortification.

 

[GilAskan]

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

alright then, but theres one thing to that, i bolded it.

"Rap-metal" does not exist, there is no metal gerne called "Rap-Metal".
lyrics have nothing to do with genres, its the music, if you sing about death in a country band your not Death metal. the way your voacals are, lyrical themes, and the way you sing has nothing to do with your genre or sub-genre. there is only 12 sub-genre of metal: Heavy Metal, Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, Power Metal, Death Metal, Black Metal, Progressive Metal, Viking Metal, Doom Metal, Goregrind / Grindcore, Gothic Metal, and Folk Metal. there is no Rap-metal, and there is no Nu-metal.

First, rap-metal: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:2931

Second... There's no definitive number of metal subgenres and cross-genres.

Here's just one list, with 16 subgenres (not including genre cross overs): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heavy_metal_genres .

Allmusic.com (one of the largest music websites on the internet) lists 29 different subgenres of metal.

Some metal fans go so far as to argue that there are even more. I've heard arguments that there are as many as 60 seperate subgenres.

Finally, in regards to lyrics affecting music genre... in my description of the genres, my comments on lyrics referred to lyrical style, not lyrical content. While (as you correctly said) subject matter does not influence the genre, lyrical conventions and styles are part of a genre.

*ahem* However, we should get back on topic. This thread is for the discussion of what bands are or are not goth-rock.

i agree we should get back on topic, but first i would like to point out that wikipedia is the worst possible source you could have put, they get everything wrong. also i will beleive you that Rap-Metal is a genre if you can name at least one band from that genre, a sort of well known one or at least one i could look up and find.

Anthrax and Rage Against the Machine are the most well known.

Also, Wikipedia isn't that bad of a source. They were about 6 months ago, but after a change in policy, most incorrect information on the site is corrected within an hour of it being posted. It's still not a perfect system, but at least 90% of their information is correct at any given time.

Anthrax are Speed/Thrash Metal and Rage Against The Machine are Idustrial Rock. RATM do not have the right musical structure to even be called Metal or "Rap-Metal" .

wikipedia

Rapcore
Rapcore (sometimes called Rap metal) is a cross-genre reference to metal bands that institute the vocal and lyrical form of rap. It is normally used in association with the term 'alternative metal' to differentiate between nu metal bands that contain hip-hop influence, and those that do not. It is also used occasionally to refer to bands that have worked alongside hip-hop artists on tracks before. Some modern examples are Limp Bizkit, Crazy Town, Linkin Park and The Bloodhound Gang.

that proves wikipedia isnt a good source, Linkin Park? Bloodhound Gang? Crazy Town? Limp Bizkit?...metal? wrong...want another example?

wikipedia

Christian metal
Christian metal is another cross-genre grouping which contains metal bands that introduce christian themes into their lyrics. Often the Christian themes are melded with the subjects of the genre the band is rooted in, often giving a supposedly Christian take on the subject matter. Some examples are P.O.D., Project 86, Pillar, Demon Hunter and Mortification.

www.allmusic.com
www.music.com
www.lastfm.com
www.music-map.com
music.download.com
www.soundclick.com

All of them (and more) have information about rap-metal.

Where may I ask are your sources? I don't want to seem confrontational, but you keep claiming all of my facts to be wrong but have thusfar brought forth NOTHING to prove your own facts to have any factuality.  

[Digital Malevolence]

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

Digital Malevolence

GilAskan

First, rap-metal: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:2931

Second... There's no definitive number of metal subgenres and cross-genres.

Here's just one list, with 16 subgenres (not including genre cross overs): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heavy_metal_genres .

Allmusic.com (one of the largest music websites on the internet) lists 29 different subgenres of metal.

Some metal fans go so far as to argue that there are even more. I've heard arguments that there are as many as 60 seperate subgenres.

Finally, in regards to lyrics affecting music genre... in my description of the genres, my comments on lyrics referred to lyrical style, not lyrical content. While (as you correctly said) subject matter does not influence the genre, lyrical conventions and styles are part of a genre.

*ahem* However, we should get back on topic. This thread is for the discussion of what bands are or are not goth-rock.

i agree we should get back on topic, but first i would like to point out that wikipedia is the worst possible source you could have put, they get everything wrong. also i will beleive you that Rap-Metal is a genre if you can name at least one band from that genre, a sort of well known one or at least one i could look up and find.

Anthrax and Rage Against the Machine are the most well known.

Also, Wikipedia isn't that bad of a source. They were about 6 months ago, but after a change in policy, most incorrect information on the site is corrected within an hour of it being posted. It's still not a perfect system, but at least 90% of their information is correct at any given time.

Anthrax are Speed/Thrash Metal and Rage Against The Machine are Idustrial Rock. RATM do not have the right musical structure to even be called Metal or "Rap-Metal" .

wikipedia

Rapcore
Rapcore (sometimes called Rap metal) is a cross-genre reference to metal bands that institute the vocal and lyrical form of rap. It is normally used in association with the term 'alternative metal' to differentiate between nu metal bands that contain hip-hop influence, and those that do not. It is also used occasionally to refer to bands that have worked alongside hip-hop artists on tracks before. Some modern examples are Limp Bizkit, Crazy Town, Linkin Park and The Bloodhound Gang.

that proves wikipedia isnt a good source, Linkin Park? Bloodhound Gang? Crazy Town? Limp Bizkit?...metal? wrong...want another example?

wikipedia

Christian metal
Christian metal is another cross-genre grouping which contains metal bands that introduce christian themes into their lyrics. Often the Christian themes are melded with the subjects of the genre the band is rooted in, often giving a supposedly Christian take on the subject matter. Some examples are P.O.D., Project 86, Pillar, Demon Hunter and Mortification.

www.allmusic.com
www.music.com
www.lastfm.com
www.music-map.com
music.download.com
www.soundclick.com

All of them (and more) have information about rap-metal.

Where may I ask are your sources? I don't want to seem confrontational, but you keep claiming all of my facts to be wrong but have thusfar brought forth NOTHING to prove your own facts to have any factuality.

of coarse all those have information about "Rap Metal" its another one of the media run websites and/or fans who dont understand music. metal can have rap influences in it but it doesnt make it "Rap-Metal" the band Primordial has celtic influences but it doesnt make it "Celtic Metal"....anyways, theres nothing about "Rap-Metal" on Metal-Archives which is probably the best source i could give you...although im sure i could find more by just going to google and typing in "Rap-Metal doesnt exist" but that wouldnt be reliable.  

[Rellik San]

Probably already been said, but the cure, Siouxie and the banshee's, New Order, Type O Negative. Basically most things with darkly sexual connotations I guess could pass as traditional goth, Siouxie and the Banshee's and the Cure were more style setters, but are still held in high regard.  

[Isobel Bellamy]

Rellik San

Probably already been said, but the cure, Siouxie and the banshee's, New Order, Type O Negative. Basically most things with darkly sexual connotations I guess could pass as traditional goth, Siouxie and the Banshee's and the Cure were more style setters, but are still held in high regard.

Uh, New Order are more electronica/dance. Used to be when they were Joy Division but then they started exprimenting in other genres
Type O, more on the metal side, hella fun band though XD