Terminology and Believability

[Deoridhe]

MoonJeli

I didn't remember Deoridhe including information on fylgia in hers

That's more to me wanting to have more of a basis for what I say before I add it in than any privacy issue. The few things I hold truly private I won't even hint at in here; my Old Man taught me well. wink HE, however, is a bloody tease. *mutters about gods whispering in the ear of a son and not sharing with the class*  

[Pelta]

MoonJeli

TeaDidikai

MoonJeli

Thank you! This is quite helpful. For those able to share I would like to hear about their paths' beliefs regarding this or their own personal experiences, though I know for many it's intensely private.

Have you checked out the Pathways subforum?

Some, yes. I wasn't sure if the majority of people with experience on the subject had actually included it in their path description, though, since I didn't remember Deoridhe including information on fylgia in hers, or missmagpie writing about spirit guides in hers, both of whom already contributed to this topic. I may have missed some though, so I'll go back and re-read.

Eh. Yeah... That thing's old. Very old. And way off the mark about what I actually do. Maybe I should do something about that... sweatdrop

Quote:

TeaDidikai

Angels? ~is KO'ed and dragged off into her dark corner by the M&R regs who long have since tired of listening to Tea's rants on YHVH's Will-forms~

Does that mean I missed out? sad Do you have any links to past discussions?

To save Tea some ranting, biblically Angels are workers of God's will.

Ie. It is God's will to completely obliterate an entire nation. Who's sent to do the dirty work? Angels. And not only is it genocide, it's not even humane! Raining brimstone really can't be pleasant...

Basically angels are mindless, automatic agents of whatever the man upstairs wants done. Ruthless machines who will stop at nothing to do what they've been commanded. That whole free will thing... wink So pretty much the last thing you could possibly want to happen is to come into contact with these things.*

"Please God! We'll do anything! Just don't send the Angels!"

Quote:

I mostly asked because of the original focus of this thread. Some walk-ins and lightworkers and the like claim to be angels ("earth angels") instead of aliens. Or to be channeling them. Or something like that.

So basically they're claiming to be... utterly insane. Or deluded. Or if they're actually by some fluke telling the truth, they're claiming to be a soulless automaton. In any case I'd stay the hell away...  

[TeaDidikai]

MoonJeli

Some, yes. I wasn't sure if the majority of people with experience on the subject had actually included it in their path description, though, since I didn't remember Deoridhe including information on fylgia in hers, or missmagpie writing about spirit guides in hers, both of whom already contributed to this topic. I may have missed some though, so I'll go back and re-read.

If you don't see it in the thread- ask about it. wink

Quote:

Do you know if Totems are passed through paternal or maternal lines, or does that have anything to do with it? That is, if a person's mom and dad both had Totems, which one would you be tied to?

Depends on the culture.

My "Totem" was from my Father's line.

Quote:

I mostly asked because of the original focus of this thread. Some walk-ins and lightworkers and the like claim to be angels ("earth angels") instead of aliens. Or to be channeling them. Or something like that.

I raise the same base objections to them that I raise to any form of Otherkin.

Of an interesting note, the folks who have a solid grasp of Otherworld Trads who have understandings outside of internal human experience have come to agree with my assessment of what an "Otherkin" is.

I am looking forward to Deo using the tips and tricks I taught her to see what conclusions she comes to.  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

*mutters about gods whispering in the ear of a son and not sharing with the class*

I wonder how one would go about finding out about that. Who would you bribe? The old man or the son? Or the Son as the Old Man... or visa versa... or.. or... ~thwacks herself in the head~

Maybe if I suffer enough head trauma the Internal Mystic will learn to keep her thoughts to herself.  

[TeaDidikai]

missmagpie

Maybe I should do something about that... sweatdrop

Yes. Yes you should.

Quote:

To save Tea some ranting, biblically Angels are workers of God's will.

Ie. It is God's will to completely obliterate an entire nation. Who's sent to do the dirty work? Angels. And not only is it genocide, it's not even humane! Raining brimstone really can't be pleasant...

Basically angels are mindless, automatic agents of whatever the man upstairs wants done. Ruthless machines who will stop at nothing to do what they've been commanded. That whole free will thing... wink So pretty much the last thing you could possibly want to happen is to come into contact with these things.*

Pretty much.

I'll note that it is one god in particular that I object to crossing paths with. I'll also note that some people who have the materials and know-how are perfectly safe in contacting them. To be honest- I'd rather work with Goetic spirits than the Supernal Keys myself.  

[Pelta]

TeaDidikai

Of an interesting note, the folks who have a solid grasp of Otherworld Trads who have understandings outside of internal human experience have come to agree with my assessment of what an "Otherkin" is.

Just out of curiousity, which assessment was this? Was it the one you mentioned on the otherkin thread that came up about a year ago?

Would you mind posting it again just for posterity? I'm not quite sure I remember what it was...  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Deoridhe

*mutters about gods whispering in the ear of a son and not sharing with the class*

I wonder how one would go about finding out about that. Who would you bribe? The old man or the son? Or the Son as the Old Man... or visa versa... or.. or... ~thwacks herself in the head~

Maybe if I suffer enough head trauma the Internal Mystic will learn to keep her thoughts to herself.

Instinct says that I should go with the son unless I want to be dead first.  

[Fiddlers Green]

TeaDidikai

Fiddlers Green

How would one consider Orders which maintained specific Animal imagry and (for want of better terminology) spiritual signifigance, and the rights extended to those who joined said orders to bear the Arms (and Imagry of the spirit guide) of said orders?

Couldn't say without more details, but I don't see it as impossible. I would be interested in knowing (not that I ever shall... but I would be interested at least wink ) how many of these are independent of the Founder of the Order's generation.

Actually, I was refering to certain smaller Chivalric orders.
I suppose certain magic societies arms may be similar, but, sadly enough, the majority seem I have interacted with see them as pretty symbolism and little more. Or worse yet, an inheritance from their founder (or "spiritual founder")'s arms. rolleyes  

[TeaDidikai]

missmagpie

Just out of curiousity, which assessment was this? Was it the one you mentioned on the otherkin thread that came up about a year ago?

That's the one.

Quote:

Would you mind posting it again just for posterity? I'm not quite sure I remember what it was...

The idea of Fostering and traits being passed between Foster-er and Foster-ee over "trapped souls".

Granted, this stems directly from observation, and like I said, I am interested in hearing Deo's assertions on the matter after she has a chance to hone the tip I gave her.

Deoridhe

Instinct says that I should go with the son unless I want to be dead first.

Fair point.  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

Actually, I was refering to certain smaller Chivalric orders.

Ah. I see. Not sure I can say one way or the other (as before).

Could you explian what you mean when you say "Spiritual Signifigance"?  

[Fiddlers Green]

TeaDidikai

Ah. I see. Not sure I can say one way or the other (as before).

Could you explian what you mean when you say "Spiritual Signifigance"?

The animal, mor than just being considered nifty looking, or otherwise aesthetic on the arms, instead was choosen for either religious, or culturally signifigant reasons ( in cases where the animal has certain associations in the lore of the regio, such as salmon and wisdom in some areas.). also, when the animal is not just on the shield, but also maintained, or interacted with by said order...  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

TeaDidikai

Ah. I see. Not sure I can say one way or the other (as before).

Could you explian what you mean when you say "Spiritual Signifigance"?

The animal, mor than just being considered nifty looking, or otherwise aesthetic on the arms, instead was choosen for either religious, or culturally signifigant reasons ( in cases where the animal has certain associations in the lore of the regio, such as salmon and wisdom in some areas.). also, when the animal is not just on the shield, but also maintained, or interacted with by said order...

I'm sorry Fiddler, I've read this a halfdozen times, even went away for a day and came back hoping I could make more sense of this.

As best as I can understand this- I can see three structures that work with my understanding of both the word Totem and the nature of "Animal Shaped Otherlings" that might have this concept applied-

1) An Order in which the being would belong to those of the Order- in which case it would not be passed within the family unless the Otherling in question gave itself to a Bloodline it met through the Order.

2) The "Otherling" in question not being the same as the initial animal. An example would be dealing with "Coyote" v. dealing with a coyote spirit.

3) A Thoughtform being generated and maintained by either the Bloodline's Agent within the Order, or the offspring of said Agent who gathered fuel from their Kin's mythos.

Does any of this make sense to anyone else?  

[Pelta]

TeaDidikai

Does any of this make sense to anyone else?

I'm thinking (though I may be completely off) that the heraldic animal has spiritual connection to the order similar to a totem. Thus if the order, like a family, is linked to the specific animal that acts as a spiritual totem within the order. It would then be honored appropriately.

Or that's what I get off it anyway. I may be completely wrong. sweatdrop

On that interesting thought about interaction, is there any spiritual significance to interacting with the physical animal that the totem represents in anybody's tradition?  

[Deoridhe]

missmagpie

TeaDidikai

Does any of this make sense to anyone else?

I'm thinking (though I may be completely off) that the heraldic animal has spiritual connection to the order similar to a totem. Thus if the order, like a family, is linked to the specific animal that acts as a spiritual totem within the order. It would then be honored appropriately.

Or that's what I get off it anyway. I may be completely wrong. sweatdrop

On that interesting thought about interaction, is there any spiritual significance to interacting with the physical animal that the totem represents in anybody's tradition?

In that case, my father's family totem is a tree.

eek

That's kinda cool.  

[Pelta]

Deoridhe

In that case, my father's family totem is a tree.

eek

That's kinda cool.

Wow! Deadly!

I really like that idea now...

I don't think my ancestral family have ever been spiritual enough to have totems. Though maybe if I trace it back far enough on the Irish side... I'll hit a spiritual block because I'm not Irish. confused Hrm.

And what about adoptions? If someone is adopted do they receive the guardian family's totem, or is it linked to bloodline genetics?