Imagine "your" perfect ship....

[Maddy]

Steel Sterling

So, as a "rule of thumb", let's "guesstimate" that we can maintain full
operations on the ship with a crew complement of 100 (over 3x that of a
skeleton crew.) This allows you to add a few engineers, science officers
and medical officers to that total, and still assign a LOT of security.
Figure 4 more engineers, 4 more science officers, and 4 more medical
officers, each primarily for investigation, and that leaves you with 38
vacancies, and you can fill, say, 25 of those with Security, and leave the
remaining 13 as court officers, leaving you with a ship's complement of
150, well below the maximum safe personnel capacity. You could easily
add to the Security further.

I like that. smile  

[Maddy]

Steel Sterling

And, you won't need to devise the security measures for computer use,
other than to say there's plenty of them. smile

My thinking was, that during a hearing or trial, access to a "laptop" would
be fine, but access from that "laptop" to the main computer (or ANY
computer) would be locked out, and the main computer could only be
accessed with the joint authorization of the JAG and bailiff giving voice
authorization. (No code-voice recognition.)

I really don't want to think about the security measures... the idea that the same computer runs the ship, is needed for everything in their daily life, will be the one in which forensic analysis will be done and results saved, will be the one in which both sides will be storing data, will also be used by court officers, etc, it's giving me nightmares just by trying to imagine it.
And we know the gel packs can be sick.
*shudders*
I don't want to be in charge of security in that ship.  

[Steel Sterling]

Maddy

Steel Sterling

I have the impression that courts involve a lot of rooms to confer, either
formally or informally. (I've wandered around a few courthouses before.)
I was thinking the Captain's Ready Room should be used as designed,
specifically for ship's business. The idea of another room for sensitive,
unofficial discussions made sense to me.

Yes, well, but this is not a normal courthouse as we know them... Both the prosecutor and the defence will have their own quarters, that even if they are not the larger quarters in the ship, they still have a living-room area they could use. Even more if I assign them both another room they could use as an office. As for the Judges, they can use the conference room to one side of the bridge, the courtroom when not in session, their own quarters...

The "conference room to one side of the bridge" is the captain's ready
room. I'm recommending that be reseved for the captain. (You, of course,
can say "no", since it's your ship.) Good point about needing less
conference space than standard courthouses, though.

Quote:

They will be all living in the same ship. It's not as if they can't go knock on each others doors if they need to talk. Or schedule a meeting in the mess hall or one of the holodecks if needed be.

True, if possibly excessive. But there ARE meeting-rooms in Intrepids
anyway, even if they're small ones here and there for departments.
(Only Novas don't have the space for those.) I really didn't think about
that-I was focusing on digging up "official" stuff.

Quote:

Quote:

Going by the standards that an Intrepid-class ship's facilities are smaller,
I'd say the point of Voyager assigning a SECONDARY brig at all was
because the primary one is small. I figure Voyager can get by with those,
but you MIGHT need a bit more space in a pinch. So, I recommend one
of those cargo bays (say, the one on Deck 5) be converted to a TERTIARY
brig, with larger numbers of very small cells, with a few cells set aside
for maximum security prisoners-with everything triple reinforced, and
physical barriers in addition to the forcefields, which would also have
their own emergency backup power and redundancies. My rationale for
the maximum security, I think you can already see. If someone's VERY
dangerous, you want someplace to secure them confidently. As for the
rest, I'm thinking that if you need to use more cells than the other 2
little brigs have, you'll have a LOT of prisoners, which means you'll need
a lot of smaller cells for use in a pinch.

For that matter, I'd expect the Primary and Secondary Brigs would be
redesigned and reinforced for commonsense reasons, including a
physical barrier in case the forcefield is disrupted.

Very sensible idea. Cargo bay on deck 5 sounds good.

I'll tell the engineers to start reinforcing those sections now. wink

Quote:

Quote:

Similarly, if offices are needed for the Prosecution and Defense, they could
be placed in the OTHER cargo bay that's unassigned, say, the one on
Deck 4. Then again, I think that's overkill-I think there should be 2 rooms
already set up SOMEWHERE, not adjacent to each other, that could easily
be used. I mean, they just need regular offices, right?

They need a room with a desk, access to a computer (to have the info about the case and their library at hand) and for it to be secured enough. So I think some room from the personnel quarters can be transformed to an office for that matter.

Good point. They can probably be given quarters that are either larger,
senior officer suites, or quarters adjacent to a small meeting-room,
which should more than suit their needs, since computer access will
remove the need for physical libraries.

Quote:

Quote:

That should still leave you with an entire cargo bay to play with.
There's lots of possibilities there.

I don't need to fill out the ship until there's no free space anywhere... They may find the need for it afterwards once the ship is already in a mission... after all, you never know when the evidence you need to analysed would be huge and won't fit in a normal lab.

Good point.
You have space for emergencies.  

[Steel Sterling]

Maddy

Steel Sterling

And, you won't need to devise the security measures for computer use,
other than to say there's plenty of them. smile

My thinking was, that during a hearing or trial, access to a "laptop" would
be fine, but access from that "laptop" to the main computer (or ANY
computer) would be locked out, and the main computer could only be
accessed with the joint authorization of the JAG and bailiff giving voice
authorization. (No code-voice recognition.)

I really don't want to think about the security measures... the idea that the same computer runs the ship, is needed for everything in their daily life, will be the one in which forensic analysis will be done and results saved, will be the one in which both sides will be storing data, will also be used by court officers, etc, it's giving me nightmares just by trying to imagine it.
And we know the gel packs can be sick.
*shudders*
I don't want to be in charge of security in that ship.

I expect, given the sensitive nature of the function, that there will be
separate databases secured for each side, for forensic analysis,
and for the court itself. They may be entirely separate computers,
and I expect multiple checks on clearance-voice, retina scan, code, etc.
Even WHERE they can be accessed from can be limited to certain areas.

This IS "space opera", so we don't have to OVERthink realism here.  

[Maddy]

Steel Sterling

The "conference room to one side of the bridge" is the captain's ready
room. I'm recommending that be reseved for the captain. (You, of course,
can say "no", since it's your ship.) Good point about needing less
conference space than standard courthouses, though.

I accept the recommendation. wink

Quote:

I'll tell the engineers to start reinforcing those sections now. wink

Are you acting as First Officer? confused Or just in charge of the modifications?

Quote:

Good point. They can probably be given quarters that are either larger,
senior officer suites, or quarters adjacent to a small meeting-room,
which should more than suit their needs, since computer access will
remove the need for physical libraries.

Good idea. smile  

[Maddy]

Steel Sterling

Maddy

Steel Sterling

And, you won't need to devise the security measures for computer use,
other than to say there's plenty of them. smile

My thinking was, that during a hearing or trial, access to a "laptop" would
be fine, but access from that "laptop" to the main computer (or ANY
computer) would be locked out, and the main computer could only be
accessed with the joint authorization of the JAG and bailiff giving voice
authorization. (No code-voice recognition.)

I really don't want to think about the security measures... the idea that the same computer runs the ship, is needed for everything in their daily life, will be the one in which forensic analysis will be done and results saved, will be the one in which both sides will be storing data, will also be used by court officers, etc, it's giving me nightmares just by trying to imagine it.
And we know the gel packs can be sick.
*shudders*
I don't want to be in charge of security in that ship.

I expect, given the sensitive nature of the function, that there will be
separate databases secured for each side, for forensic analysis,
and for the court itself. They may be entirely separate computers,
and I expect multiple checks on clearance-voice, retina scan, code, etc.
Even WHERE they can be accessed from can be limited to certain areas.

This IS "space opera", so we don't have to OVERthink realism here.

You're asking me not to overthink something? I don't know how to not do it! sweatdrop  

[Steel Sterling]

Maddy

Steel Sterling

The "conference room to one side of the bridge" is the captain's ready
room. I'm recommending that be reseved for the captain. (You, of course,
can say "no", since it's your ship.) Good point about needing less
conference space than standard courthouses, though.

I accept the recommendation. wink

Quote:

I'll tell the engineers to start reinforcing those sections now. wink

Are you acting as First Officer? confused Or just in charge of the modifications?

Quote:

Good point. They can probably be given quarters that are either larger,
senior officer suites, or quarters adjacent to a small meeting-room,
which should more than suit their needs, since computer access will
remove the need for physical libraries.

Good idea. smile

For purposes of the thread, I'm acting as supervisor of the engineering
teams handling the modifications.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I can work out what CAN work, and how
to make something work within the capabilities of the ships, but, like
Scotty, "Ah cannot change the laws of physics!"

As to crew, that's entirely up to you. I was hoping you'd have someplace
for me...  

[Steel Sterling]

BTW, I think you missed this post...

Steel Sterling

One non-canon source-which I'll accept for discussion's sake-is that 100% of
operations on an Intrepid-class on a sustainable basis (all it needs for full
regular usage) is 125. That means 25-26 of the standard crew can be
replaced-by Security, JAG VIPs and so on, and not exceed the 150-151
number for STANDARD ship's complement.

I can't find a consistent reference for MAXIMUM crew, or even an inconsistent
ballpark-figure. I'd say, offhand, that another dozen people could probably
be fit in without cramping anyone for space or making allowances. More than
that might require converting more unspecialized space to quarters.

Since this ship is not a long-range exploration ship, it doesn't have the
pressing need to carry supplies or convert discovered raw materials into
supplies like Voyager did. So, if your ship is about even with Voyager for
cargo space (which it is, bare minimum), it's in good shape for supplies.

That means the ship can achieve flight and act in an emergency with a
skeleton crew of 30-40, but needs a crew of 125 to effectively act on a
permanent basis and operate at 100% efficiency.

That leaves 26 surplus crew for a crew of 151. That's where the JAG
specialists and extra Security go. Then you can add BEYOND that for more
security and personnel as needed, past the "normal ship's complement."  

[Maddy]

Steel Sterling

Maddy

Steel Sterling

The "conference room to one side of the bridge" is the captain's ready
room. I'm recommending that be reseved for the captain. (You, of course,
can say "no", since it's your ship.) Good point about needing less
conference space than standard courthouses, though.

I accept the recommendation. wink

Quote:

I'll tell the engineers to start reinforcing those sections now. wink

Are you acting as First Officer? confused Or just in charge of the modifications?

Quote:

Good point. They can probably be given quarters that are either larger,
senior officer suites, or quarters adjacent to a small meeting-room,
which should more than suit their needs, since computer access will
remove the need for physical libraries.

Good idea. smile

For purposes of the thread, I'm acting as supervisor of the engineering
teams handling the modifications.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I can work out what CAN work, and how
to make something work within the capabilities of the ships, but, like
Scotty, "Ah cannot change the laws of physics!"

As to crew, that's entirely up to you. I was hoping you'd have someplace
for me...

Of course there's a place in that ship for you. We just have to figure out what that could be. wink  

[Maddy]

Steel Sterling

BTW, I think you missed this post...

Steel Sterling

One non-canon source-which I'll accept for discussion's sake-is that 100% of
operations on an Intrepid-class on a sustainable basis (all it needs for full
regular usage) is 125. That means 25-26 of the standard crew can be
replaced-by Security, JAG VIPs and so on, and not exceed the 150-151
number for STANDARD ship's complement.

I can't find a consistent reference for MAXIMUM crew, or even an inconsistent
ballpark-figure. I'd say, offhand, that another dozen people could probably
be fit in without cramping anyone for space or making allowances. More than
that might require converting more unspecialized space to quarters.

Since this ship is not a long-range exploration ship, it doesn't have the
pressing need to carry supplies or convert discovered raw materials into
supplies like Voyager did. So, if your ship is about even with Voyager for
cargo space (which it is, bare minimum), it's in good shape for supplies.

That means the ship can achieve flight and act in an emergency with a
skeleton crew of 30-40, but needs a crew of 125 to effectively act on a
permanent basis and operate at 100% efficiency.

That leaves 26 surplus crew for a crew of 151. That's where the JAG
specialists and extra Security go. Then you can add BEYOND that for more
security and personnel as needed, past the "normal ship's complement."

So...
125 personnel in basic ship operations.

That leaves me some crew to assign to a special Forensic Department...
5 Engineers
6 Science officers specialised in different disciplines.
3 Doctors/coroners
2 Profilers (I don't know if there's such a thing in the ST universe, but I need them)

10 Security personnel.


And then, there will be the JAG officers assigned to the case... Judge, Prosecutor, Defence attorney... what else? (sorry, I don't remember ST rules on personnel assigned to a trial).  

[Steel Sterling]

Maddy

Steel Sterling

That means the ship can achieve flight and act in an emergency with a
skeleton crew of 30-40, but needs a crew of 125 to effectively act on a
permanent basis and operate at 100% efficiency.

That leaves 26 surplus crew for a crew of 151. That's where the JAG
specialists and extra Security go. Then you can add BEYOND that for more
security and personnel as needed, past the "normal ship's complement."

So...
125 personnel in basic ship operations.

That leaves me some crew to assign to a special Forensic Department...
5 Engineers
6 Science officers specialised in different disciplines.
3 Doctors/coroners
2 Profilers (I don't know if there's such a thing in the ST universe, but I need them)

10 Security personnel.


And then, there will be the JAG officers assigned to the case... Judge, Prosecutor, Defence attorney... what else? (sorry, I don't remember ST rules on personnel assigned to a trial).

I think the Profilers might come from IAD, Internal Affairs Division.
They're usually the ones that get tagged to look into and investigate
possible abuses by officers in the Police and so on. In Starfleet, they
are a division under Intelligence, and ensure official secrets aren't in
danger, but I expect they do this in the process of a full investigation.
(How else can you form a conclusion?)

I expect the 10 additional Security are specialized in Corrections, and are
prepared to act to confine dangerous prisoners at any time, or handle
escape attempts by same, or attempts to break them out.
(They are EXPECTED to perform better than the average "redshirt" with
no full name. smile )

======
for a board of inquiry-which is our best determinant other than the flag
officers sitting in a Court Martial (which seems to be a board of inquiry
with a jury of flag officers who render a formal verdict), possibly our
best example was "Measure of a Man." One JAG officer sat in judgement,
and a minimum of one senior officer each was assigned to act as the
Prosecution and as the Defense. (In this case, Riker and Picard.)

If you're acting as the Senior JAG officer for the board, then you'd sit as
"Judge", with other JAG officers (minimum of 1 each) acting as the
Prosecution and Defense. I imagine you'll want more than 2 officers able
to handle those roles.
=======
Hm.
Studying the episode, the board of inquiry was, for all practical purposes,
a trial in a military court.

"Your Honor, a court room is a crucible. In it we burn away irrelevancies until we are left with a pure product: the truth, for all time."

The wording of the JAG officer makes this clear when she calls this a
"CASE."

"It sits there looking at me, and I don't know what it is. This case has dealt with metaphysics, with questions best left to saints and philosophers. I am neither competent nor qualified to answer those. I've got to make a ruling, to try to speak to the future. Is Data a machine? Yes. Is he the property of Starfleet? No. We have all been dancing around the basic issue. Does Data have a soul? I don't know that he has. I don't know that I have! But I have got to give him the freedom to explore that question himself. It is the ruling of this court that Lieutenant Commander Data has the freedom to choose."

"This CASE..."
"I've got to make a RULING..."
"It is the ruling of this COURT..."


Short of a full Court-Martial are a lot of cases, apparently, for a military
court, just as family courts and civil courts cover many things not going to
a federal trial.

This ship seems able to handle full investigations, and all legal internal
matters for Starfleet officers and crew, up to and including all aspects of
a Court Martial-except the full sitting of flag officers-unless 3 flag officers
really ARE assigned to this ship. It's pretty versatile in a legal sense.  

[Maddy]

So, short of a court-martial the ship is prepared to deal with anything legal related.

When I said Profilers I meant specifically people trained to deal with the psychological aspect of the case. Criminalistics deals with the What, Who, When, How... the material and logical part of the investigation... I need someone to deal with the "why"... a kind of counsellor, but applied to criminal investigation. (I may have used the wrong word, tho)

Yep, the 10 additional Security would be specialized personnel, not common "redshirt" I can't have disposable crew in this ship. rofl

So I'll be the judge, with you able to act as a second judge to step in in my place if necessary.
And let's say a JAG crew of 6 to act as needed (Prosecution or Defence).


------------------------------------
I think Riker would have loved this idea. He loathed trying to convince anyone that Data was a machine.  

[Steel Sterling]

Maddy

So, short of a court-martial the ship is prepared to deal with anything legal related.

When I said Profilers I meant specifically people trained to deal with the psychological aspect of the case. Criminalistics deals with the What, Who, When, How... the material and logical part of the investigation... I need someone to deal with the "why"... a kind of counsellor, but applied to criminal investigation. (I may have used the wrong word, tho)

A Criminal Psychologist, a specialist in the study of the criminal mind,
why people commit crimes.
If this was on a show, there'd be a certain amount of humor at some
point about the only Psychologists on the ship being experts in criminal
behavior and not general counselling. smile

Quote:

Yep, the 10 additional Security would be specialized personnel, not common "redshirt" I can't have disposable crew in this ship. rofl

So I'll be the judge, with you able to act as a second judge to step in in my place if necessary.
And let's say a JAG crew of 6 to act as needed (Prosecution or Defence).


------------------------------------
I think Riker would have loved this idea. He loathed trying to convince anyone that Data was a machine.

Well, specifically,
they NEEDED more JAG in that Starbase at that moment. The designation
of this kind of ship might be in response to incidents like that, where
non-JAG officers were pressed into JAG duty.

Personally, based on all the legal ways to tangle up the case, I think she
just wanted to make Picard jump through hoops.
Starfleet had accepted Data as a candidate to the Academy, and as an
officer for over 20 years, with numerous postings, commendations, and
RANKS, even rising to the position of passing the command exam,
and after that, they can RETROACTIVELY remove his citizenship and his
status as a person? (He must have been a citizen to be an officer.)

Besides, Data was NEVER "Starfleet's property." He belonged to Dr Soong
if ANYONE. All Starfleet did was FIND him. If they had found a human
in a stasis tube lying next to Data, would the person have become
"Starfleet property" TOO?

mrgreen  

[Steel Sterling]

*does some checking*
A Forensic Psychologist, actually, is one who specializes in work with the
legal system.

An Investigative Psychologist is one who covers the fields of investigation,
and covers more ground than a profiler.

You're calling for two-so one of each might be best. wink  

[Maddy]

Steel Sterling

If this was on a show, there'd be a certain amount of humor at some
point about the only Psychologists on the ship being experts in criminal
behavior and not general counselling. smile

You mean you think I should have a counsellor too... mrgreen
It could probably be a good idea to have one. As long as there's room, we can still add some people not in the basic crew.