So what is known of Mormonism?

[KraylorDePanthro]

Thank you Ryuu Chan.

As for the information about Mormon belief in regards to those matters as I understand them:,

They do believe in Jesus the Christ who is the son of Heavenly Father and savior to the world.
Instead of a trinity, as I have liked well, they have the concept of the Godhead, which is Heavenly Father, Jesus the Christ, and The Holy Spirit, who are 3 beings, but united in purpose and essence. For example, would Jesus pray to himself? Not his will, but he who sent him. We shall make them in our image. etc.

Their is also the belief of pre-existence, which is that we are spirit children of Heavenly Father before we came to Earth, but so that we could grow spiritually and be like Christ, we came to earth to have bodies, those who came to earth already chose to follow Christ in the world before. Lucifer is viewed as a brother, in so far much as Jesus is viewed as the eldest brother, when man was to come unto earth from the spirit world, Lucifer proposed his solution, if Heavenly Father sent him, he would make sure all of the people returned to him, by eliminating their free will, and he wanted his Glory.
Jesus's plan was instead, to go as an example unto them, and give them agency to choose to come unto Heavenly Father or not as they wished. Those who chose to follow Lucifer went as spirits never to have a body unto the earth, after he could not take over and he and they seek to bring misery unto the rest. Heavenly Father chose Jesus's plan, and Lucifer had been angered by this.

This does not nec. coincide with common understanding of such things, but that is why revelation and phrophets on the earth are important.  

[Priestley]

KraylorDePanthro

As for the information about Mormon belief in regards to those matters as I understand them:,

They do believe in Jesus the Christ who is the son of Heavenly Father and savior to the world.
Instead of a trinity, as I have liked well, they have the concept of the Godhead, which is Heavenly Father, Jesus the Christ, and The Holy Spirit, who are 3 beings, but united in purpose and essence. For example, would Jesus pray to himself? Not his will, but he who sent him. We shall make them in our image. etc.

There is little to nothing in the gospels to show that there are three persons in one, only that the Father and Son are united by the same spirit. The idea of the trinity comes as a result of Christianity being spread to Greece, where the ideas were merged.

KraylorDePanthro

Their is also the belief of pre-existence, which is that we are spirit children of Heavenly Father before we came to Earth, but so that we could grow spiritually and be like Christ, we came to earth to have bodies, those who came to earth already chose to follow Christ in the world before. Lucifer is viewed as a brother, in so far much as Jesus is viewed as the eldest brother, when man was to come unto earth from the spirit world, Lucifer proposed his solution, if Heavenly Father sent him, he would make sure all of the people returned to him, by eliminating their free will, and he wanted his Glory.
Jesus's plan was instead, to go as an example unto them, and give them agency to choose to come unto Heavenly Father or not as they wished. Those who chose to follow Lucifer went as spirits never to have a body unto the earth, after he could not take over and he and they seek to bring misery unto the rest. Heavenly Father chose Jesus's plan, and Lucifer had been angered by this.

This does not nec. coincide with common understanding of such things, but that is why revelation and phrophets on the earth are important.

I've never seen any Biblical evidence to back this. Please provide it.  

[Break Sage]

ryuu_chan

Break Sage

There is one major problem with mormons. They believe in a false Christ. They believe Christ to be the brother of Satan. They also do not believe in the God the Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit to be one in being (trinity); only in purpose.

....???

I don't know where that came from, but I don't think it's actually IN any Mormon doctrine.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Jesus_Christ_is_the_brother_of_Satan

Read the response part. And your right; it isn't in any Mormon doctrine. It's actually just a bad interpretation of the bible. The section "Children of God" will show you what scripturess they get it from.  

[Break Sage]

Priestley

Break Sage

There is one major problem with mormons. They believe in a false Christ. They believe Christ to be the brother of Satan. They also do not believe in the God the Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit to be one in being (trinity); only in purpose.

I don't believe in the trinity either.

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."  

[KraylorDePanthro]

But how they are one, is I suppose what would be in question.


As for the "biblical evidence" you seek, I believe that particular doctrine is from revelation by Joseph Smith.  

[Priestley]

Break Sage

Priestley

Break Sage

There is one major problem with mormons. They believe in a false Christ. They believe Christ to be the brother of Satan. They also do not believe in the God the Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit to be one in being (trinity); only in purpose.

I don't believe in the trinity either.

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

That appeared in later manuscripts of the Vulgate.

Mine says:

1 John 5:6-9

This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.

Jesus came by water and blood: he was baptised for his mission and he gave up his life for us. The Spirit testifies of this because God's witness is better. This is why it is important to read the context around the quote.

What more evidence do you have of the three-in-one?  

[saki_hanajima7]

KraylorDePanthro

But how they are one, is I suppose what would be in question.


As for the "biblical evidence" you seek, I believe that particular doctrine is from revelation by Joseph Smith.

Pardon me for interrupting, but since when can Joseph Smith's teachings be taken as "biblical evidence?"
And as to your other question, the Trinity is as inexplicable as the Mormon idea of "Spirit Babies," [the pre-existing beings you spoke of earlier] or a number of other doctrines taught by the LDS church.  

[Priestley]

KraylorDePanthro

But how they are one, is I suppose what would be in question.

As for the "biblical evidence" you seek, I believe that particular doctrine is from revelation by Joseph Smith.

Which isn't actually found in the Bible at all.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

In spite of the the existence of two threads on the Trinity, it seems we may have need of another? Unless this directly ties into the discussion on Mormonism ...  

[Priestley]

Fushigi na Butterfly

In spite of the the existence of two threads on the Trinity, it seems we may have need of another? Unless this directly ties into the discussion on Mormonism ...

There are two other threads?  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Unless I deleted one of them. -ponders- But yeah, it should be linked to in the directory.  

[KraylorDePanthro]

I believe the point I was making there, was that the source of that information would be found elsewhere.
Though, at least in LDS, the teachings of the prophets are considered also as sacred texts, a number of the phrophecies are contingent however, on the people remaining faithful and whatnot.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.

Psalms 139:15-16

My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be.

Mormons aren't the first ones to think that spirits exist before they're born here. Jesus tells Judas that it would have been better if he'd never been born. It wasn't a threat or an insult or even said out of hurt: it's because souls exist before and after life on earth. (Or so an old pastor of mine said during a study on that passage, and I'm inclined to agree with him.)

Although... the Lucifer thing is a little weird.

Isaiah 14:13-14

For you have said in your heart:
‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’

I suppose the biggest thing here is that Kraylor obviously found enough truth in the Book of Mormon in conjunction with the Bible and the Mormon congregation to convert.  

[Priestley]

ryuu_chan

Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.

Psalms 139:15-16

My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be.

Mormons aren't the first ones to think that spirits exist before they're born here. Jesus tells Judas that it would have been better if he'd never been born. It wasn't a threat or an insult or even said out of hurt: it's because souls exist before and after life on earth. (Or so an old pastor of mine said during a study on that passage, and I'm inclined to agree with him.)

Those passages don't state that souls exist before people are born. What they imply is that God had a plan and a purpose for creating each individual. One must think up an idea, make a plan, before one can execute it. As for Judas, if he wasn't born, he would not have committed the sin of betraying the Son of Man. That is all. Not being born doesn't imply existence before birth.

ryuu_chan

Although... the Lucifer thing is a little weird.

Isaiah 14:13-14

For you have said in your heart:
‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’

Well, it's not exactly a secret that Lucifer, i.e. Satan the Devil, wants to be God. That's the reason why the world is the way it is.

ryuu_chan

I suppose the biggest thing here is that Kraylor obviously found enough truth in the Book of Mormon in conjunction with the Bible and the Mormon congregation to convert.

Oh, I'm glad that he's come to know Christ, don't misunderstand me. I'm skeptical of Mormonism and the LDS. I'm convinced that they are misled and are misleading.  

[KraylorDePanthro]

Well, if they have in common what convential Christianity holds to be Christian, belief that we are to call on Christ our Savior the Son of God, into our hearts and repent of our sins, be baptised, acknowledges the holy spirit, worships Heavenly Father, and calls for us to endure to the end or run the good race, etc. reads the bible, holds chastity, honesty, benevolence, be good things,
then they are therefore, okay there, but if the others do not hold the other things they hold, perhaps it is they who should examine if it would benefit them to do so. But I digress, if you are content, see number 11, that is your right. But if you feel that it is true, then learn more by all means.

here is The Articles of Faith that LDS holds:


The full text (with some later alterations by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) is reproduced here:

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the [A]tonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that these ordinances1 [the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel]1 are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God[,] by "prophecy, and by the laying on of hands" by those who are in authority[,] to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the [P]rimitive [C]hurch, viz: [namely,] apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists[,] &c [and so forth].
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues[,] &c [and so forth].
8. We believe the ible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that [H]e does now reveal, and we believe that [H]e will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the [K]ingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes[;] [t]hat Zion [(the New Jerusalem)] will be built upon this1 [the]1 [American]2 continent[;] [t]hat Christ will reign personally upon the earth[;] and[,] that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiac[al] glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our [own]1 conscience, and allow all men the same privilege[,] let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men [all men]; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul [—] "we believe all things[,] we hope all things," we have endured many things[,] and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praise worthy [praiseworthy,] we seek after these things.

Note 1: additions and replacements made in 1902.
Note 2: added in 1851.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Faith_(Latter_Day_Saints)