Abortion Made Simple

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

How about we stop knocking on zz for his tone and focus more on the point of his words. I found nothing wrong with what he said. Let's please stay on topic.  

[Ixor Firebadger]

I do apologize for my anger. I'm just staying away from this thread form here on.  

[Xandris]

Anything that's held too rigidly to allow any flexibility is inherently fragile. When the tempest comes, instead of riding with it, that inflexible thing is going to stand firm, and get chipped at, made even more fragile and acquire flaws. Or, the storm will simply be too strong and rip that thing away at the roots. Like a tall building that doesn't gently move in the wind, or tree branches that don't shake, or a belief structure that has no room to move. Just because I take the situation into consideration doesn't mean that my beliefs are held any less dear, or mean anything less to me, than anyone else's.

This post doesn't apply just to zz, but to everyone whose ideals in the conservative/liberal spectrum don't quite match up with my own.

zz1000zz

It may not have been your intention, but it is what you conveyed.

Perhaps you should just concentrate on what has been said rather than stretching it into something that wasn't meant, or even considered until you brought it up in your post. We all seem to be setting each other on edge by reading more into the message than what was actually written.  

[Matt Pniewski]

Oh, this is a fine topic for the return of my arrogant self.....

The sad thing about this issue is that, well, Abortions have been on the downfall, and with the continuation of better education and better birth control practices, Abortion will be a thing of the past eventually anyway. Late Term and Partial Birth abortions are already on the way out, very clearly so.

So instead of taking it to the streets, protesting outside of clinics, and trying to get legislation, how about the prolife JOINS the prochoice crowd in promoting safe sex practices?

Oh, and anyone who suggests adoption should be willing to adopt a child. The biggest argument the prochoice crowd has against adoption is our over crowded foster homes, and adoption agencies that act like for-profit ventures (they aren't but sometimes seem to) so let's get rid of the anti adoption argument by adopting us some kids. Really, it gets on my nerves when I hear adoption as an abortion alternative from people who would never adopt a child.  

[Jessy_4 26 2008]

Xandris

The Lady Who Knows

I also REALLY like how NO ONE disputes why children who are products of incest are an allowed restriction.

Honestly, I think that if someone is silly enough to sleep with a relative and not take precautions, that's their own fault.

Although... murder is a sin... except in self-defense. Theft is a sin... but what if you and your family are starving? There are times in this world where what's sinful crosses the line of what's the right thing to do.

Except often incest is the result of child molestation by a parent or uncle/aunt, if someone electively does so, then you're right, it is silly, but those who would choose to do so are (as far as the law knows) few and far between.

I'll answer that question through PM since it would be quite off topic in this thread.  

[Jessy_4 26 2008]

Matt Pniewski

Oh, this is a fine topic for the return of my arrogant self.....

The sad thing about this issue is that, well, Abortions have been on the downfall, and with the continuation of better education and better birth control practices, Abortion will be a thing of the past eventually anyway. Late Term and Partial Birth abortions are already on the way out, very clearly so.

So instead of taking it to the streets, protesting outside of clinics, and trying to get legislation, how about the prolife JOINS the prochoice crowd in promoting safe sex practices?

Oh, and anyone who suggests adoption should be willing to adopt a child. The biggest argument the prochoice crowd has against adoption is our over crowded foster homes, and adoption agencies that act like for-profit ventures (they aren't but sometimes seem to) so let's get rid of the anti adoption argument by adopting us some kids. Really, it gets on my nerves when I hear adoption as an abortion alternative from people who would never adopt a child.

You're quite right! Anyone who says you should put children up for adoption SHOULD adopt. That's why I'm adopting, there are far too many children in the system, they need parents too. I'm going to be adopting as many as child services will allow, it usually takes a year for the first, a couple for the second, and just gets increasingly difficult the more you adopt, they need to make sure they'll all be well cared for after all!

The difficulty in getting children adopted is the background screening, they NEED to make sure they aren't sending these kids to abusers, ****** (not *****, ped is latin for foot not child, it is an often misspelled word I've found), and unclean homes. You are monitored by child services for a year, sometimes more, to ensure the child is safe.  

[Jessy_4 26 2008]

Fushigi na Butterfly

The only reason I don't mention incest as an exception is because, like zz said, the effects of incest are exaggerated, and it's not really traumatizing to anyone besides, maybe, the family members of the couple, and their friends. confused

I'm not really considering it an exception either, sort of dug around for my reasons of why that was an exception and all of them were personal and not objective. I mentioned incest because my biological grandfather (whom I never knew, but sadly have learned much of) did such things, terrible ><.

Some of the effects are exaggerated and they do take a couple generations to show up, but some aren't. The chances of down syndrome do raise, any recessive traits in the family are amplified because both parents would carry them (though some non-related couples carry both as well, it's just not as much of a FOR SURE thing as with siblings, or parent/child, because they don't share DNA alleles like the related couples would). There are also physical effects, such as bone deformities or cleft pallet. I think one of the major things that threw incest out of the royal families was the higher chance of infertility though.  

[Xandris]

Matt Pniewski

Oh, and anyone who suggests adoption should be willing to adopt a child. The biggest argument the prochoice crowd has against adoption is our over crowded foster homes, and adoption agencies that act like for-profit ventures (they aren't but sometimes seem to) so let's get rid of the anti adoption argument by adopting us some kids. Really, it gets on my nerves when I hear adoption as an abortion alternative from people who would never adopt a child.

With so many places overcrowded and people pumping more children into the system like unwanted puppies, I really think that the COST to adopt a child should be greatly reduced. A nice family who passed the screenings, the background checks, agreed to have their home monitored, but were lower-middle class keep getting pushed to the side because they can't AFFORD these kids. It's more than a little sad.

Jessy_4 26 2008

Except often incest is the result of child molestation by a parent or uncle/aunt, if someone electively does so, then you're right, it is silly, but those who would choose to do so are (as far as the law knows) few and far between.

Then it's rape and a whole different ball game. smile  

[Matt Pniewski]

Jessy_4 26 2008

Matt Pniewski

Oh, this is a fine topic for the return of my arrogant self.....

The sad thing about this issue is that, well, Abortions have been on the downfall, and with the continuation of better education and better birth control practices, Abortion will be a thing of the past eventually anyway. Late Term and Partial Birth abortions are already on the way out, very clearly so.

So instead of taking it to the streets, protesting outside of clinics, and trying to get legislation, how about the prolife JOINS the prochoice crowd in promoting safe sex practices?

Oh, and anyone who suggests adoption should be willing to adopt a child. The biggest argument the prochoice crowd has against adoption is our over crowded foster homes, and adoption agencies that act like for-profit ventures (they aren't but sometimes seem to) so let's get rid of the anti adoption argument by adopting us some kids. Really, it gets on my nerves when I hear adoption as an abortion alternative from people who would never adopt a child.

You're quite right! Anyone who says you should put children up for adoption SHOULD adopt. That's why I'm adopting, there are far too many children in the system, they need parents too. I'm going to be adopting as many as child services will allow, it usually takes a year for the first, a couple for the second, and just gets increasingly difficult the more you adopt, they need to make sure they'll all be well cared for after all!

The difficulty in getting children adopted is the background screening, they NEED to make sure they aren't sending these kids to abusers, ****** (not *****, ped is latin for foot not child, it is an often misspelled word I've found), and unclean homes. You are monitored by child services for a year, sometimes more, to ensure the child is safe.

To have a kid, you just need to have sex....

Adoption makes the hard job of raising a family even harder. Screenings are important. Background checks are important. But when my Aunt tried to adopt, they needed to make sure she was PHYSICALLY capable of handling a kid. Because she's in a wheelchair.

So, even potentially good parents are shut out. Homosexuals, single parents, and even the handicapped have an extra layers of red tape to go through. It's enough to make me vomit. These kids don't have homes as it is, I think even if these parties aren't perfect, its better than they got.

Ironically (and I don't want to sound like I am critical of people adopting from other countries.... We are overcrowded here, there, and everywhere) it's easier to spend a few thousand, go to China to adopt, and you won't have all those problems. That's what my aunt Sheila did.  

[Jessy_4 26 2008]

Matt Pniewski

Jessy_4 26 2008

Matt Pniewski

Oh, this is a fine topic for the return of my arrogant self.....

The sad thing about this issue is that, well, Abortions have been on the downfall, and with the continuation of better education and better birth control practices, Abortion will be a thing of the past eventually anyway. Late Term and Partial Birth abortions are already on the way out, very clearly so.

So instead of taking it to the streets, protesting outside of clinics, and trying to get legislation, how about the prolife JOINS the prochoice crowd in promoting safe sex practices?

Oh, and anyone who suggests adoption should be willing to adopt a child. The biggest argument the prochoice crowd has against adoption is our over crowded foster homes, and adoption agencies that act like for-profit ventures (they aren't but sometimes seem to) so let's get rid of the anti adoption argument by adopting us some kids. Really, it gets on my nerves when I hear adoption as an abortion alternative from people who would never adopt a child.

You're quite right! Anyone who says you should put children up for adoption SHOULD adopt. That's why I'm adopting, there are far too many children in the system, they need parents too. I'm going to be adopting as many as child services will allow, it usually takes a year for the first, a couple for the second, and just gets increasingly difficult the more you adopt, they need to make sure they'll all be well cared for after all!

The difficulty in getting children adopted is the background screening, they NEED to make sure they aren't sending these kids to abusers, ****** (not *****, ped is latin for foot not child, it is an often misspelled word I've found), and unclean homes. You are monitored by child services for a year, sometimes more, to ensure the child is safe.

To have a kid, you just need to have sex....

Adoption makes the hard job of raising a family even harder. Screenings are important. Background checks are important. But when my Aunt tried to adopt, they needed to make sure she was PHYSICALLY capable of handling a kid. Because she's in a wheelchair.

So, even potentially good parents are shut out. Homosexuals, single parents, and even the handicapped have an extra layers of red tape to go through. It's enough to make me vomit. These kids don't have homes as it is, I think even if these parties aren't perfect, its better than they got.

Ironically (and I don't want to sound like I am critical of people adopting from other countries.... We are overcrowded here, there, and everywhere) it's easier to spend a few thousand, go to China to adopt, and you won't have all those problems. That's what my aunt Sheila did.

I know that all I'd need to do is have sex with someone, but that's just not what I choose to do. There are so many children with no parents, that it just seems more right to be a parent to them, than continue to raise the population of the world. On top of that, I'm not having sex outside marriage and right now it's looking like the latter won't happen and so the former most certainly won't!

Actually a homosexual couple in my city has adopted 3 children in the past 4 years..so..yeah.. Single parents and handicapped parents still have that red tape boundary, but homosexuals really don't have much problems, even down here in the "conservative lands".

Yeah, I'd heard that, then again the red tape really is thinner there. We upped the red tape barrier because we were finding a rise in kiddy porn that was using children who were adopted or in a foster home. There HAVE to be restrictions, there are some sick people out there, and we have to protect our kids from them.  

[Jessy_4 26 2008]

Xandris

Then it's rape and a whole different ball game. smile

It's a whole different ball game inside of a ball game @.@ But yeah..just defending that incest isn't always wanted with that statement. Incest is so shamed in today's society that anyone who does do it electively is pretty far underground about it, that's for certain.  

[Matt Pniewski]

Jessy_4 26 2008

Matt Pniewski

Jessy_4 26 2008

Matt Pniewski

Oh, this is a fine topic for the return of my arrogant self.....

The sad thing about this issue is that, well, Abortions have been on the downfall, and with the continuation of better education and better birth control practices, Abortion will be a thing of the past eventually anyway. Late Term and Partial Birth abortions are already on the way out, very clearly so.

So instead of taking it to the streets, protesting outside of clinics, and trying to get legislation, how about the prolife JOINS the prochoice crowd in promoting safe sex practices?

Oh, and anyone who suggests adoption should be willing to adopt a child. The biggest argument the prochoice crowd has against adoption is our over crowded foster homes, and adoption agencies that act like for-profit ventures (they aren't but sometimes seem to) so let's get rid of the anti adoption argument by adopting us some kids. Really, it gets on my nerves when I hear adoption as an abortion alternative from people who would never adopt a child.

You're quite right! Anyone who says you should put children up for adoption SHOULD adopt. That's why I'm adopting, there are far too many children in the system, they need parents too. I'm going to be adopting as many as child services will allow, it usually takes a year for the first, a couple for the second, and just gets increasingly difficult the more you adopt, they need to make sure they'll all be well cared for after all!

The difficulty in getting children adopted is the background screening, they NEED to make sure they aren't sending these kids to abusers, ****** (not *****, ped is latin for foot not child, it is an often misspelled word I've found), and unclean homes. You are monitored by child services for a year, sometimes more, to ensure the child is safe.

To have a kid, you just need to have sex....

Adoption makes the hard job of raising a family even harder. Screenings are important. Background checks are important. But when my Aunt tried to adopt, they needed to make sure she was PHYSICALLY capable of handling a kid. Because she's in a wheelchair.

So, even potentially good parents are shut out. Homosexuals, single parents, and even the handicapped have an extra layers of red tape to go through. It's enough to make me vomit. These kids don't have homes as it is, I think even if these parties aren't perfect, its better than they got.

Ironically (and I don't want to sound like I am critical of people adopting from other countries.... We are overcrowded here, there, and everywhere) it's easier to spend a few thousand, go to China to adopt, and you won't have all those problems. That's what my aunt Sheila did.

I know that all I'd need to do is have sex with someone, but that's just not what I choose to do. There are so many children with no parents, that it just seems more right to be a parent to them, than continue to raise the population of the world. On top of that, I'm not having sex outside marriage and right now it's looking like the latter won't happen and so the former most certainly won't!

I was just mocking how easy it is for people who are unqualified and sometimes don't want to be parents can get kids, but those who truly want to do their best for a kid.... have trouble.

The no sex to marriage thing, too late for me.... Not that I'm in a rush to do it again, I just know how week I tend to be sweatdrop . Not saying I'm going to, I just know that I will. Because I know who I am.

Quote:

Actually a homosexual couple in my city has adopted 3 children in the past 4 years..so..yeah.. Single parents and handicapped parents still have that red tape boundary, but homosexuals really don't have much problems, even down here in the "conservative lands".

Yeah, I'd heard that, then again the red tape really is thinner there. We upped the red tape barrier because we were finding a rise in kiddy porn that was using children who were adopted or in a foster home. There HAVE to be restrictions, there are some sick people out there, and we have to protect our kids from them.

I know that the red tape has to be there, but we have too much of it. And its not that homosexuals have it as much (they still have more than a perfectly fit hetero couple) as much as it's under attack constantly. I'm trying to remember, what was that one group that halted all adoption programs once gay marriage was legalized? I remember reading about it in the newspaper.  

[Priestley]

It's horrible to live in a society where, while it's a great thing to adopt children and to be a role model for young people, it's somehow frowned upon to have children of one's own and "increase the world's population" just because some unfortunate children's parents have died or do not accept the responsibility of parenthood.

Reproduction is a basic human right, people.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Priestley

It's horrible to live in a society where, while it's a great thing to adopt children and to be a role model for young people, it's somehow frowned upon to have children of one's own and "increase the world's population" just because some unfortunate children's parents have died or do not accept the responsibility of parenthood.

Reproduction is a basic human right, people.

Sometimes it shouldn't be. I wonder if I world would be better if everyone was chemically sterilized at birth, and then had to pass a battery of character tests and parenting classes in order to be allowed to have children. We'd have alot less unwanted children and unfit parents. confused  

[Priestley]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Priestley

It's horrible to live in a society where, while it's a great thing to adopt children and to be a role model for young people, it's somehow frowned upon to have children of one's own and "increase the world's population" just because some unfortunate children's parents have died or do not accept the responsibility of parenthood.

Reproduction is a basic human right, people.

Sometimes it shouldn't be. I wonder if I world would be better if everyone was chemically sterilized at birth, and then had to pass a battery of character tests and parenting classes in order to be allowed to have children. We'd have alot less unwanted children and unfit parents. confused

That sounds a lot like eugenics to me.