The Basics

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

And to what extend is the psychodrama and magic a mental exercise, and to what extent is it physical.

I'd say it depends on the "magic" in question.  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

TeaDidikai

PrayThatThisEnds

Good points, however -

You can do the LBRP mentally.

The East is symbolic.
Second, i have never seen the LBRP done with a cast circle unless it was to consecrate/banish a certain object or space in a very real, strong sense in that area.

Also keep in mind the very same ritual can also be used to invoke as well as banish depending on how you draw the pentagrams.

At which point you hit the Wizzard Paradox.

CM is a valid practice. But at what point have you cut down the ritual to the point where the symbols aren't important.

For The Rite of AshkEnte- do you really need eight wizards with formal robes, the proper staves, the rams horns, human skulls, the octagon inscribed candles, and the pints of goats blood? Or do you need some wood and 4ccs of Mouse Blood?

That whole Rite thing looks like its the fictional work of Terry prachett or something along those lines. I see what your saying, but honestly, most of the tools in CM can be substituted or made yourself within a weeks time span. I built my double cubical altar in 3 days, sewn together a robe while doing that in a week, and also whittled, carved, and painted a double wand of outer power.

Eveyrhting is fully painted, and protectively coated with some kind of enamel, etc.

Maybe i just have enough free time, though.  

[Recursive Paradox]

For me symbols and rituals are interchangeable at first, because it's all material designed to put me in the correct mental state in which to focus, concentrate and direct my own energy (or focusing, concentrating and directing the energy of other things and my surroundings as the case may be)

Unfortunately once I've done something a few times, it becomes pretty heavily psychologically associated with that given state and energy work. And so I have a relatively set ritual that I need to follow to get the same results.

Being caught in the psychological trap of routine and habit is what makes my rituals become more concrete in their form.

Which is why I generally go for simplicity in ritual and mental visualization above all. That allows things to remain simple when they cement themselves in my mind.  

[TeaDidikai]

Hey Celeblin? Is it still a 666.5 if it's in the guild? Or is it limited to M&R?

PrayThatThisEnds

I see what your saying, but honestly, most of the tools in CM can be substituted or made yourself within a weeks time span.

You're missing the point. Think about what CM is and then contrast it with the title of the thread.  

[Recursive Paradox]

TeaDidikai

Is it still a 666.5 if it's in the guild?

crying Not me I hope? I'm oblivious sometimes.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

Oh, is that what 666.5 means?  

[Recursive Paradox]

The really funny part of 666.5 is that I'm pretty sure it can be described as recursive conceptually.  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

TeaDidikai

Hey Celeblin? Is it still a 666.5 if it's in the guild? Or is it limited to M&R?

PrayThatThisEnds

I see what your saying, but honestly, most of the tools in CM can be substituted or made yourself within a weeks time span.

You're missing the point. Think about what CM is and then contrast it with the title of the thread.

46. Dost thou fail? Art thou sorry? Is fear in thine heart?
47. Where I am these are not.

Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law

the LBRP is ratehr rpetty basic. it only takes 5 minutes, and you can do it with just your hand in an empty room. No need for daggers or wands or exotic clothes.

Love is the Law, Love under Will.

48. Pity not the fallen! I never knew them. I am not for them. I console not: I hate the consoled & the consoler.
49. I am unique & conqueror. I am not of the slaves that perish. Be they damned & dead! Amen.  

[CuAnnan]

PrayThatThisEnds

the LBRP is ratehr rpetty basic. it only takes 5 minutes, and you can do it with just your hand in an empty room. No need for daggers or wands or exotic clothes.

Seems to me that using it outside of its circle summoning and banishing for CM is a little like psychodrama for the sake of it.  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

CuAnnan

PrayThatThisEnds

the LBRP is ratehr rpetty basic. it only takes 5 minutes, and you can do it with just your hand in an empty room. No need for daggers or wands or exotic clothes.

Seems to me that using it outside of its circle summoning and banishing for CM is a little like psychodrama for the sake of it.

the LBRP is designed for one to get good at banishing and clearing a space - it is not mental masturbation for the sake of it. And part of banishing is pyschodrama.

Have you performed the LBRP at all?  

[TeaDidikai]

PrayThatThisEnds

the LBRP is designed for one to get good at banishing and clearing a space - it is not mental masturbation for the sake of it.

I'm going to have to ask for proof of this assertion.

You offer up you're evidence, and I'll snag my books.

Quote:

And part of banishing is pyschodrama.

Not always.

Quote:

Have you performed the LBRP at all?

Yep. There's a reason I'm not a Thelemite.  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

TeaDidikai

PrayThatThisEnds

the LBRP is designed for one to get good at banishing and clearing a space - it is not mental masturbation for the sake of it.

I'm going to have to ask for proof of this assertion.

You offer up you're evidence, and I'll snag my books.

Quote:

And part of banishing is pyschodrama.

Not always.

Quote:

Have you performed the LBRP at all?

Yep. There's a reason I'm not a Thelemite.

Obviously not because the LBRP is not Thelemite in nature.  

[TeaDidikai]

PrayThatThisEnds

Obviously not because the LBRP is not Thelemite in nature.

Care to explain that one line snippet and maybe meet the challenge issued?  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

TeaDidikai

PrayThatThisEnds

Obviously not because the LBRP is not Thelemite in nature.

Care to explain that one line snippet and maybe meet the challenge issued?

Very well.

the LBRP was deciphered from the Golden Dawn Cipher (As was all the Grades and intiatory Rituals - decoded Wynn Westcott & co.) - Folios may be seen here:

http://www.hermetic.com/gdlibrary/cipher/

More info on the History of the G.'.D.'.:
http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/Documents/Bios/GDhistory.htm


And from there, it [The LBRP and intiatory Rituals] was practiced. The Golden Dawn was created before the Advent of Thelema. Crowley was a member of the G.D. at one point, and passed through the Grades rapidly. (Source: Aleister Crowley, Wickedest Man Alive, documentary can be found on YouTube)



As for the effectiveness of the LBRP:

"The Pentagram is a powerful symbol representing the operation of the Eternal Spirit nd the Four Elements under the divine Presidency of the letters of the Name Yeheshuah. ... These two pentagrams are in general use for invokating and banishing, and their use is given to the Neophyte of the first Order of the Golden Dawn under the title the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram. The Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram is of only use in general and unimportant invokations. Its use is permitted to the Outer that Neophytes may have protection against opposing forces, and also that they may form some idea of how to attract and to come into communication with spiritual and invisible things. The banishing Pentagram of Earth will also serve thee for a protection if thou trace it in the Air between thee and any opposing Astral force. In all cases of tracing a pentagram, the angle should be carefully closed at the finishing point. [...] The Kerubic Sign of the Element is to be traced in the center. [my note: This is for the Greater Ritual of the Pentagram] the banishing signs are the reversing of the current. But before all things, complete the circle of the place wherein thou workest, seeing that is the key of the rest. Unless you want to limit or confine the force, make not a circle around each pentagram. [...] Whenever thou shalt prepare to commence any Magical work or operation, it is advisable for thee to consecrate and clear the place by performing the Lesser banishing Ritual of the Pentagram."
- The Golden Dawn, Vol. III, Book 4 "Primary techniques", pgs. 9 - 19 "The Ritual of the Pentagram" as revealed by Israel Regardie. (Source: My collection, book can be found at: http://www.amazon.com/Golden-Dawn-Teachings-Ceremonies-Llewellyns/dp/0875426638/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230989741&sr=8-1 )

The text above is not written by Regardie, but from the original founders - it claims no exact authorship that i have been able to find as of yet.

Further on, this time, Regardie, in his introduction to the second edition of volume one states:

" I Aleister Crowley disapproved of my action, I have to be egotisitcal enough to assume that my editorial job was far better than his own with his amanuensis of that time, Captain J.F.C. Fuller. My version certainly was more orderly and more adherent to the letter of the Order system ... "

Regardie was here refferign to his feud with Aleister Crowley about publishing the Order teachings...

In any case, he goes onto say in his introduction:

" Start off first with the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. Follow the instructions to the letter [...] Do not leave the topic until absolute perfection has been obtained, else you may be obliged to return and master it before you can proceed to more advanced matters. "

Also in Self-initation into the Golden Dawn by Sandra & Chic Cicero they state:

" This simple yet powerful cleansing ritual can be used as protection against the impure magnetism of others. It is also a way to rid oneself of obsessing or disturbing thoughts. Give a mental image to yiour partcular thought or disturbance and visualize it before you. Project it out of your aura with the Sign of the Enterer, and when it is away from you, prevent its return with the Sign of Silence. Then imagine the Form in the East and perform the LBRP. See the form dissolving on the outside of your ring of flaming pentagrams.
The LBRP can be used as an excersize in concentration. While seated or lying down, formulate yourself standing up in robes and holding a dagger. Place your conciousness in this astral form and go to the East. [...] The LBRP is to be performed daily for no less than a period of 6 months. In fact, it should be practiced daily, reagrdless of one's grade. The Golden Dawn Manuscripts advocated doing the invoking form of this ritual in the morning and the banishing form at night. However, we feel that the Neophyte needs to concentrate solely on the banishing form since s/he has a tendency to light up the astral and unknowingly attract all sorts of elementals at this early stage of the Work. it is far more important for the neophyte to know how to banish then to invoke. Anyone can attract an Elemental or an energy. Getting ride of the same can be more difficult."
(Source: Self-initiation into the Golden Dawn by Sandra & Chic Cicero pgs 81-84)


Those are all the sources i feel like quoting right now. let me know if you need more. All typos are also mine as i took the time to write out these passages from the books that I own.

LVX,
Fr. L.e.L., Probationer of the G.'.D.'.

"