Controlling the spirits: Enslavement?

[CuAnnan]

Fiddlers Green

For my part, I Know it was hardwired into the creation of the Cosmos.

I, likewise, Know this. I acknowledge that Right and Wrong are Objective. However, I do have to admit that my subjective understanding of them is not. I am the subject, they are my understandings. They may be exactly the same as the Objective ones, but I doubt it.

Fiddlers Green

How do y'all feel about binding the soul of a defeated foe as punishment for whatever you killed them for?

Would depend on the terms of the binding.

Fiddlers Green

what if you don't enslave them, what if you just force them to exist in a urinal cake in a truck-stop somewhere?

I like that.

Fiddlers Green

Is this better or worse than doing the same thing to a spirit that is not human in origin?

Depends on the cognisance of the entity in question.

Fiddlers Green

Can a thoughtform ever really be free?

No. They are dependent on human thought for their existence.

Fiddlers Green

In creating a thoughtform, are you not giving birth to a slave?

It is getting its existence at the price of servitude. Depending on how cognisant it is, it may not constitute a slave any more than a pet dog does.

Fiddlers Green

Forming it from your own vis, does this make it okay to keep it as property?

I would never have kept them as property. I kept them around as long as they were willing to be or until I could home them, asking no more of them than they continue to exist and do nothing other than exist (ie, no picking on the neighbourhood children or unsuspsectings who open themselves to whatever happens to be passing by).  

[Fiddlers Green]

Gho the Girl

In my practice, my thoughtforms are soul infused extensions of myself. We share the same soulstuff, although they may be of a different character. If a thoughtform I know desired to be free of me, and it seems that one of the ones I used to know seems to be acting in this manner, I'd let it go. But when you create a thoughtform, one usually creates it with a desire to serve, so if the servitude is chosen, without punishment or requirement for it to stay, is it really slavery?

That is the crux isn't it?
It's not exactly breeding a slave race... and it's not exactly creating free form, unbound intelligences.
I'm really iffy on the whole thing.
Pre-programing something to serve sounds dangerous, but then again, I am apt to over-react.

CuAnnan

It is getting its existence at the price of servitude. Depending on how cognisant it is, it may not constitute a slave any more than a pet dog does.

Would you accept that deal?  

[TheDisreputableDog]

Fiddlers Green

Gho the Girl

In my practice, my thoughtforms are soul infused extensions of myself. We share the same soulstuff, although they may be of a different character. If a thoughtform I know desired to be free of me, and it seems that one of the ones I used to know seems to be acting in this manner, I'd let it go. But when you create a thoughtform, one usually creates it with a desire to serve, so if the servitude is chosen, without punishment or requirement for it to stay, is it really slavery?

That is the crux isn't it?
It's not exactly breeding a slave race... and it's not exactly creating free form, unbound intelligences.
I'm really iffy on the whole thing.
Pre-programing something to serve sounds dangerous, but then again, I am apt to over-react.

God, I hate this argument. I have to deal with it all the time in my classes. Is it really a free choice to take an action that conforms to the culture's dominant view of what action you should take? Can you freely choose to be a sex worker if the circumstances of your life leave few other options open to you? Can you freely choose to wear makeup if your culture has conditioned you to enjoy doing so and enjoy the positive feedback society gives you? Some feminist writers on this subject tend to forget that feminism has cultures too that can be just as conditioning as the mainstream cultures they attempt to criticize.

Sometimes I feel like consent has to hold if nothing else or the whole house of cards comes apart and we're all doomed to an eternity of postmodern hamster wheels.  

[TeaDidikai]

Gho the Girl

In my practice, my thoughtforms are soul infused extensions of myself. We share the same soulstuff, although they may be of a different character.

YHVH has those things too. ninja  

[Fiddlers Green]

TheDisreputableDog

Fiddlers Green

Gho the Girl

In my practice, my thoughtforms are soul infused extensions of myself. We share the same soulstuff, although they may be of a different character. If a thoughtform I know desired to be free of me, and it seems that one of the ones I used to know seems to be acting in this manner, I'd let it go. But when you create a thoughtform, one usually creates it with a desire to serve, so if the servitude is chosen, without punishment or requirement for it to stay, is it really slavery?

That is the crux isn't it?
It's not exactly breeding a slave race... and it's not exactly creating free form, unbound intelligences.
I'm really iffy on the whole thing.
Pre-programing something to serve sounds dangerous, but then again, I am apt to over-react.

God, I hate this argument. I have to deal with it all the time in my classes. Is it really a free choice to take an action that conforms to the culture's dominant view of what action you should take? Can you freely choose to be a sex worker if the circumstances of your life leave few other options open to you? Can you freely choose to wear makeup if your culture has conditioned you to enjoy doing so and enjoy the positive feedback society gives you? Some feminist writers on this subject tend to forget that feminism has cultures too that can be just as conditioning as the mainstream cultures they attempt to criticize.

Sometimes I feel like consent has to hold if nothing else or the whole house of cards comes apart and we're all doomed to an eternity of postmodern hamster wheels.

You see, with thought-forms, it gets even more complicated...
If you create this Homunculus to serve you, it's like creating a person with two arms and two legs, no tail.
If you do not create it with the ability to desire freedom, then, usually, it can't.
It would be like that human we made having a tail, it goes against the design, it doesn't happen.
If the thought form was not created with a desire for freedom, or even the capacity for a desire for freedom, then it can't deny consent to serve. At least, it can't not consent to serve anymore than a human can breather water and breed with salamanders.

Horrible sticky wicket here. One of the reasons this matter holds my attention.  

[Deoridhe]

saint dreya

CuAnnan

Frankly, unless you can put it down, don't summon it up.

that's a pretty good general rule about much of many things. you and Deo have both touched on that in regards to putting your name in ogam/runic, respectively.

I will say that when I was but a wee Deo, I put my true-name in runic form. I still don't know completely what I've bound myself to with that, but it should be interesting.

Damn me and my accepting things without reading the fine print. sweatdrop  

[Recursive Paradox]

Deoridhe

saint dreya

CuAnnan

Frankly, unless you can put it down, don't summon it up.

that's a pretty good general rule about much of many things. you and Deo have both touched on that in regards to putting your name in ogam/runic, respectively.

I will say that when I was but a wee Deo, I put my true-name in runic form. I still don't know completely what I've bound myself to with that, but it should be interesting.

Damn me and my accepting things without reading the fine print. sweatdrop

gonk Now you have me worried!  

[Deoridhe]

Recursive Paradox

Deoridhe

saint dreya

CuAnnan

Frankly, unless you can put it down, don't summon it up.

that's a pretty good general rule about much of many things. you and Deo have both touched on that in regards to putting your name in ogam/runic, respectively.

I will say that when I was but a wee Deo, I put my true-name in runic form. I still don't know completely what I've bound myself to with that, but it should be interesting.

Damn me and my accepting things without reading the fine print. sweatdrop

gonk Now you have me worried!

*whistles*  

[xXxBerzerkerxXx]

I've never had the need to summon any spirits, my faith never required me to do so.  

[Gho the Girl]

TeaDidikai

Gho the Girl

In my practice, my thoughtforms are soul infused extensions of myself. We share the same soulstuff, although they may be of a different character.

YHVH has those things too. ninja

Really? surprised Please tell me more!  

[TeaDidikai]

Gho the Girl

TeaDidikai

Gho the Girl

In my practice, my thoughtforms are soul infused extensions of myself. We share the same soulstuff, although they may be of a different character.

YHVH has those things too. ninja

Really? surprised Please tell me more!

Angels. Basically shards of YHVH's will empowered with autonomous action under direct orders from their creator. wink