Strange experience?

[TeaDidikai]

Aino Ailill

I'm afraid I don't see the insult here. Not knowing you outside of this thread, it is possible that you, a largely unknown entity, do not know about the culture you profess to participate in. Given that this person knows little to nothing of the Rroma culture, then Orchidsandfractals can not draw from your words proof either of your legitimacy or your lack there-of and, as such, can only label you as potentially knowledgeable.

Please, will you explain why this is offensive? I believe that whatever error you view Orchid to be making here in regard to you, I made prior to seeing evidence of your claim. I would like to know what I ought to be apologizing for.

For context:

Quote:

It is possible my Rroma friend knows nothing about her culture, just as it is possible you know nothing about your culture.

And that's what it is about. Context. She's making a claim- one based on her ignorance.

Let's put this into another less charged and more familiar context.

Person A: Wicca is an eclectic theology that is about worshiping nature.
Person B: Wicca is a fertility cult.
Person A: We're not a cult!

If person B suggests person A doesn't know what Wicca is, it's because of positive statements from person A. If person A suggests person B doesn't know what Wicca is, it's because they are ignorant of person B.

The implication that one is ignorant after having demonstrated to the contrary isn't acceptable, least of all from someone who has repeatedly indulged their privilege as an attempt to justify their position and undermine others.  

[Aino Ailill]

TeaDidikai

Aino Ailill

I'm afraid I don't see the insult here. Not knowing you outside of this thread, it is possible that you, a largely unknown entity, do not know about the culture you profess to participate in. Given that this person knows little to nothing of the Rroma culture, then Orchidsandfractals can not draw from your words proof either of your legitimacy or your lack there-of and, as such, can only label you as potentially knowledgeable.

Please, will you explain why this is offensive? I believe that whatever error you view Orchid to be making here in regard to you, I made prior to seeing evidence of your claim. I would like to know what I ought to be apologizing for.

For context:

Quote:

It is possible my Rroma friend knows nothing about her culture, just as it is possible you know nothing about your culture.

And that's what it is about. Context. She's making a claim- one based on her ignorance.

Let's put this into another less charged and more familiar context.

Person A: Wicca is an eclectic theology that is about worshiping nature.
Person B: Wicca is a fertility cult.
Person A: We're not a cult!

If person B suggests person A doesn't know what Wicca is, it's because of positive statements from person A. If person A suggests person B doesn't know what Wicca is, it's because they are ignorant of person B.

The implication that one is ignorant after having demonstrated to the contrary isn't acceptable, least of all from someone who has repeatedly indulged their privilege as an attempt to justify their position and undermine others.

But the implication here wasn't that you were ignorant, but rather that Orchid could not tell if you were or not due to Orchid's own ignorance.  

[TeaDidikai]

Aino Ailill

But the implication here wasn't that you were ignorant, but rather that Orchid could not tell if you were or not due to Orchid's own ignorance.

It's actually a bit of both- since it's arguing for the potential from her ignorance. That's the problem.  

[Recursive Paradox]

Orchidsandfractals

I'm just suggesting it's more probable that she does know about her culture to some degree(More so than many Americans do, at least. I know many Scottish American people who think that England is the same as Scotland.), and prefers a different term.

This argument hedges upon the false assumption that the word Rroma is a political correctness term and not the actual primary endonym of the culture. Furthermore it assumes that the G~ word is anything more than a racist exonym applied to a culture wrongfully and then used in a bunch of stereotypical and largely erasing depictions in American culture.

The simple fact that she regards Rroma as PC and G~ as applicable is all the evidence I need to easily dismiss her as being a part of the culture.

Quote:

There are people of African Ancestry who prefer the n word to African American(and many who will be VERY offended if you use the n word.), or who prefer "Black"(Which is often considered a racial slur by others, as one does not have a black skin tone, but a "brown" skin tone), and they know about their culture, and how the n word was used to perscute people.

Um, have you met even a single AA (African Ancestry) POC (person of color) who prefers the n word to describe their race?

Cuz I sure as ******** haven't.

Quote:

I prefer the word Pict(A racial slur at one point, the "tattoed people".) to Caladonians or some varient thereafter,even though Pict is not the word used by my people at any time.

Aren't you American culture, with absolutely no claim to your heritage culture whatsoever?

Quote:

I prefer Jew to Isreali personally.

This doesn't connect. Jew is a religious word, not really an exonym (it's a primary in house noun) and Israeli is a person from Israel who may not even necessarily be Jewish.

Quote:

I prefer white to Cacuasian and many people prefer the latter.

White isn't a racial slur, nor is it ever used as one.

Quote:

My peer objected to a teacher using the word Roma, even though she knew what it meant(As she told the teacher to use the g word instead.), which to me speaks not of ignorance, but of a personal preference for a word to describe a culture.

And I am asserting that she is showing such a personal preference as an outsider to the culture and ergo applying her cultural privilege to do further damage to the culture in question.

For instance, correcting teachers about word usage in a blanket way shows she has no concept of how many Rroma do find the word offensive. In fact, even the few Rroma I know who do use the word always make sure to explain when using it that it's a slur for the Rroma, they're using it because no one knows who the ******** the Rroma are by their name, and to not use this word but instead use Rroma around any other Rroma individual or in general.

I find it highly unlikely that your friend is Rroma in any way or form. Perhaps heritage, but this is far more likely cultural appropriation than anything.

Quote:

The word v****a orginally meant a sheaf for a sword. Not exacly a complement, and the c word meant that part of women's anatomy in other cultures, without any particularly insulting meaning attached. Now, the meanings have switched, but some feminists prefer the c word, despite the historical negative connotation to it.

This isn't applicable because no culture spans the entirety of women (cis or trans). This means that different women are often from different cultures, which influences what words work for them.

Such an analogy is not enough to establish what people in the same culture will do about a particular slur. Especially a closed culture.  

[Recursive Paradox]

Orchidsandfractals

I don't know everything about the discrimination against the Rroma people in the USA, though to the best of my knowledge, it is not common(Though, it could simply be not common due to the small numbers of Rroma.), and I have never seen an example of it(And I do know a person who considers herself to be Rroma.), other than people using the gword, but in a non demeaning manner as it is not intended as an insult, but as an accurate cultural description, which may be made in ignorance according to you.

Could you cool down the run on sentences? They make it hard to follow your thinking.

Your ignorance regarding hate crimes against the Rroma (as well as your lack of exposure) is not reason to dismiss it or to assume they are not discriminated against.

Your racial privilege protects you not only from that kind of discrimination, but from knowledge of it. Because you had no reason until now to even look.

Quote:

Thus, I can say it does not exist to the best of my knowledge.

I'm not really sure how to say this without sounding insulting. The knowledge of a racially (or otherwise) privileged individual about the difficulties, pain, oppression or harm done to an oppressed people that they are privileged above is worth very very little.

You as a cis person probably have absolutely no concept of what trans folk go through on a daily basis. So your knowledge regarding us is patently worthless as a basis for any claims.

Quote:

Compared to discrimination against Jews, Blacks, GLBT, heck, even Baptists(who have been called heathens by an... interesting person who I went to high school with...), I would presume that it is a much lower rate.

Your presumption is based upon your privileged ignorance.

Quote:

I am not aware of any such events in the US.

Most white folk aren't. But most white folk aren't aware of a lot of things.

Quote:

If you do not consider my peer to be Rroma, it is your opinion, and as a Rroma, I will regard your opinion as that of someone who claims to be part of the Rroma culture as well, and if you call yourself such, as equally valid as her opinion of her culture if I knew you in person.However, if you say it requires talking to other people of her culture, her little brother generally calls himself American.

This is a poor basis of dismissal as well, simply because the logic is fairly well founded regarding exonyms, comprehension of the proper structure in the culture. You've been offered several web sources on the word as a slur and the linguistics of the situation. You can glean from those the fact that, logically, your friend is most likely not Rroma based simply on the fact that she regards Rroma as PC and unwanted and G~ as perfectly fine and wanted.

Quote:

I never knew her to lie.

Ignorance and self delusion allows even the most honest to express false things with complete conviction.

Quote:

I consider her usage of the term valid as she considers herself to be a part of the culture.

How is she part of the culture?  

[Recursive Paradox]

Orchidsandfractals

whiporwill-o

i find this to be an opinion. it is just as easy to lie irl as it is online, example: plenty of men and women pass themselves off as the opposite gender in real life aka drag queens and kings.

and it may not even have anything to do with lying, simply misinformation, such as the countless people who claim to be of a specific religion but, for many reasons, simply can not be due to the traditions expectations of its followers.

It's pretty easy to spot a drag queen or king who is not planning on changing their gender. Or I should say, it's easier to spot them IRL than it is on the internet without photos or voices. It is possible my peer is misinformed, and she is misinformed a bit about(or at least as far as I know), what the g word means about her supposed culture.

I'm gonna call bullshit on this. There are drag queens and kings who are totally weekend warriors and you'd never have a damn clue they were drag folk until they told you.

Also @Everyone, why are we equating drag to lying? That's edging pretty close to cissexism and transphobia.  

[maenad nuri]

Recursive Paradox

I'm gonna call bullshit on this. There are drag queens and kings who are totally weekend warriors and you'd never have a damn clue they were drag folk until they told you.

Also @Everyone, why are we equating drag to lying? That's edging pretty close to cissexism and transphobia.

I was giving the benefit of the doubt for equating it to lying. I was hoping it would go no further because that is a very stupid area to start treading in. (Stupid, being equating it to lying, not drag/trans/etc itself)  

[Kuroiban]

Orchidsandfractals

I would say a person in real life is less likely than a random on the internet to lie about being part of a culture. This is because when you are on the internet, it is easy to lie about who you are, as you are not talking to the person face to face, and you can also log off and take a pause if the lie is too great for you. That's unlike the real world.

This is a bit late to dip into the party on this but what the hell...

I've already had someone, seriously, tell me that they, themselves, were the God Chronos (spelling?). I've also met vampires, half-vampires, reincarnated aliens back when it was still novel and not a played out idea. I've even met, and this is my personal favorite, a werewolf cursed to human form.*

A word of sincere advice; assuming that someone is more likely to be honest to you because you're looking them in the eye is the cornerstone, the very keystone rather, of lying, con-artistry, and misinformation.

Which isn't to say that this makes everyone on the face of the earth a liar. What it does mean is that "IRL > OL" for the purposes of truth is very very naive and foolish.

*Seriously, that's the most brilliant lie I've ever heard for something inanely ridiculous. "I would totally show you that I'm a werewolf...but you know...I'm cursed to be a human forever....sorry!" That's some brilliant bullshit right there!  

[Aino Ailill]

Recursive Paradox

Um, have you met even a single AA (African Ancestry) POC (person of color) who prefers the n word to describe their race?

Cuz I sure as ******** haven't.

One black person once professed to prefer it in my hearing. However, I think it was hyperbole in this person's rant against political correctness.  

[whiporwill-o]

Recursive Paradox

Orchidsandfractals

whiporwill-o

i find this to be an opinion. it is just as easy to lie irl as it is online, example: plenty of men and women pass themselves off as the opposite gender in real life aka drag queens and kings.

and it may not even have anything to do with lying, simply misinformation, such as the countless people who claim to be of a specific religion but, for many reasons, simply can not be due to the traditions expectations of its followers.

It's pretty easy to spot a drag queen or king who is not planning on changing their gender. Or I should say, it's easier to spot them IRL than it is on the internet without photos or voices. It is possible my peer is misinformed, and she is misinformed a bit about(or at least as far as I know), what the g word means about her supposed culture.

I'm gonna call bullshit on this. There are drag queens and kings who are totally weekend warriors and you'd never have a damn clue they were drag folk until they told you.

Also @Everyone, why are we equating drag to lying? That's edging pretty close to cissexism and transphobia.

it wasn't meant as lying, at least it was not my intention, more like disguising oneself as not to appear as his or her birth gender. as already stated, it was a poor example on my part. my apologies, i meant no offense.  

[TeaDidikai]

Recursive Paradox

This argument hedges upon the false assumption that the word Rroma is a political correctness term and not the actual primary endonym of the culture.

This is pretty much what set my teeth itching in regards to her "friend".

Since being Rroma means participating in the culture and the culture is tied to the language and practices, it's almost impossible to be within the culture and not understand the linguistics involved in how the term is applied to us and it's source within the different dialects found within the culture itself.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

TeaDidikai

Aino Ailill

I'm afraid I don't see the insult here. Not knowing you outside of this thread, it is possible that you, a largely unknown entity, do not know about the culture you profess to participate in. Given that this person knows little to nothing of the Rroma culture, then Orchidsandfractals can not draw from your words proof either of your legitimacy or your lack there-of and, as such, can only label you as potentially knowledgeable.

Please, will you explain why this is offensive? I believe that whatever error you view Orchid to be making here in regard to you, I made prior to seeing evidence of your claim. I would like to know what I ought to be apologizing for.

For context:

Quote:

It is possible my Rroma friend knows nothing about her culture, just as it is possible you know nothing about your culture.

And that's what it is about. Context. She's making a claim- one based on her ignorance.

Let's put this into another less charged and more familiar context.

Person A: Wicca is an eclectic theology that is about worshiping nature.
Person B: Wicca is a fertility cult.
Person A: We're not a cult!

If person B suggests person A doesn't know what Wicca is, it's because of positive statements from person A. If person A suggests person B doesn't know what Wicca is, it's because they are ignorant of person B.

The implication that one is ignorant after having demonstrated to the contrary isn't acceptable, least of all from someone who has repeatedly indulged their privilege as an attempt to justify their position and undermine others.

First off, if person A is generally viewed as a reliable source on Wicca, without other evidence, Person B is generally not seen as an accurate source, and if it is unclear if person B is correct in general, due to just meeting person B, the burden of proof is upon person B to prove Wicca isn't what person A says it is. If Gerald Garner said that Wicca was a religion that worshiped fluffy bunnies and nature(Just as an example, and I am in no way claiming he did!), then his word would probably be a bit more accepted than a person who may know more, but has no means of proving their truth. My peer is likely not a reputable source for information about Rroma, and you are likely a much better source. However, without outside info, I would presume my peer is the more accurate source. Given that outside sources have been given, and not challenged by you, I will presume they are correct in terms of which term is used. My peer may not be a particular member of your culture, however, she could also be and simply have a very strange opinion of what her culture should be called. I don't know everything about her childhood, or Rroma culture for that matter, so I cannot be certain she was raised in a typical American cultural manner. From what I know, she is, which would make her not Rroma by your opinion.

I do not know other Rroma people than my peer, who you would not consider a valid source, to validate that you are Rroma, as you say is needed to be considered Rroma, nor do I know if you partipate in your culture beyond what you say you do. My peer claims to be a part of the Rroma culture... You do as well. Now, you have backed up your use of the word Rroma with outside sources, and do certainly appear more knowledgable, but I don't know if you are a member of your culture, by your own standard as you state. However, I will for the sake of this thread, agree that you are a Rroma person, but the point of said statement is to express doubt in knowing with certainity that you are a Rroma person. I am also very sorry that you have faced racism for being Domari in your personal life.(If you wish, could you clarify on how the word is used for each term. Such as, the culture vs an indivual person, or a part of the culture?) I will take your word that you were beaten by racists, as there are racists in the US, and they do beat people up. I was not aware the Aryan nation group was attempting to target Rroma now, though I do not actively follow them, as well, I don't exactly support their cause!

I only suggest that I have an opinion of if my friend is telling the truth about her supposed culture. I can certainly learn about my culture and express my opinion about it without being racist. Racism is the idea of thinking one culture is better than another. I am not saying that white culture or American culture is better than Rroma culture, or any such thing. I am saying I know a person who considers herself Rroma, who is as Rroma as I can verify, she prefers the g word to describe her culture. Now, you have made a very good case for showing that she is not actually Rroma, and I do not know if her supposed culture accepts her as such, or if she is simply basing it off her ancestry. If she is not actually Rroma, I am sorry for any misunderstandings based off that. If she should actually be Rroma, she has quite a strange stance as to call herself by a word that you claim is a slur, and that has been backed up as being a slur by outside sources. That doesn't mean she's not Rroma,as far as I know, it just means she's choosing to call herself by a strange name and finding her culture's name for themselves offensive, which, would be odd, but not impossible.

And yes, it is not right for your grandfather to wear the Tartan of a particular clan if he is not a member of said clan, and/or is not following said clan's rules about wearing a tartan kilt of the clan's pattern. If he was accepted into the clan, or the clan he was accepted into had different laws about wearing a kilt and tartan, then he has the right to wear tartan. Burbury sells tartan patterned clothes, which is offensive to many Scottish people. My particular clan has rules such as only the first born son of the chieftain may wear a tartan kilt. That rule is generally not seen as VIP, but as something one should do. Other clans may have different rules, and a military group may have different rules all together.

Privilege is a complex relationship for all minorites. Are you claiming Jews are privilaged and that the Rroma are not? Certainly, to most people I am a white American at first glance, but that does not mean I have never been subject to any forms of discrimination. (Though, I did not know about the law till 2008 in NJ, so I will retract my statement about the Rroma not being disciminated against in the US, within recent years. ) I am Jewish, I am Scottish, and I am female. All 3 of those groups have faced discimination over their histories. The Rroma and the Jews faced the Holocaust in the same era, though the Jewish people did get a country, and your people did not. To claim that it is impossible for me to see outright racism in many cases, because I am "privilaged", is quite incorrect. I may not be familiar with what is considered racist by a particular culture, though if I know something is racist, and is considered racist by a person of the culture, or it clearly shows a race as being inferior, as opposed to a misused name, or a viewpoint that may be considered racist in our modern era, but would have been considered PC in a different era, it is a little different.

If a slur is not meant as an insult, even if it is inaccurate, it's more a case of ignorance than of hate. Just my opinion though. Romanticism is a lot better than viewing a culture in a negative light. Judaism has both of those sterotypes existing, depending on the era. I'd rather be known as a smart frugal studious person than a stingy person who causes the Black plague and kills babies, if I am to be misrepresented, as nearly all cultures are to some degree.

I do not think my peer believes she has "converted" to Rroma, as she generally stated her being Rroma as based on the fact her ancestors were. As far as I know, she does not actively partipate in Rroma culture.

I list a site as an explantation of why it is mildly inaccurate to consider myself to be of Middle Eastern ancestry, as I am not, and why it is inaccurate to refer to me as such.

I call Getile fish a Jewish food because it is generally considered a food that is for Jewish people to eat on Jewish holidays.

I do not read Hebrew personally, but I also doubt you've had access to read a Torah in person. Maybe a transcription of a Torah, but that is generally reserved for adult males of the Jewish faith. It is a little hypocritical of yourself to claim that you know more about Judaism than a Jewish person, if you are not Jewish. However, it is your opinion and I will take it as such.

If you do not consider me Scottish till I get a visa or passport to Scotland, it shall be quite a while depending on who's doing them, if I can slip thru the cracks and get one at all. My family did not leave Scotland willingly. It was leave or die, and we chose to live. If we have the chance, we'd go back to Scotland. I have looked into getting visas, and it is very tricky as I could be arrested(For the crime of belonging to a banned clan) if I even got a visa, and there's a decent chance I could not get a visa.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

whiporwill-o

Orchidsandfractals

whiporwill-o

in lucid dreaming, one who is experienced in it can control certain aspects of their dreams (ie, the asking of certain questions). i have practiced lucid dreaming for a few years now, sometimes i can change a senario entirely, other times i can chose my own actions and successfully conquer a horde of zombies or not look at something that i know will be terrifying (i mostly use lucid dreaming when i am having a nightmare >.>).

perhaps if this being has contacted you in your dreams once before, she will do so again and maybe you can ask her the questions you seek answers for. there are certain types of incense that one can burn to induce prophetic dreaming, or at least that is what i have read (just don't fall asleep with it lit, fire is still fire however well contained).

Do you happen to know any particular types of incense that have worked for you for this purpose? And if she does contact me in a dream, I will try to ask her the questions!

let me check some of my books.....

after doing some cross-referencing and weeding out the more-difficult-to-find stuff, many people seem to agree that rose and/or jasmine are good scents for inducing such dreams. prophecy, i don't think, is what you'd call what you're wanting to do (poor wording on my part), but the incense may help, just the same, if for no other reason that to 'set the mood'.

Hmm, I do have rose essential oil already. I may try that.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

TeaDidikai

I am very iffy as to if my last meditation was accurate or not. I am new to meditation and prayer, hence why I am rather doubtful her name is Athena, given how poorly it was pronounced and was very hard to understand. The light color in my prayer was the same as in the dream, but MUCH fainter, which is somewhat consitant. I did not see the Goddess though.The reason I mention that when praying that that named popped into my head is so that if anyone knows of any similar Goddesses or any myths of Athena being a hawk goddess as opposed to an owl, is so that I may try to narrow it down. I will ask her for her name, and I will see what she says. I don't know much of the Goddesses out there, hence why I am asking here if anyone knows the name of a hawk goddess. Being new to prayer, I would expect there to be a few errors before my prayer becomes accurate.

I don't think how seeing a Goddess would be a sign to encourage me to be independant, as my mother is religious and I am not. By going back to religion, I relinquish a bit of my independance.

Recursive Paradox-

I have met several AA POC people who prefer the N word. It's not the most common form I would say, but out of the people I have met that prefer that term, they prefer it to African American. They basically explained it as European American sounds awkward, so if we're to describe our culture, it's the n word culture, as black is not an accurate term for our skin tone, and it is a word used by our people.(I use our and we in this case to indicate the people I have met, their stance).

I can think that my peer is Rroma as she has told me she is, but as you doubt here that she is, I will take both yours and TeaDidikai's opinions into consideration.

I have seen racism when it appears in my experiance. I am a Scottish Jew, a female. I have seen sexism, I have seen anti semitism, and I have seen anti Latino racism in person. I am not Latino. Your logic that I have no reason to see racism as I am privileged is inaccurate. I may not see all the instances, or have the viewpoint of an insider of a culture as to racism for one's culture, but I have seen racism as existing.

In regards to drag queens and kings. I don't think it was meant as offensive as drag is an art form. Trans is a gender choice(Not that it's exactly a choice, but a choice as in you can either deny a part of yourself or not). I haven't seen everyone naked, that is correct, but my statement was basically saying it's a lot easier to tell if someone is a drag queen or king if you've seen them in person, as opposed to an avatar and typing style on the internet. My cousin is a drag queen for the lulz at times, and he's pretty clearly male, even with makeup and a dress on. One of my dear friend's fathers is a drag king(Or he was one in the 1960s I should say.), and looking at the photos of him, there is no way anyone could mistake him for a woman. Same deal with all the people I know to be drag queens or kings IRL. That being said, in high school, my next door neighbor honestly thought I had a 25 inch long p***s because I made a joke with friends about it, and I didn't shave my armpits(for the record, I am a cisgendered woman who looks like a woman.). So, I could be quite wrong about mistakening people as drag queens or kings. Though, I hang out with quite a few men who wear makeup, so I may just have better than average genderdar. Or, my neighbor may have just had horrid genderdar. I am not talking about people who have been taking hormones, and who have had further sugery to look more male or female. I am talking about people who do drag as an art form. A vivid acting performance may pass for reality for a short amount of time, but it is not substained for a long amount of time. Drag is the acting of different genders. Transgender is feeling you are a different gender you are born in. One is a lie(an act), and the other is a different state of mind. However, I may be totally off on what drag is. As far as I know, it's meant for acting basically. Paintings are not reality, no matter how good they are. They are meant as a reflection of reality, not as reality itself. That's how I would consider drag, though not transgender. Then there are people who just like wearing women's clothes or men's clothes without being trans or trying to be drag.

@Everyone. I will try to be more trust worthy of people on the internet, esp. in this forum.  

[TeaDidikai]

Orchidsandfractals

First off, if person A is generally viewed as a reliable source on Wicca, without other evidence, Person B is generally not seen as an accurate source, and if it is unclear if person B is correct in general, due to just meeting person B, the burden of proof is upon person B to prove Wicca isn't what person A says it is.

Actually, it really isn't. See, not only is the Burden of Proof on the person making the initial claim, but you're appealing to popularity or personal authority depending on how you are justifying the term "reliable".

And for ******** sake- there is no evidence that person B should be seen as inaccurate.

Quote:

My peer is likely not a reputable source for information about Rroma, and you are likely a much better source. However, without outside info, I would presume my peer is the more accurate source. Given that outside sources have been given, and not challenged by you, I will presume they are correct in terms of which term is used. My peer may not be a particular member of your culture, however, she could also be and simply have a very strange opinion of what her culture should be called. I don't know everything about her childhood, or Rroma culture for that matter, so I cannot be certain she was raised in a typical American cultural manner. From what I know, she is, which would make her not Rroma by your opinion.

******** your racist bullshit.

This isn't my opinion. This is my culture and it's standards.

Quote:

I do not know other Rroma people than my peer, who you would not consider a valid source, to validate that you are Rroma, as you say is needed to be considered Rroma, nor do I know if you partipate in your culture beyond what you say you do. My peer claims to be a part of the Rroma culture... You do as well. Now, you have backed up your use of the word Rroma with outside sources, and do certainly appear more knowledgable, but I don't know if you are a member of your culture, by your own standard as you state. However, I will for the sake of this thread, agree that you are a Rroma person, but the point of said statement is to express doubt in knowing with certainity that you are a Rroma person. I am also very sorry that you have faced racism for being Domari in your personal life.(If you wish, could you clarify on how the word is used for each term. Such as, the culture vs an indivual person, or a part of the culture?) I will take your word that you were beaten by racists, as there are racists in the US, and they do beat people up. I was not aware the Aryan nation group was attempting to target Rroma now, though I do not actively follow them, as well, I don't exactly support their cause!

The Aryan Nation has always targeted anyone who fell outside of their concept of what is acceptable.

Quote:

I only suggest that I have an opinion of if my friend is telling the truth about her supposed culture. I can certainly learn about my culture and express my opinion about it without being racist.

But you have no right to express your opinion as being more valid than my experiences when it comes to my culture. That's why you're a racist. An unrepentant one since you seem to indulge it at every turn.

Quote:

Racism is the idea of thinking one culture is better than another.

You have an exceptionally shallow understanding of what Racism is.

Racism is about entitlement and unearned privilege when applied to what used to be considered race, now of which hinges more on ethnicity or physical traits.

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If she is not actually Rroma, I am sorry for any misunderstandings based off that. If she should actually be Rroma, she has quite a strange stance as to call herself by a word that you claim is a slur, and that has been backed up as being a slur by outside sources. That doesn't mean she's not Rroma,as far as I know, it just means she's choosing to call herself by a strange name and finding her culture's name for themselves offensive, which, would be odd, but not impossible.

You're not getting this.

Linguistically it isn't possible for her to be Rroma while denying her own words.

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And yes, it is not right for your grandfather to wear the Tartan of a particular clan if he is not a member of said clan, and/or is not following said clan's rules about wearing a tartan kilt of the clan's pattern. If he was accepted into the clan, or the clan he was accepted into had different laws about wearing a kilt and tartan, then he has the right to wear tartan.

So you're as ignorant about the Scots as you are about the Rroma. Got it.

My Grandfather served in the Royal Highland Regiment. He bled along with his fellow soliders and his service earned him the right to wear his tartan. But then, if you had any solid understanding of the Scots, you'd be well aware that tartans aren't solely for familial affiliations. You would have also been aware that there are different standards for parent tartans verses the patterns that grew within the clans.

If you do nothing else- would you ******** stop presenting your narrow understandings as universal truth?

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Privilege is a complex relationship for all minorites. Are you claiming Jews are privilaged and that the Rroma are not? Certainly, to most people I am a white American at first glance, but that does not mean I have never been subject to any forms of discrimination. (Though, I did not know about the law till 2008 in NJ, so I will retract my statement about the Rroma not being disciminated against in the US, within recent years. ) I am Jewish, I am Scottish, and I am female. All 3 of those groups have faced discimination over their histories. The Rroma and the Jews faced the Holocaust in the same era,

BULLSHIT. The Laws of Racial Purity that targeted the Rroma existed before they targeted the Jews.

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though the Jewish people did get a country, and your people did not.

You're suddenly claiming I'm Sinti now? WTF? For someone who gets pissed when people address you in Yiddish, to do that to make that claim about another culture is pretty arrogant don't you think?

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To claim that it is impossible for me to see outright racism in many cases, because I am "privilaged", is quite incorrect.

Guess it's a good thing I am claiming you're a privileged racist because of your actions and not because it is "impossible" for you to see it.

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I may not be familiar with what is considered racist by a particular culture, though if I know something is racist, and is considered racist by a person of the culture, or it clearly shows a race as being inferior, as opposed to a misused name, or a viewpoint that may be considered racist in our modern era, but would have been considered PC in a different era, it is a little different.

All of which is still being based on your flawed concept of what racism is.

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If a slur is not meant as an insult, even if it is inaccurate, it's more a case of ignorance than of hate. Just my opinion though. Romanticism is a lot better than viewing a culture in a negative light.

******** that s**t.

Do you not understand that the Romanticism that is projected onto people creates false standards and harms the culture? You don't think that's negative.

Allow me to spell this out for you. I suck a** when it comes to activism. The only thing I have ever managed to successfully pull off is a bit of fund raising for the victims of the Czech governments Eugenics program.

The number of people who turned me away because they didn't understand that we are human beings and not flavor characters for D&D is insulting at best.

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Judaism has both of those sterotypes existing, depending on the era. I'd rather be known as a smart frugal studious person than a stingy person who causes the Black plague and kills babies, if I am to be misrepresented, as nearly all cultures are to some degree.

That's ******** up. Myself, I would rather be thought of as a person.

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I list a site as an explantation of why it is mildly inaccurate to consider myself to be of Middle Eastern ancestry, as I am not, and why it is inaccurate to refer to me as such.

And I pointed out that your site doesn't completely support your position and you are intentionally ignoring that fact.

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I call Getile fish a Jewish food because it is generally considered a food that is for Jewish people to eat on Jewish holidays.

Actually, you called it Jewish.

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I do not read Hebrew personally, but I also doubt you've had access to read a Torah in person. Maybe a transcription of a Torah, but that is generally reserved for adult males of the Jewish faith. It is a little hypocritical of yourself to claim that you know more about Judaism than a Jewish person, if you are not Jewish. However, it is your opinion and I will take it as such.

Actually, I'm commenting on the quality of my education. And it's not hypocritical if I don't have a double standard since- if you were non-Rroma and actually were as educated as I am.

My issue with you is your ignorance, not your ethnicity. Stop projecting your racism. It's insulting.

As for it being reserved- having access to Higher Education helps- as does having a friend who is a Rabbi to one of the local temples.

The coolest thing was being able to see some of the really ancient doctuments- like the ones that use a standin for the tetragramaton in order to avoid accidental utterance during it's reading.

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If you do not consider me Scottish till I get a visa or passport to Scotland, it shall be quite a while depending on who's doing them, if I can slip thru the cracks and get one at all.

Not a Visa. A document that states Citizenship.

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My family did not leave Scotland willingly. It was leave or die, and we chose to live. If we have the chance, we'd go back to Scotland. I have looked into getting visas, and it is very tricky as I could be arrested(For the crime of belonging to a banned clan) if I even got a visa, and there's a decent chance I could not get a visa.

Hi. You're an American with an unfounded sense of entitlement.

I suggest you spend time talking to Celeblin. She has a similar family history but isn't indulging privilege by claiming to be something she isn't. She's also more patient than I am.