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TeaDidikai

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:20 pm
SoundDoctrine
TeaDidikai
SoundDoctrine

How would you go about protecting yourself?
Some traditions do this by not giving up the most basic of defenses- corporealism. Other traditions use incantations, amulets and the like, still others have constructs designed to defend them or other spirits that are invested in their well being so that said spirits protect them.

Well, from my understanding of a construct, basically you're saying that a person can make up their own little creature that could protect them, right? Is there anything else involved with getting a construct besides just thinking it up?
Perhaps this is not the best place for this? I don't wish to drag the topic away from Maggies theology.  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:26 pm
TeaDidikai
SoundDoctrine
TeaDidikai
SoundDoctrine

How would you go about protecting yourself?
Some traditions do this by not giving up the most basic of defenses- corporealism. Other traditions use incantations, amulets and the like, still others have constructs designed to defend them or other spirits that are invested in their well being so that said spirits protect them.

Well, from my understanding of a construct, basically you're saying that a person can make up their own little creature that could protect them, right? Is there anything else involved with getting a construct besides just thinking it up?
Perhaps this is not the best place for this? I don't wish to drag the topic away from Maggies theology.

Okay. I tried to PM you but you either have to take your PMs off of Friend's Only, add me to your friends list, or I don't know. Maybe we could make a separate thread in the guild's main forum, or just make a friend's thread in the Chatterbox or something.  

Sound Doxa

Sparkly Explorer


Pelta

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:32 am
TeaDidikai
SoundDoctrine
TeaDidikai
SoundDoctrine

How would you go about protecting yourself?
Some traditions do this by not giving up the most basic of defenses- corporealism. Other traditions use incantations, amulets and the like, still others have constructs designed to defend them or other spirits that are invested in their well being so that said spirits protect them.

Well, from my understanding of a construct, basically you're saying that a person can make up their own little creature that could protect them, right? Is there anything else involved with getting a construct besides just thinking it up?
Perhaps this is not the best place for this? I don't wish to drag the topic away from Maggies theology.
Oh I don't mind. I always like discussions. 3nodding

Tea is right, one of the best defences is corporealism. Staying tangible is always the safest bet. However, in a lot of what I do this isn't always possible.

There are multiple other ways to protect yourself. I, for one, will always create some sort of ward around my body when I'm gone wandering, just to make sure nobody takes an unhealthy interest in it while I'm gone. While travelling, servitors could probably be useful. I've never made any for that specific purpose, but I'm sure it could be done. I have also had occasions where deities and friendly spirits have interceded on my behalf.

By far the simplest, or at least what I do, is fully on the astral. Things there are much easier to manipulate. A gribbly is nothing compared to the full possibility of the astral. Hel, if you really knew how you could unmake a gribbly in seconds. There are innumerable ways to protect yourself.

There are lots of creative ways of dealing with opposition: Binding, shielding, trickery, diplomacy... But you have to remember some of them are just as bloody crafty. I've had some... weird experiences with visitors on the Astral.

And always make sure you know your way home.  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:03 pm
I'm guessing that your traveling isn't the same as the typical astral traveling I've been reading about. From reading up a bit on out of body experiences, most people escribe just getting out of their body and being able to look at it, or being able to walk through walls and windows. But with your travels, it seems much different from only doing that, since you get to go places, and meet people/creatures and stuff.
So, with the typical out of body experiences, people just talk about landing in their body whenever they thought of their body or the physical world. They usually talk about how you can just end up in your body in seconds, but you're talking about "knowing your way home". From you saying that, I got the impression that, instead of just wishing to be back, that you had to actually find your way back, and like, walk there.
If you didn't know your way home, like if you travelled somewhere really really far, how would you get back? Could you just wish to be back in your body and stop the whole thing?
Also, when travelling, instead of actually walking places, could you just wish to be some place, or just make up a place in your mind, and automatically end up there?

And I personally have never tried any binding, making a ward, or shield making that you keep talking about. How does that work? Do you just make it up in your mind? Do you have a special techinque? Is it all about crafting it with your energy? I'm really clueless when it comes to this stuff.

**EDIT**
I read what you said about making a ward around your body again. By saying that you do this to make sure that no one takes an unhealthy interest in it when you're gone, do you mean that people/creatures could harm your physical body while you're travelling?
If your physical body was harmed, would you feel it while travelling?
What if you came back to your body, would you feel a pain or that smoething bad had happened while you were gone?
What if another person walked in while you were travelling, could they wake you up, and could they harm you without you noticing until you came back?  

Sound Doxa

Sparkly Explorer


Pelta

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:05 am
SoundDoctrine
I'm guessing that your traveling isn't the same as the typical astral traveling I've been reading about. From reading up a bit on out of body experiences, most people escribe just getting out of their body and being able to look at it, or being able to walk through walls and windows. But with your travels, it seems much different from only doing that, since you get to go places, and meet people/creatures and stuff.
Ah yeah, perhaps we should make a distinction here. I consider astral travel to be either. What I technically do are Otherworld journeys. I go ~elsewhere~. This plane is rather boring to wander around in non-corporeal form unless you have something really specific to do.

Quote:
So, with the typical out of body experiences, people just talk about landing in their body whenever they thought of their body or the physical world. They usually talk about how you can just end up in your body in seconds, but you're talking about "knowing your way home". From you saying that, I got the impression that, instead of just wishing to be back, that you had to actually find your way back, and like, walk there.
Or fly. Or just will yourself home. The difference between astral and otherworld travel is that one can interact with the otherworlds while you're there. When you're non-corporeal here, the only things you can interact with are other non-corporeal things. Time and space are completely different elsewhere. Although I am always linked to my body, the relationship between corporeal and non-corporeal reality becomes a bit blurred. Plus I'm usually in a rather deep trance. So getting back sometimes requires a little more care.

Quote:
If you didn't know your way home, like if you travelled somewhere really really far, how would you get back? Could you just wish to be back in your body and stop the whole thing?
Yes. I only really got lost once when I was young and stupid. My guide took me home and gave me a good telling-off. It's really quite simple to get back to your body.

Quote:
Also, when travelling, instead of actually walking places, could you just wish to be some place, or just make up a place in your mind, and automatically end up there?
Yes. Some places in the astral are infinitely malleable, especially if it's something you've created.

Besides, walking is so dull. Flying is way cooler.

Quote:
And I personally have never tried any binding, making a ward, or shield making that you keep talking about. How does that work? Do you just make it up in your mind? Do you have a special techinque? Is it all about crafting it with your energy? I'm really clueless when it comes to this stuff.
Refer to the post I wrote to Triste about making stuff happen. Again, I'm not entirely sure I can explain how I do it.

Quote:
I read what you said about making a ward around your body again. By saying that you do this to make sure that no one takes an unhealthy interest in it when you're gone, do you mean that people/creatures could harm your physical body while you're travelling?
Actually, what I meant was wandering gribblies deciding to play havoc with the defenceless body. But physical things can hurt you too. Your body is still corporeal. The house could fall down on top of it - the body would definately be hurt.

It is a bit like a dart board of concentric circles. Your body is at the very center. You're travelling through various circles beyond the body. If something happens to the central focus it resonates through the rest of the circles. The further away you are (or the deeper in trance), the less it will effect you. But you will probably still feel it in some minute way. So in a deep trance a bug crawling up my leg wouldn't bother me. In the same trance, the roof falling on my head will definately wake me up. Depending on the trance, the pain will probably hurt more when I get back. This is probably due to the fact that when I'm in trance all my muscles are relaxed. When I get back they tense again, causing the source of pain to hurt more.

Like when you're drunk and fall over, you don't feel it as much because you're all relaxed. It only hurts in the morning when you stiffen up. wink

Quote:
What if another person walked in while you were travelling, could they wake you up, and could they harm you without you noticing until you came back?
No. I would wake up if someone entered my wards.

As a matter of note, it is actually possible to leave part of yourself behind. It sometimes happens if I come back too quickly. I've also done it on purpose every now and then. I've had some very strange days where part of me decided not to come down and I've walked around in both places simultaneously. It's weird.  
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:10 am
Do you remember when you first began to "journey"? Have you always just done it naturally, or was there a day when you decided, "I'm going to see what the astral is like"?

(Who-oa-oa, thread necro.)  

Annalixa


godhi

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:57 am
There are a number of ways to protect yourself on the Astral Plane:

arrow The most simple method is through the use of the Witches' Pyramid, which is one of the most basic principles in magic. The four cornerstones of the Witches' Pyramid are:


FAITH: You must believe in yourself, your Gods, and your magic;
IMAGINATION: You must be able to visualize your wants and needs;
KNOWLEDGE: You must know the laws and principles of magic;
WILLPOWER: You must have the strength of Will to make the magic work.


So how does this apply to defending oneself on the Astral Plane? One of the first exercises I teach my students is the White Light Shield. To put it simply, you surround yourself with an aura of pure white light and say to yourself:
This light is my shield. This light is my Will. Nothing can penetrate this shield. Nothing can harm me.
The student repeats this mantra until it becomes part of them and they believe it with all their heart and soul. The student next practices how to summon the White Light Shield until it becomes a reflex and they can literally summon it at will. This exercise is also a good way to teach the basics of the Witches' Pyramid.

arrow While learning the above exercise, the student also learns how to create and summon objects in the Astral Plane. With practice, the student learns how to create shields, swords, and other weapons from the essence of the Astral Plane, giving them power through the use of their Will.
These objects become tools, weapons, and defenses on the Astral Plane.

arrow Once one learns how to communicate with the inhabitants of the spirit realms, one can befriend spirits or establish pacts with them.
Although such relationships can be quite valuable to the magician, one must take care that the spirit entities do not take advantage of you.
In addition to fighting for you, spirits can give you gifts or create objects that grant you surprising power over the Astral Realm and its inhabitants; for example, in Svartalfheim I befriended a Dwarf who crafted a shirt of fine chainmail similar to that worn by the Elves in Lord of the Rings, and on the few occasions where hostile entities have broken through my spiritual defenses, this armor has literally saved my life.

arrow By far the most powerful form of protection one can have in the Astral Plane is knowledge; for example, I am well-versed in the Runes of the Elder Futhark, and through their use I can manipulate the substance of the Astral Plane as well as that of the Nine Worlds. The Runes can also be used in magical attack and defense, and they have saved me a number of times from hostile spirit entities.

Just keep in mind that the your ability to manipulate the Astral Plane is limited by your understanding of the Witches' Pyramid; for example, a magician encountering a Fire Giant on its home plane of Muspellheim is better off trying to outsmart the Giant than battle it, as a Fire Giant has as great or greater a Will than a mortal magician and considerable knowledge of how to manipulate the forces on its home plane. On the other hand, Giants are not much known for their imagination, so one could possibly come up with a form of magical attack for which the Giant is unprepared.
I wouldn't try it, though!
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:59 am
godhi
arrow The most simple method is through the use of the Witches' Pyramid, which is one of the most basic principles in magic.
As much as I appreciate your visitation to my thread, there are several things in your response that I do not agree with. Firstly, I can understand the concept of the "Witch's Pyramid" as being helpful, but that is undoubtedly not the way I practise. In fact, just the assertion that it is the most simple method is fallacious as it then goes on to assert its lack of simplicity.

Quote:
FAITH: You must believe in yourself, your Gods, and your magic;
IMAGINATION: You must be able to visualize your wants and needs;
KNOWLEDGE: You must know the laws and principles of magic;
WILLPOWER: You must have the strength of Will to make the magic work.
I very much agree with these four cornerstones of a working. In fact, I respect how succinctly you have stated them. However, I would profess that nothing is ever so wonderfully simple. Each aspect of this simplistic form is in its own way infinitely complicated. To break it down to four words is very nice to use as a guideline in study to direct the practitioner, but each one individually is infinitely complicated. And perhaps one of the largest aspects you are missing is PRACTISE. All the knowledge, imagination, faith and willpower will get you nowhere if you do not use it. Also RESPECT is of intimate importance when dealing with spirits. In fact, breaking it down to four groups undermines the complexity of what one is actually attempting. Why not just study the aspects as a whole as opposed to the segregation of the different concepts, or divide it up into infinite complexity?

Myself, I have never so much compartmentalised my path.

Quote:
So how does this apply to defending oneself on the Astral Plane? One of the first exercises I teach my students is the White Light Shield. To put it simply, you surround yourself with an aura of pure white light and say to yourself:
This light is my shield. This light is my Will. Nothing can penetrate this shield. Nothing can harm me.
The student repeats this mantra until it becomes part of them and they believe it with all their heart and soul. The student next practices how to summon the White Light Shield until it becomes a reflex and they can literally summon it at will. This exercise is also a good way to teach the basics of the Witches' Pyramid.
Interesting. I actually use a very similar variant on the same structure. I use no words, though. Words are superfluous when you already know you cannot be harmed. The most useful application of this is actually in this reality, I find. The astral is often easy enough to manipulate to make such fireworks unnecessary. Plus you have the added possibility of attracting unwanted attention by such a dominant expression of power.

Quote:
arrow While learning the above exercise, the student also learns how to create and summon objects in the Astral Plane. With practice, the student learns how to create shields, swords, and other weapons from the essence of the Astral Plane, giving them power through the use of their Will.
These objects become tools, weapons, and defenses on the Astral Plane.
But why weapons? Why tools or "physical" defences? The Astral is not a physical place. Such physical things are unneccesary when the universe conforms to your will. Granted, I have used swords. And wings, shields etc. But they merely act as crutches and symbols for what you are accomplishing. It is just as effective to discreate an entity by will than by a sword. It's just easier one way than the other. wink

Quote:
arrow Once one learns how to communicate with the inhabitants of the spirit realms, one can befriend spirits or establish pacts with them.
Although such relationships can be quite valuable to the magician, one must take care that the spirit entities do not take advantage of you.
In addition to fighting for you, spirits can give you gifts or create objects that grant you surprising power over the Astral Realm and its inhabitants; for example, in Svartalfheim I befriended a Dwarf who crafted a shirt of fine chainmail similar to that worn by the Elves in Lord of the Rings, and on the few occasions where hostile entities have broken through my spiritual defenses, this armor has literally saved my life.
I very much agree with your explanation here. Much of my practise revolves around the interaction and bargaining with spirits. I have made some pacts, done some favours and have always been well rewarded for my efforts. There are also the situations in which one has to be wary and prepared for deceit. Hell, they're not exactly going to be straightforward with you all the time.

A good example of this was a certain "wish-stone" I received for the assistance of a spirit in a certain territory. It was green, and I used it for the culmination of a wish that worked splendidly. These things are always precious. I keep safe everything that has been given to me in the Astral. Many of these things come in very, very handy.

Quote:
arrow By far the most powerful form of protection one can have in the Astral Plane is knowledge; for example, I am well-versed in the Runes of the Elder Futhark, and through their use I can manipulate the substance of the Astral Plane as well as that of the Nine Worlds. The Runes can also be used in magical attack and defense, and they have saved me a number of times from hostile spirit entities.
Never really got into Runes myself. I have a set of personal ones, but rarely (if ever) use them in the Astral. I can see their efficacy when used like that, but I far prefer using the strength of my own will as opposed to working through symbols.

Also, Futhark Runes never really "spoke" to me, for obvious reasons.

Quote:
Just keep in mind that the your ability to manipulate the Astral Plane is limited by your understanding of the Witches' Pyramid; for example, a magician encountering a Fire Giant on its home plane of Muspellheim is better off trying to outsmart the Giant than battle it, as a Fire Giant has as great or greater a Will than a mortal magician and considerable knowledge of how to manipulate the forces on its home plane. On the other hand, Giants are not much known for their imagination, so one could possibly come up with a form of magical attack for which the Giant is unprepared.
I wouldn't try it, though!
Heh. That's very interesting, because I see much the same effects with spirits, even though we do not travel the same Tree. Spirits in their own territories will always have their unique methods of interaction, often using the powers of their surroundings to their advantage. Not to mention that each spirit has its individual strengths and weaknesses. There are some you simply do not mess with, and others can be cajoled. Still others can be dominated to your will. It all depends on how you interact with them. Gifts and favours will sometimes work. Sometimes they won't. You can't please everyone the same way. You just do what you need to to get what you want.

Best example I can think of is a Minotaur in a Labyrinth. It uses its surroundings to its advantage; using your own fear and helplessness to beat you. You don't know where you are, and (more importantly) you don't know where it is. However, you can always find ways of interacting with it to bring the situation to your advantage...  

Pelta


godhi

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:15 am
Pelta
godhi
arrow The most simple method is through the use of the Witches' Pyramid, which is one of the most basic principles in magic.
As much as I appreciate your visitation to my thread, there are several things in your response that I do not agree with. Firstly, I can understand the concept of the "Witch's Pyramid" as being helpful, but that is undoubtedly not the way I practise. In fact, just the assertion that it is the most simple method is fallacious as it then goes on to assert its lack of simplicity.

Quote:
FAITH: You must believe in yourself, your Gods, and your magic;
IMAGINATION: You must be able to visualize your wants and needs;
KNOWLEDGE: You must know the laws and principles of magic;
WILLPOWER: You must have the strength of Will to make the magic work.
I very much agree with these four cornerstones of a working. In fact, I respect how succinctly you have stated them. However, I would profess that nothing is ever so wonderfully simple. Each aspect of this simplistic form is in its own way infinitely complicated. To break it down to four words is very nice to use as a guideline in study to direct the practitioner, but each one individually is infinitely complicated. And perhaps one of the largest aspects you are missing is PRACTISE. All the knowledge, imagination, faith and willpower will get you nowhere if you do not use it. Also RESPECT is of intimate importance when dealing with spirits. In fact, breaking it down to four groups undermines the complexity of what one is actually attempting. Why not just study the aspects as a whole as opposed to the segregation of the different concepts, or divide it up into infinite complexity?

Myself, I have never so much compartmentalised my path.


My apologies for using such a simplistic explanation for the operation of magical workings, but my desire was to help out the novice as well as the experienced magician on this thread. Of course, one of the reasons why people make mistakes with magic is that on the surface it does appear to be simple while the process itself (as you pointed out) is actually quite complex. Sorry if I offended you.
PRACTICE is indeed important; as the old saying goes, practice makes perfect. Of course, practice is important if you want to succeed in anything, including magic.
RESPECT was something I addressed later in my posting, as a surprising number of spirit entities are willing to be your friend if you show them a little kindness, honesty, and respect. In fact, a little goes a long way, as most spirits I've encountered enjoy the company of humans and are quite willing to help you so long as you're willing to return the favor sometime.

As far as the creation and use of objects on the astral plane, I've found that most people are better able to concentrate upon the matter at hand when they can visualize a physical object--especially when confronting a hostile spirit entity. Like yourself, I've reached the level of expertise where I don't need such items, but there are certain levels of reality where the laws of metaphysics favor the use of such objects. It all depends on the circumstances.
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:20 am
godhi
My apologies for using such a simplistic explanation for the operation of magical workings, but my desire was to help out the novice as well as the experienced magician on this thread. Of course, one of the reasons why people make mistakes with magic is that on the surface it does appear to be simple while the process itself (as you pointed out) is actually quite complex. Sorry if I offended you.
No offense taken. biggrin I like discussing these things.

Quote:
RESPECT was something I addressed later in my posting, as a surprising number of spirit entities are willing to be your friend if you show them a little kindness, honesty, and respect. In fact, a little goes a long way, as most spirits I've encountered enjoy the company of humans and are quite willing to help you so long as you're willing to return the favor sometime.
There are also quite a few spirits who won't. They can be awful difficult sometimes; it depends on how you interact with them. Like many humans, actually. Just more ethereal and with slightly different rules of interaction.

Quote:
As far as the creation and use of objects on the astral plane, I've found that most people are better able to concentrate upon the matter at hand when they can visualize a physical object--especially when confronting a hostile spirit entity. Like yourself, I've reached the level of expertise where I don't need such items, but there are certain levels of reality where the laws of metaphysics favor the use of such objects. It all depends on the circumstances.
I find the use of objects is merely a stepping-stone to not using them. Like wings. When one wants to fly, one thinks you need to have wings. Then when you have become familiar with the feeling of flight it becomes easier and you realise you don't need wings. Then you realise how ridiculous the concept is of needing to fly, so you just go. It's all a process. I find the preliminary steps are for getting accustomed to the usage of it, then a level of familiarity is reached where you don't need the crutches. Thus why practise is utterly essential.

It also depends where you are on the Tree. Some aspects will have different effects with entities in different places. You have to be aware of your surroundings and how to interact with them. Some spirits and places impose their own rules...  

Pelta


godhi

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:55 am
Pelta

It also depends where you are on the Tree. Some aspects will have different effects with entities in different places. You have to be aware of your surroundings and how to interact with them. Some spirits and places impose their own rules...


My point exactly. There are astral realms where the laws of metaphysics favor the use of spirit objects, and more than a few spirits I've encountered seem to react more favorably to those who carry them.
I have an interesting question for you regarding spirits: do you believe that spirits have a definite form, or are the shapes we encounter them in determined by our own perceptions?
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:04 am
godhi
I have an interesting question for you regarding spirits: do you believe that spirits have a definite form, or are the shapes we encounter them in determined by our own perceptions?
Ooh... Now that is an interesting question. Honestly, I'm not sure. The Astral is extremely influenced by perceptions and expectations. Thus why unstable people often find it much more dangerous to travel. But many spirits have a greater degree of autonomy...

At the risk of opening a can of worms, I see three possible answers to this question.

Firstly, that spirits take the form most suitable to them with no outside interference.

Secondly, that spirits take the form that will most encourage the mode of interaction they desire.

Thirdly, that the shape of the spirit is determined by the perceptions of the individual encountering it.

Honestly, I do not have an answer to this question. I also cannot really think of a way that a definite answer could be found. confused  

Pelta


godhi

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:04 am
Pelta
godhi
I have an interesting question for you regarding spirits: do you believe that spirits have a definite form, or are the shapes we encounter them in determined by our own perceptions?
Ooh... Now that is an interesting question. Honestly, I'm not sure. The Astral is extremely influenced by perceptions and expectations. Thus why unstable people often find it much more dangerous to travel. But many spirits have a greater degree of autonomy...

At the risk of opening a can of worms, I see three possible answers to this question.

Firstly, that spirits take the form most suitable to them with no outside interference.

Secondly, that spirits take the form that will most encourage the mode of interaction they desire.

Thirdly, that the shape of the spirit is determined by the perceptions of the individual encountering it.

Honestly, I do not have an answer to this question. I also cannot really think of a way that a definite answer could be found. confused


Curiously enough, I believe the answer could be "all of the above."
Case in point:
As a practitioner of shamanic magic, I am often approached out of the blue by spirits who are curious about me. One day I was sitting at my computer and allowing my mind to wander when I encountered a spirit who claimed to be a techno-elemental; although I knew of urban elementals, the idea of a computer elemental was a new concept and I initiated contact with her.
Much to my surprise, the avatar she chose was that of a certain mouse from a Disney cartoon series (albeit a bit more realistic in appearance) and chose the name of Gadget. She found this quite amusing and noticing my befuddled reaction decided to help me with my word processor, which at the time was a used Macintosh SE with a habit of crashing or freezing when you least expected it. Gadget has become one of my best friends among the spirits and has the ability to make programs work better, and since calling upon her my software is less prone to crashing.
She also has a quirky sense of humor: a few years after we met, I noticed that her tail ended in a USB cable.
When I asked her about that, she replied, "Of course, silly! I'm a computer mouse!"

Believe it or not, I'm not making this up. I actually know a spirit who can affect computer software--although she much prefers Macintosh over PC.
(this is probably because I was using a Macintosh computer when I first encountered her)
The reason why I mentioned this is that from my experiences, some spirits prefer to assume forms taken from your subconscious mind; this serves two functions:
As you mentioned above, "spirits take the form that will most encourage the mode of interaction they desire." Several friends of mine at the time were Disney fanatics and collected toys and miniatures of the characters, and one of the characters I liked was Gadget--so it makes perfect sense that she would assume such a form.
Second, once you establish contact with a spirit, their name and avatar give you a means of contacting them, i.e. all you have to do is visualize the spirit and repeat their name, and the spirit will hear you.
This can be a bad thing if the spirit is hostile, however...

One last comment on this post: I believe that the spirit realms are not static, but are molded and shaped by the collective consciousness of humanity. It stands to reason that because we put so much energy into creating new things and ideas that these concepts would give birth to new types of spirits--so a computer elemental (as she calls herself) is not that unreasonable a concept. It's just a logical extension of Animism.
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:41 am
Pelta
Quote:
FAITH: You must believe in yourself, your Gods, and your magic;
IMAGINATION: You must be able to visualize your wants and needs;
KNOWLEDGE: You must know the laws and principles of magic;
WILLPOWER: You must have the strength of Will to make the magic work.
I very much agree with these four cornerstones of a working. In fact, I respect how succinctly you have stated them.

I don't. On either case.
Faith, imagination, knowledge, willpower, focus, brute strength, connection to the land you work with, spiritual presence, health (mental and physical), emotional state of being and a whole host of other factors  

CuAnnan

Dapper Genius

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Pelta

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:42 am
Cuchullain
Pelta
Quote:
FAITH: You must believe in yourself, your Gods, and your magic;
IMAGINATION: You must be able to visualize your wants and needs;
KNOWLEDGE: You must know the laws and principles of magic;
WILLPOWER: You must have the strength of Will to make the magic work.
I very much agree with these four cornerstones of a working. In fact, I respect how succinctly you have stated them.

I don't. On either case.
Faith, imagination, knowledge, willpower, focus, brute strength, connection to the land you work with, spiritual presence, health (mental and physical), emotional state of being and a whole host of other factors
Indeed. There is a lot more to any working than just four aspects.

godhi
I actually know a spirit who can affect computer software
It's not that uncommon. I created a thoughtform in my computer that's pretty much the only thing that keeps it turning on in the mornings... I have yet to encounter a techno-spirit, but have come across public transport spirits and phone spirits before. Technically, if a manmade house can be inhabited by a spirit, why not a manmade phone or computer? This was one of the subjects I hoped would come up in this thread.

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I believe that the spirit realms are not static, but are molded and shaped by the collective consciousness of humanity.
No, they are not static, but I would be loath to say they are shaped by humanity. I believe they have a greater level of autonomy than that. I suggest "influenced" might be a better word...

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It stands to reason that because we put so much energy into creating new things and ideas that these concepts would give birth to new types of spirits

I have yet to be enlightened as to how spirits come into being, and therefore will reserve judgment on this statement. I would suggest it may be a little more complicated than that.  
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