Eclectic Wicca

[Neko_Bast]

reagun ban

Neko_Bast

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Gardner was initiated by a Traditional English Witch's coven, not a Wiccan coven. Since it is historically dictated by Hutton in "The Triumph of the Moon" that The Lord and Lady of Wicca did NOT exist before the invention Wicca, which was invented in the fifties, we don't need to prove anything. The burden of proof is on you.

Also if Gardner created the God and Goddess then wouldn't that make them falts gods? Gods are not created, they exist.

Firstly, no. It wouldn't neccessarily make them false Gods. They may be Gods who did not reveal themselves to anyone until Gardner.
Secondly, no, it wouldn't neccessarily make them false Gods they may be like Om... ala small gods.
Thirdly, BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU.

You keep saying that the burden of proof is on me. Well, your only proof that I'm wrong is one man's word. Do you believe that any one man knows all of the truth?  

[CuAnnan]

Neko_Bast

You keep saying that the burden of proof is on me. Well, your only proof that I'm wrong is one man's word. Do you believe that any one man knows all of the truth?

Fallacy, shifting burden of proof.
BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU.  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Neko_Bast

Oh....lets see. rolleyes The differece between them is that a Catholic Nun is a bride of Christ. She is, in a sence, married to him. An Celibate Catholic will evenualy have sex. My whole family is Catholic.

So, as someone who knows Catholics, you are aware that one does not up and declair herself a Nun one day, yes? That one goes to convent, studies, worships, seeks guidence from members of the Sisterhood and from Priests, takes tests, takes vows, and does a whole host of other things that makes her different from say me, who knows the rosary in Latin (even if I can only say it in a bad fake Irish accent).

The difference is the same between you and a Wiccan. And just like I would be a liar to say I was a Nun, you are a liar to say you're a Wiccan.

um....no. You don't have to do all those things to be a Nun. Someone can just up and call themselves a nun and start thier own Nunery if they so chose. The only real requirment is that you spend you days worhiping God and never have sex. If she wanted to be part of an existing Nunery she would have to take thier vows, but she wouldn't have to, to be a Nun.  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

You keep saying that the burden of proof is on me. Well, your only proof that I'm wrong is one man's word. Do you believe that any one man knows all of the truth?

It's called being an Authority.

We know that Gardner created Wicca. We know that he had rules. Lineaged Wiccans agree that there are mysteries along with other requirements in order to be Wiccan.

What you do is known as a false appeal to authority, as those you cite did not know about Wicca, they knew about outer court Wiccan influenced practices.

Now- the fact that I, a non-Wiccan, am able to answer more of Reagun's questions than you, a self proclaimed Wiccan who says she studied it, shows that one does not even have to be Wiccan in order to answer the Outer Court Questions. The inner court questions can be answered by Wiccans as they learned what it is to be part of the religion.

You have no clue what it means to be Wiccan. It's your job to prove that you have the right to.

I'll note this much: As it stands now, you have broken a handful of the 161 Laws, and thus Law 35 comes into Play:

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And if any break these Laws, even under torture, THE CURSE OF THE GODDESS SHALL BE UPON THEM, so they may never be reborn on earth and may remain where they belong, in the hell of the Christians.

Have fun kiddo.  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

um....no. You don't have to do all those things to be a Nun. Someone can just up and call themselves a nun and start thier own Nunery if they so chose. The only real requirment is that you spend you days worhiping God and never have sex. If she wanted to be part of an existing Nunery she would have to take thier vows, but she wouldn't have to, to be a Nun.

Actually, she can't. She has to have the permission of the Arch Dioceses, it was a policy designed to keep people from misrepresenting the Church and/or comitting fraud.

Good gods, if you're going to lie about yourself, that's one thing- but to lie about Nuns. Well, guess that 35'th law is going to be a real b***h for you. I am sure hell has a special kind of torment for those who hold false witness against Nuns.  

[Neko_Bast]

reagun ban

Neko_Bast

You keep saying that the burden of proof is on me. Well, your only proof that I'm wrong is one man's word. Do you believe that any one man knows all of the truth?

Fallacy, shifting burden of proof.
BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU.

You demanded answers of me. You said that you were charged by the Goddess and God to have these questions answered. Your only athority on this is beacuse of what one man said.

The simple fact that you didn't answer my question makes me believe that you do believe that one man can know all the truth.  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

reagun ban

Neko_Bast

You keep saying that the burden of proof is on me. Well, your only proof that I'm wrong is one man's word. Do you believe that any one man knows all of the truth?

Fallacy, shifting burden of proof.
BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU.

You demanded answers of me. You said that you were charged by the Goddess and God to have these questions answered. Your only athority on this is beacuse of what one man said.

The simple fact that you didn't answer my question makes me believe that you do believe that one man can know all the truth.

Actually, all the real Wiccans agree. Shall we get Kundz in here?

Do me a favor, learn what a logical fallacy is and do not use one in your next post.  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Quote:

And if any break these Laws, even under torture, THE CURSE OF THE GODDESS SHALL BE UPON THEM, so they may never be reborn on earth and may remain where they belong, in the hell of the Christians.

Have fun kiddo.

After reading them I noticed something

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So be it ordained that no one shall tell anyone not of the craft who be of the Wicca,
nor give any names or where they bide,
or in any way tell anything which can betray any of us to our foes.
Nor may he tell where the Covendom be.
Or the Covenstead.
Or where the meetings be.

These are the laws that would get me the curse. They are rules of Security.  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Neko_Bast

um....no. You don't have to do all those things to be a Nun. Someone can just up and call themselves a nun and start thier own Nunery if they so chose. The only real requirment is that you spend you days worhiping God and never have sex. If she wanted to be part of an existing Nunery she would have to take thier vows, but she wouldn't have to, to be a Nun.

Actually, she can't. She has to have the permission of the Arch Dioceses, it was a policy designed to keep people from misrepresenting the Church and/or comitting fraud.

Good gods, if you're going to lie about yourself, that's one thing- but to lie about Nuns. Well, guess that 35'th law is going to be a real b***h for you. I am sure hell has a special kind of torment for those who hold false witness against Nuns.

well I was hopeing that that this wouldn't get into a "I'm right your wrong" thing. There are Catholics that believe as you stated, but there are also others that believe as I stated. This is off the subject.  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

TeaDidikai

Quote:

And if any break these Laws, even under torture, THE CURSE OF THE GODDESS SHALL BE UPON THEM, so they may never be reborn on earth and may remain where they belong, in the hell of the Christians.

Have fun kiddo.

After reading them I noticed something

Quote:

So be it ordained that no one shall tell anyone not of the craft who be of the Wicca,
nor give any names or where they bide,
or in any way tell anything which can betray any of us to our foes.
Nor may he tell where the Covendom be.
Or the Covenstead.
Or where the meetings be.

These are the laws that would get me the curse. They are rules of Security.

Actually, I know you broke 61 and 78, 79, 80, 82, 126, 130... Let's see what else is a safe bet-71 most likely.

I wonder if you'll get to have sun tan lotion when the Curse falls on you.  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

well I was hopeing that that this wouldn't get into a "I'm right your wrong" thing. There are Catholics that believe as you stated, but there are also others that believe as I stated. This is off the subject.

Except- I am right, and you are wrong. And if a woman ups and claims to be a nun without going through the proper channels, she gets tried in court for fraud.

Which, compaired to burning in Christian hell for breaking the Laws of the Wicca- seems like a pretty light charge really.  

[TeaDidikai]

Have we shown that even if you think you're wiccan, you'd best shut your trap? Or what?  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Actually, I know you broke 61 and 78, 79, 80, 82, 126, 130... Let's see what else is a safe bet-71 most likely.

I wonder if you'll get to have sun tan lotion when the Curse falls on you.

Ok...lets go through these. rolleyes

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61) Keep all thoughts of the craft from your mind.

I think everone in this guild brakes this one.

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78 ) Ever remember ye are the hidden children of the Goddess so never do anything to disgrace them or Her.

This one is tricky because you believe I am, and I believe I'm not. Wiccans are not hidden anymore.

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79)Never boast, never threaten, never say you would wish ill of anyone.

I havn't boasted, threatened, or said I wish ill of anyone here.

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80)If any person not in the Circle, speak of the craft, say, "Speak not to me of such, it frightens me, 'tis evil luck to speak of it."
82) To such as these, ever deny all knowledge

Um...let me think. No one dose that anymore. Wiccans are not largley thought of as "evil."

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126)"Tis the Old Law and the most important of all laws, that no one may do anything which will endanger any of the craft, or bring them into contact with the law of the land or any persecutors.

How did I brake this one.....

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130) But ever say, "I know not of it here, perchance there may be but afar off, I know not where."

Another that is outdated. People are very open about this now.  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Have we shown that even if you think you're wiccan, you'd best shut your trap? Or what?

Why? Are you saying that you'll shut me up? That sounds like a threat  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

Ok...lets go through these. rolleyes

Quote:

61) Keep all thoughts of the craft from your mind.

I think everone in this guild brakes this one.

Except, most of the guild isn't Wiccan.

My religion has no prohibition against being open and honest about witchcraft within the bounds set out for me by my Baba.

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78 ) Ever remember ye are the hidden children of the Goddess so never do anything to disgrace them or Her.

This one is tricky because you believe I am, and I believe I'm not. Wiccans are not hidden anymore.

No child. I'm calling you a disgrace. The logical fallacies, the inability to answer a damn question about Wicca, your raping of her tradition and your ignorance is an affront. Which means one of two things- either you're a Wiccan who has the curse upon her, or you're a liar who will be spared. Either way, you should really shut your trap.

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79)Never boast, never threaten, never say you would wish ill of anyone.

I havn't boasted, threatened, or said I wish ill of anyone here.

You boasted. You said that you saying you are something makes you more right than those who actually earned their initiation. It will be highly amusing if the torture in hell gets worse for you for every Law you break.

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80)If any person not in the Circle, speak of the craft, say, "Speak not to me of such, it frightens me, 'tis evil luck to speak of it."
82) To such as these, ever deny all knowledge

Um...let me think. No one dose that anymore. Wiccans are not largley thought of as "evil."

Contested. I know many a Wiccan who follows those. They came into my shop to buy the pretty candles I sold. That was it. Oh- and some oils for lotions.

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126)"Tis the Old Law and the most important of all laws, that no one may do anything which will endanger any of the craft, or bring them into contact with the law of the land or any persecutors.

How did I brake this one.....

Your ISP can be traced to your computer. Folks can access your data and use it to betray you and your loved ones.

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130) But ever say, "I know not of it here, perchance there may be but afar off, I know not where."

Another that is outdated. People are very open about this now.

Some are, some aren't. So- if you don't want to follow the rules of the religion- PICK A NEW ******** RELIGION AND STOP CALLING YOURSELF WICCAN.

Was that clear enough this time?