This is a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway thread

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

Sophist

Could you please explain what a Will Worker is and why they don't rely on psychodrama?

Will Workers is a generic term within my local social circle. (Read, mileage may vary)

It is essentially someone who uses their will alone to alter whatever "patterns" they need to produce a desired effect.

I understand the theory, but I can't say I completely agree with a number of the common premises.

How do they do this?

Quote:

Quote:

What would be the purpose of achieving psychodrama in the context of something like a spell to bring job opportunities if it does not affect the outside world?

Psychological effects.

In your example, confidence may not suddenly make job opportunities appear, but it could well make the person seeking the job more confident, and that could influence those who are hiring.

Now, would one be conscious of this as an overarching goal, knowing that the spellworking itself might just be a "psyching up procedure" rather than an honest to goodness tool to affect the external reality? Necessarily so? Does it matter? That last one might just be up to the individual, but I'd like your input. This also kinda reminds me of Chaos Magic- belief as a tool. Is that an apt comparison?  

[TatteredAngel]

Sophist

Now, would one be conscious of this as an overarching goal, knowing that the spellworking itself might just be a "psyching up procedure" rather than an honest to goodness tool to affect the external reality? Necessarily so? Does it matter? That last one might just be up to the individual, but I'd like your input. This also kinda reminds me of Chaos Magic- belief as a tool. Is that an apt comparison?

I hope you don't mind me butting in a bit, but I thought I'd speak to part of your question. In my case, I am almost always conscious of psychodrama as the overarching goal of my work.

I do see the comparison to Chaos Magic, but from what I've read thus far (people who actually do more than dabble in it are welcome to correct me) Chaos Magic is still aimed at magically influencing the world, as opposed to affecting psychological change in oneself.

Since I do not have training in magical workings, or so far as I can tell, a lot of skill, psychodrama is very important to me, because it allows me to create an environment for myself where I know I can make real changes. The mystical elements allow me to circumvent some more pessimistic parts of my thought process-- in essence, it's there to ground me spiritually and to fool my brain.  

[Bastemhet]

TatteredAngel

Sophist

Now, would one be conscious of this as an overarching goal, knowing that the spellworking itself might just be a "psyching up procedure" rather than an honest to goodness tool to affect the external reality? Necessarily so? Does it matter? That last one might just be up to the individual, but I'd like your input. This also kinda reminds me of Chaos Magic- belief as a tool. Is that an apt comparison?

I hope you don't mind me butting in a bit, but I thought I'd speak to part of your question. In my case, I am almost always conscious of psychodrama as the overarching goal of my work.

I do see the comparison to Chaos Magic, but from what I've read thus far (people who actually do more than dabble in it are welcome to correct me) Chaos Magic is still aimed at magically influencing the world, as opposed to affecting psychological change in oneself.

Since I do not have training in magical workings, or so far as I can tell, a lot of skill, psychodrama is very important to me, because it allows me to create an environment for myself where I know I can make real changes. The mystical elements allow me to circumvent some more pessimistic parts of my thought process-- in essence, it's there to ground me spiritually and to fool my brain.

I see. I didn't realize that material results are not always the goal of magic. I can see why it would be helpful in the way you described. Thanks for giving your input.

Actually, I tried looking up Chaos Magic and this website I found really helped me to understand the different types of magic. I'll have to study this further, but I think I got a push in the right direction.  

[Bastemhet]

In order to not muck up other conversations, what is a disintegrated world view?  

[TeaDidikai]

Sophist

In order to not muck up other conversations, what is a disintegrated world view?

A world view that relies on compartmentalization over integration.

The most common thing I run into in the pagan scene when it comes to this is the relationship between an individual and their body- especially when they maintain an Otherworld tradition that allows for them to become separate from their body (read: OBE).  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

Sophist

In order to not muck up other conversations, what is a disintegrated world view?

A world view that relies on compartmentalization over integration.

The most common thing I run into in the pagan scene when it comes to this is the relationship between an individual and their body- especially when they maintain an Otherworld tradition that allows for them to become separate from their body (read: OBE).

Do you think this is not a valid or useful approach? It seems like this is one of the fundamental basics of Chaos magic, from what I understand of it.  

[TeaDidikai]

Sophist

Do you think this is not a valid or useful approach? It seems like this is one of the fundamental basics of Chaos magic, from what I understand of it.

Chaos magic relies on a difference of form over substance.

As for valid, I'll hold it valid when people who engage in OBE's die from them.  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

Sophist

Do you think this is not a valid or useful approach? It seems like this is one of the fundamental basics of Chaos magic, from what I understand of it.

Chaos magic relies on a difference of form over substance.

As for valid, I'll hold it valid when people who engage in OBE's die from them.

Wait what? I'm not getting the OBE thing.  

[TeaDidikai]

Sophist

TeaDidikai

Sophist

Do you think this is not a valid or useful approach? It seems like this is one of the fundamental basics of Chaos magic, from what I understand of it.

Chaos magic relies on a difference of form over substance.

As for valid, I'll hold it valid when people who engage in OBE's die from them.

Wait what? I'm not getting the OBE thing.

Disclaimer:
This is one of those places where my tradition has a hard stance, but I'm personally apathetic towards others contradicting cosmologies.

That said, the idea of the self being disconnected from the biological functions that support life breaks down within the concept of Astral projection style OBEs.  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

Sophist

TeaDidikai

Sophist

Do you think this is not a valid or useful approach? It seems like this is one of the fundamental basics of Chaos magic, from what I understand of it.

Chaos magic relies on a difference of form over substance.

As for valid, I'll hold it valid when people who engage in OBE's die from them.

Wait what? I'm not getting the OBE thing.

Disclaimer:
This is one of those places where my tradition has a hard stance, but I'm personally apathetic towards others contradicting cosmologies.

That said, the idea of the self being disconnected from the biological functions that support life breaks down within the concept of Astral projection style OBEs.

Ah, k. I wasn't sure if you were speaking about the nature of OBEs or your tradition's stance on it. Thanks for the clarification.  

[TeaDidikai]

Sophist

Ah, k. I wasn't sure if you were speaking about the nature of OBEs or your tradition's stance on it. Thanks for the clarification.

Happy it helped.  

[AniMajor]

So, (unrelated to the posts above) how would one go about using magic in combat?

I've met a few people who've claimed they've gotten into magical fights with people. But, assuming they weren't making it up, I can't figure out how it would work out.

Obviously there are martial arts that practice a more mystical side, but what about fighting without necessarily touching someone?

No, I'm not looking to try it out, I just can't seem to think in the right direction.  

[Cyrus the Elder]

AniMajor

So, (unrelated to the posts above) how would one go about using magic in combat?

Simple, you level grind a bit, stock up on a few hundred mana pots, and then spam fire-ball. 3nodding

And now stepping aside for serious answers. ninja  

[AniMajor]

Cyrus the Elder

AniMajor

So, (unrelated to the posts above) how would one go about using magic in combat?

Simple, you level grind a bit, stock up on a few hundred mana pots, and then spam fire-ball. 3nodding

And now stepping aside for serious answers. ninja

I should've seen that coming. I wish it was as easy as that.  

[FlySammyJ]

AniMajor

So, (unrelated to the posts above) how would one go about using magic in combat?

I've met a few people who've claimed they've gotten into magical fights with people. But, assuming they weren't making it up, I can't figure out how it would work out.

Obviously there are martial arts that practice a more mystical side, but what about fighting without necessarily touching someone?

No, I'm not looking to try it out, I just can't seem to think in the right direction.

Doesn't Carlos Castaneda talk about magical/spiritual battles? It's been a while.