Draconic Ritual Q&A ^.=.^

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Dori-Ryuu

LOL those are college books used in collegiate courses in celtic and indo-european studies. The courses focus on using religious lore, linguistics, historical archeology, and known knowledge of the culture to piece together the cultural practices.

So, no, you don't know what a source text is then?
We are not saying those books are non-credible. We are simply saying they are not considered source texts.

Quote:

The books do touch on the fact that the Druid's verbally passed down information (much like a family passed on tradtion, btw) but they also get into using information recorded from visiting cultures and studies of landmarks, pottery, etc to make scientific notations on how things where. They do note that the recorded information isn't totally accurate.

Which is good.
Still doesn't make them a source text.

Primary source texts (as I understand; other folks feel free to jump in and refine this as needed) are usually the documents containing the lore and myths of a given culture, or works written by individuals who have/had first hand experience on a given topic. For example, Crowley's books are a source text for Thelema. Books written about his books are usually considered secondary or tertiary.

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The notion that Rhiannon is widely accepted as fact that she's a goddess of horses, but it isn't written down in a Druid book.

So, a Druid book > the linguistics of the culture?
Hm.

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It's been passed down through the ages, noted by other cultures and found on archeological pieces.

Really? Noted by other cultures?
Do any other Heathens recall there being a Rhiannon in our pantheon?

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Or that Bel is a fire/solar deity, again isn't in a book written down by the druid's, but accepted as a passed down fact.

Passed down as fact? Really? Not strongly supported speculation?

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This isnt just specific to the european cultures, we see that in Myan and Aztec cultures as well. We don't have more than what they left behind to see what the religion and culture really was.

And what generally is used to fill in gaps are highly educated guesses.  

[Lance Kibagari]

Violet Song jat Shariff

Quote:

It's been passed down through the ages, noted by other cultures and found on archeological pieces.

Really? Noted by other cultures?
Do any other Heathens recall there being a Rhiannon in our pantheon?

That's a big N-O, there, good buddy.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

CuAnnan

I had another rather large, long post attempting to reason with this person.
But I will trust to you, the reader, to recognise him for what he is and to, likewise, refrain from engaging with him without first raising heavy shields and stripping every ounce of emotion from your post.
Whether a troll or a parasite, don't feed him.

Noted.

Goodnight all.  

[X C L S I O R]

Molly Mollusca

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What is neo wiccan dragon summoning? And why is it so bad that is might be confused with what you do?

before i get ripped on for this too, ill reiterate, this is what it is called here.

Some wiccans have a ritual, if you can call it that, to "summon" a dragon into our plane to gain its power. IF someone is even able to accomplish such a thing, i feel, would be more of an enslavement against that particular beings will. It is not inviting one that you have gained a long standing relationship with etc, and offering an exchange of energies and offerings in return.

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You lied here... You did not do your best to answer questions. You straight went into the "oh woe is me, I'm persecuted" mode. And the "I'm being questioned! Oh no, you must be children! Or Christians!"thing? What is that?

If you were truly secure about your religion and practice, these sort of questions would not be a problem for you. You would not have felt attacked by them. 3nodding

I feel like a broken record now, because you guys continue with the same posts without seeming to even glance my responses.

but i dont think that, "Then why haven't you been reduced to coke upon the floor? " is a feasible question.

And i AGAIN(heres that broken record) i dont feel threatened or attacked, i am responding with the same enthusiasm that is getting posted to me lol, doesnt mean i am angry or feeling attacked.

 

[X C L S I O R]

CuAnnan

I had another rather large, long post attempting to reason with this person.
But I will trust to you, the reader, to recognise him for what he is and to, likewise, refrain from engaging with him without first raising heavy shields and stripping every ounce of emotion from your post.
Whether a troll or a parasite, don't feed him.

unless i am mistaken, this is my first thread period on gaia in about 4 years, and before i had a different name, so how exactly did we speak?

and i get called a parasite for returning posts that are directed at me? interesting...

im a parasite for defending what i believe in? ...wait a minute, this isnt even about my belief this is a flame war about the spelling and use of the word magick, now that is sad. Perhaps if you people would actually listen and allow me to explain a scrap of what i believe in you may think differently about me, but meah, i dont need the admiration of computer avatars, i saw where this went, nowhere be circles.  

[CuAnnan]

Gan aon mothúcháine, gan aon beagáinte de mo chroí ná an leaghas 'tá ann:

Dori-Ryuu

before i get ripped on for this too, ill reiterate, this is what it is called here.

By who?

Dori-Ryuu

Some wiccans have a ritual, if you can call it that, to "summon" a dragon into our plane to gain its power.

That is not compatible with Wicca.
Anyone who does this is not Wiccan, end of story.
I am arguing by the definition.

Dori-Ryuu

It is not inviting one that you have gained a long standing relationship with etc, and offering an exchange of energies and offerings in return.

You have nothing of worth to offer a dragon.

Dori-Ryuu

I feel like a broken record now, because you guys continue with the same posts without seeming to even glance my responses.

That's because you speak much while saying nothing.
Where does your tradition come from?

Dori-Ryuu

but i dont think that, "Then why haven't you been reduced to coke upon the floor? " is a feasible question.

I do.
If you summon up or deal with dragons at all, why have they not incinerated you?
I have looked at an awful lot of classical literature on dragons. None of them have a pleasant outlook on mankind. They eat us not because we taste good or because we satisfy their hunger but because we irritate them.
You are not humble.
You are not particularly intelligent.
You are not wise.
You are not gracious.
Why have the dragons you deal with not incinerated you to a pile of ash?  

[X C L S I O R]

Wiccans i have spoken to. Pretty much it, and not all, but a few.

There is a lot that you can offer dragons, and if you dont know that, then i have nothing much more to say about this.


My grandfather taught me while growing up. I went with him to attend various rituals that he performed and was told stories of lore as a child. Which was taught in more detail as i got older. He came over from the philippines and was taught by his father who was taught by his father and so on. My grandfather told me that it had originally came from a northern european belief that stemmed from lebanon after mesopotamia and was brought there during one of the many raids that plagued the island

and as a matter of fact i have one of my great grandfathers grimoire's as well that my grandfather gave to me before he passed.

And i dont summon dragons. I have my guardians and guides. And my deities (or what would be considered as such) that i pay homage to and so on. My grandfather always told me, that when i performed one of our rituals, which i wont name, a guardian who was soul bound to me would choose me to guard and guide me and be with me always. And I do. I see her and commune with her daily. She is my most loyal friend. Just because christian crusaders wanted to demean the dragon and portray them as evil beasts and satanic counterparts doesnt mean they despise the human race and eat them because they irritate them. My guardian is very patient with me, and i have tried her patience in the past and have gotten punished for it. I actually paid a lot in my life for some of the things i had done or taken advantage of. And i have met guides and guardians who dont have nearly as much patience as her. But I know how to conduct myself when communing with them. and have the utmost respect for my guardians and their kin. and a dragon knows this. They know whether you are half hearted or not.  

[Molly Mollusca]

Dori-Ryuu

before i get ripped on for this too, ill reiterate, this is what it is called here.

Some wiccans have a ritual, if you can call it that, to "summon" a dragon into our plane to gain its power. IF someone is even able to accomplish such a thing, i feel, would be more of an enslavement against that particular beings will. It is not inviting one that you have gained a long standing relationship with etc, and offering an exchange of energies and offerings in return.

Ripped on for? You automatically assume my question is an hostile one? Weird... Also... Are you sure those wiccan you mention are actually wiccans? It sounds like it is not something a fertility cult would do.

Dori-Ryuu

I feel like a broken record now, because you guys continue with the same posts without seeming to even glance my responses.

but i dont think that, "Then why haven't you been reduced to coke upon the floor? " is a feasible question.

Really? Shall we look at what has been said?

Dori-Ryuu

TeaDidikai

Then why haven't you been reduced to coke upon the floor?

wow uncalled for. [...]
two, i stated the origin of my tradition above, please read before making your decision to write half whit comments, mr. i love jesus. kthnx

First off, you automatically assumed it was an hostile comment. You could have brushed it off with a "Why would you think my practice would leave me as a pile of dust?". Which would have opened a discussion. But instead you straight went for the "mr. I love Jesus" comment.

And that left you with not an discussion about your faith and practice, but with a discussion on "whit" and "magick" and how it is spelled. When you were being challenged about your 17 year of practice, you also automatically assumed it was hostile. See?

Dori-Ryuu

but regardless, i can see you are all a bunch of children with nothing better to do with their lives then rip apart something small. call me 17? lmao ok. ill let you think that.

-shrugs- guess that is neither here nor there either. oh well, doesnt matter, guess im out of this forum, ill let you continue your mediocre lives of secluded ignorance. so wound up over nothing, a spelling that can go multiple ways? i dont need to prove anything to anyone. this thread will def. be copied and posted on the other pagan sites my wife and i belong to and we can continue to feel the humor. byeas =)

How are we to respond to that? You begin a Q&A thread. You assume you are an authority on this subject. We are right to question your authority. (the 17 years of practice) That does not make us children.

If you were secure in your belief and practice you would not have called us children for challenging your authority.

The last bit of that post should make you ashamed by the way. It is a "I cannot take the heat, okaythxbye!" reaction. And what is that about copying? Is that a threat? How weird that you would want other people to see you mayorly fail at a Q&A thread.  

[CuAnnan]

Dori-Ryuu

Wiccans i have spoken to. Pretty much it, and not all, but a few.

The people you have spoken to were not Wiccan.

Dori-Ryuu

There is a lot that you can offer dragons, and if you dont know that, then i have nothing much more to say about this.

The dragons I spoke and dealt with were interested in Integrity, Honour and Discipline.
You have shown a stark absence of even the fundament of these things.
Perhaps you will be so good as to answer the initial question:
What is it that you offer them?

Dori-Ryuu

and as a matter of fact i have one of my great grandfathers grimoire's as well that my grandfather gave to me before he passed.

Scan and post pictures please.
From a semi decent scan, we can determine the quality (and therefore age) of the paper.

Dori-Ryuu

My grandfather always told me, that when i performed one of our rituals, which i wont name, a guardian who was soul bound to me would choose me to guard and guide me and be with me always. And I do. I see her and commune with her daily. She is my most loyal friend.

I've heard this kind of thing a thousand times before from a thousand other people pretending to know what they're doing.
Perhaps you are the one. The one person who is not lying through their teeth.
However, if you are not, you will not last beyond this thread.
Because you will be caught out, if you are not, you will be proven fraudulent.

Dori-Ryuu

Just because christian crusaders wanted to demean the dragon and portray them as evil beasts and satanic counterparts doesnt mean they despise the human race and eat them because they irritate them.

I was refferring to the pre-christian depiction of them, not the christian.
Save those that are pact-bound to serve a specific region, they are monsters.
Intelligent monsters.
Ambivalent monsters.
But monsters.

Dori-Ryuu

and a dragon knows this. They know whether you are half hearted or not.

No. They don't.
Dragons, like all beings, can be tricked, fooled or conned.
I am not expecting you to accept this. I am dismissing your nonsense out of hand so that anyone who reads this doesn't accept your position.
I don't truck with psy vamps.
I think they're lazy, self-entitled thieves for the most part.  

[CuAnnan]

Molly Mollusca

The last bit of that post should make you ashamed by the way. It is a "I cannot take the heat, okaythxbye!" reaction. And what is that about copying? Is that a threat? How weird that you would want other people to see you mayorly fail at a Q&A thread.

This.  

[Molly Mollusca]

Cu, what about chinese dragons, those are generally considered beneficial right?  

[CuAnnan]

Molly Mollusca

Cu, what about chinese dragons, those are generally considered beneficial right?

Not really.
They are representative of the forces of nature.
Nature is not beneficial.
They also eat and terrorise villages.
They also bind themselves in pact to serve certain peoples.
They are, also, not dragons. They are ryojo.... I think that's the correct spelling. Cognate of ryu.
They are just similar enough in theme to be considered the same by some.  

[Molly Mollusca]

So the only time there is such a thing as a luck dragon it would be in "Never ending story"? xd  

[X C L S I O R]

well in all honesty. you nor anyone else here, know me. you dont know who i am, or what i do. You know nothing of my discipline honor or the like. What it boils down to, is this is a forum, on a website, on a computer. You say im feeling threatened and taking things the wrong way? ok then. i feel people are entitled to question anyone and be skeptical on what they know or think they know. And thats fine. I have had people question me a lot in the past. But it never gets this out of hand. why? because with all this talk of MY maturity level. None here wants to step back and look at their own. They would rather be elitists who believe they know and own the world. While in the past those who question me, were genuinely curious and went about it in a mature way. You say i could of taken it with a grain of salt? while i say that she could take her own advice and be a bit humble herself in her questioning. Perhaps that may of made this go a different way as well.

Id be more then happy to scan a picture and post it, that is, if i am still here in the morning. Seeing as i would have to drive to storage to get it, i just moved you see after getting a management position at a hotel. And before this gets ripped apart too, i only state it to give a reason to your request.

again i never once said i was a master of my path. i even posted i had more then a lifetimes worth to learn(if you see the first post). But that doesnt change the fact im proud that i have what i have and love to discuss paganism with like-minded individuals.

I do believe, despite the fun little banter and arguing, that i have not put myself out there as a idiotic liar, or fake, when any open eyed person can see that in this little batting back and forth of words, ive still stayed quite on point and have made solid points that couldnt come from someone who is here to just eat the minds of people.

The fact that you can give me some sort of benefit of the doubt plays to your character. And again, despite your insult to my intelligence and integrity, i can say that i respect you for that. Perhaps you said it as sarcasm? but ill choose not to look at it that way.  

[X C L S I O R]

CuAnnan

Molly Mollusca

Cu, what about chinese dragons, those are generally considered beneficial right?

Not really.
They are representative of the forces of nature.
Nature is not beneficial.
They also eat and terrorise villages.
They also bind themselves in pact to serve certain peoples.
They are, also, not dragons. They are ryojo.... I think that's the correct spelling. Cognate of ryu.
They are just similar enough in theme to be considered the same by some.

and actually the asias used dragons as guardians to ward off evil spirits, AND yes were used to depict good luck, all depends on where you look. Stories are dependent on the people telling them, if we all died off, and another intelligent race began to roam the earth, you think they would say we were all good or all bad? i believe they would have mixed stories. That is like them seeing an old newspaper on jeffery dahlmer and assume we are all cannabilistic murderers.