The Skaven

[WNxHotSoup]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Clan Eshin Army List, what should I improve on it? ((PS: I'm sticking with all skirmishers, so I won't take things like Storm Vermin or anything...))

Lord: Master Assassin: Weeping Blands, Bands of Strength, Warp Amulet, Smoke bombs

Heros: Assassin: Warpstone Throwing Stars/Brass Orb (Depending on my foes)

Sorcerer 1: Level 2, Warpscroll
Sorceror 2: Level 2, 2 Dispel Scrolls

Core: Night Runners x15
Night Runners x15
Night Runners x13
Night Runenrs x13
Rat Swarm x4

Special: Jezzails x4
Jezzails x4
Gutter Runners x10
Gutter Runners x10

The Gutter Runners have throwing stars and Poisoned attacks, and the Night Runners have additional hand weapons and Throwing Stars.

2 things i feel wrong with that list. Why have jazzails, they get outrun by your units anyway and get -1 for longer range, and with BS 3 thats not good. Never give night runners throwing stars unlesss your tryign desperatly to make points, they die way to fast to be any use. and always put 20 in a unit, otherwise your hidden assassins wipll die to qucikly. If your not playign iwth hidden assassains, you shouldnt be playing eshin. I suggest taking a Eshian Triad. it helps alot in the games. But mroe importantly. you didnt take enough assassins. Eshin should always have character slots filled up. and you only need 1 sorceror in 2k points, skitterleap isnt that useful. have another assasin instead, and take out the jezzails for more night runners. have no difference in unit sizes, enemies can tell the where your assassains are. I recomend marking each unit some how so you can write down where each assassain is and can prove it. Mine have a colored symbol on their backs to show which is which.  

[WNxHotSoup]

Daemon_King

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Daemon_King

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Daemon_King

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Actually, Brass Orb ignore Ward saves and basic saves. The only way to avoid its effects (Instant Death) Is to pass your initiative test...

Yeah, and Slann and other Lizardmen have low Initiatives, but they take a different test because they're cold blooded right?

Lizardmen are low-int, but in return get to roll 3d6 and pick the lowest two for Leadership.

Yeah, but why would you want to axe the Slann? I mean, isn't that more of a bad thing.

Considering said Slaan will most likely be over 400 points, and that was a 2K army I was suggesting it for, the enemy suddenly loses 2 Dispel Dice, 4 Powerdice, 400 Points of Lord, Hero, and Rare, along with part of its bodyguard. A good chunk of points taken away. Pluss, if that was Lord Kroak, you're now guarentied at least a draw...

You have to be careful when it comes to those Slann.

You really wont see lord Kroak in anythign less then 3.5k. If anyone uses him with less they will die to much of anything. A slaan and 20-30 temple guard cant do everything.

A screaming bell works well agaisnt slaan, no annoying dispell dice stopping you.

And it hurts the player even more if a slaan dies, thye lose or you gain, cant remember which, about 50-100 vic points for each generation it is.

Though, for the brass orb, unless you have a hidden assassain, the slaan will magic blast the crap out of the hero. And assassains have the best BS in scaven so its much more likely to hit. Though isnt that one use only? You have a 1-6 about chance to kill the slaan, then you have to get past those temple guards ot do anything.  

[WNxHotSoup]

Heres my Eshin List. Remember this is form storm of chaos and for 2000 points.


Lord: Master Assassain with weeping blade, warpstone amulet, warpstone charm.

Notes: Most people say warpstone amulet sucks cause you can die at the end, well if your master isnt dead or has onyl 1 wound left your not using him enough. Hes built to sktterleap into the backs of his sorcerors or big unit that cant touch him until he kills most of them, or go ahunting their poor poor lord. And since skaven can rufuse challenges withotu any bad things, i still get my attacks and all my other guys can attack the lords if hes with his squad.

Heros:
Assassain with Warpstone stars, smaoke bombs
Assassain with desolate blade, smoke bombs
Eshin Sorceror with 5 warpstone tokens

Character notes: i dont really like smoke bombs, just cant do anyhting else with the extra points so i have them. Warpstone stars are great for an assassain, he has BS 5, and with a unit if gutter runners, cna just go around desimating squads in shooting before they attack. Imagine standing and shootign with those.

Core:
20 Night Runners
20 Night Runners
20 Night Runners
20 Night Runners
20 Night Runners

Notes: All have extra hand weapon.

Special:
10 Gutter Runners with posion attacks/throwing stars

Rares: Eshin Triad with smoke bombs  

[Drachyench]

NightPredator11

Drachyench_The_Eternal

Clan Eshin Army List, what should I improve on it? ((PS: I'm sticking with all skirmishers, so I won't take things like Storm Vermin or anything...))

Lord: Master Assassin: Weeping Blands, Bands of Strength, Warp Amulet, Smoke bombs

Heros: Assassin: Warpstone Throwing Stars/Brass Orb (Depending on my foes)

Sorcerer 1: Level 2, Warpscroll
Sorceror 2: Level 2, 2 Dispel Scrolls

Core: Night Runners x15
Night Runners x15
Night Runners x13
Night Runenrs x13
Rat Swarm x4

Special: Jezzails x4
Jezzails x4
Gutter Runners x10
Gutter Runners x10

The Gutter Runners have throwing stars and Poisoned attacks, and the Night Runners have additional hand weapons and Throwing Stars.

2 things i feel wrong with that list. Why have jazzails, they get outrun by your units anyway and get -1 for longer range, and with BS 3 thats not good. Never give night runners throwing stars unlesss your tryign desperatly to make points, they die way to fast to be any use. and always put 20 in a unit, otherwise your hidden assassins wipll die to qucikly. If your not playign iwth hidden assassains, you shouldnt be playing eshin. I suggest taking a Eshian Triad. it helps alot in the games. But mroe importantly. you didnt take enough assassins. Eshin should always have character slots filled up. and you only need 1 sorceror in 2k points, skitterleap isnt that useful. have another assasin instead, and take out the jezzails for more night runners. have no difference in unit sizes, enemies can tell the where your assassains are. I recomend marking each unit some how so you can write down where each assassain is and can prove it. Mine have a colored symbol on their backs to show which is which.

Eshin triads are only good at sucking up firepower and the occassional wound. They neither negate flanks, have enough Unit Strength to get rear-or-flank bonus', and they get too little attacks to shift a combat in their favor, so I dislike them.

Jezzails are suppossed to be over-run. With 30' shooting, they can stand and shoot for a while. They'll also (Since the enemy will most likely head foward) have a 50-50 shot at seeing the enemy (8, 10, and misfire will allow them to see the enemy). Add the fact also that they're the only thing in the army that will kill knights...

Hidden assassins are nice, in good units though. I'll probably put them in gutter runners, simply because they'll reach combat earlier, plus the fact that Gutter Runners are a lot more likely to cause wounds on their own.

Gonna be using 20 strong units now.

Skitterleap is useful. Jump him into combat with an enemy wizard turn 1, and watch the enemies magic start crumbling fast. Also, I prefer to have at least 3 dispel dice in 2K point games, especially since EVERYONE in my GW (Except the dwarf players) make sure they have 2+ Mages on their side, at least.  

[WNxHotSoup]

Eshin Triads have there purpose. You have to use them well. Though i may try something else out. But, jezzails are not, by any means, the only thing that can stop knights. Warpstone stars work really well, my record is the max, 9 dieing in one turn. Or just horde with 2 attacks each, or gutter run them with poision attacks. Jezzails are especially bad in the storm of chaos list, with even a possiblity of not beign able ot shoot. This is bad, really bad, for shooting. SoC Eshin list is for hordes of skimish with manuvering the characters to the enemy kill important targets.

Gutter runners will reach combat at the same speed if they carry assassains, seeing hwo assassains cant go underground. YOu fill the night runners with everyhting but master assassins or warpstone star carrier. The ngiht runners are much more likely to make it, they are larger and not a elite unit, so will die early. They are good for goign on there own, and are a nice distraction for shootign if they dont make it. But adding the possibility of a assassain dieing with them, its jsut not good. To small for the purpose.

Well does ANYONE in your GW play SoC Eshin? Their stratigy is way different. Just get 1 assassain in and those mages will drop. Or tunnel gutter runners, both cause distractions and death. You only need 1 mage with eshin for 2k, and 1 for each 1k after.  

[Drachyench]

1) Only 1 character can use eshin throwing stars.
2) Only Hero/Lord Choice Bought Heros can take them, not Eshin Triads.
3) They may be used only ONCE (It states that in any ONE shooting phase you can use them).

Uh, you missed the 50% of the time, they WILL be able to shoot, more so if the enemy is stupid enough to move foward, ever.

Not in my GW. In my GW, if you aren't facing Dwarfs, every enemy army has at least 5 powerdice each turn, plus at least 1 bound spell, and usually that at around 1.5K point games. It's absurd.  

[WNxHotSoup]

All weapons that can only be used once say so in bold at the top of the weapon entry. When did i say traids could use them?

And Im not looking at the 50% they will, any unit that cant shoot at all 50% of the time is worthless. Jazzails are good in non-SoC Eshin, but not SoC Eshin.

So no one in your Gw plays Khorn? I find that odd, it being oddly popular. Well, you GW has a culture that can be good, can be bad. Do it if you like, but i dont suggest it.

Oh, why rat swarms? They are to slow, they wont make it into combat as fast, and numbers wont help, seeing how their purpose is tieing up units, and these units are aready fightign your night runners.  

[Drachyench]

NightPredator11

All weapons that can only be used once say so in bold at the top of the weapon entry. When did i say traids could use them?

And Im not looking at the 50% they will, any unit that cant shoot at all 50% of the time is worthless. Jazzails are good in non-SoC Eshin, but not SoC Eshin.

So no one in your Gw plays Khorn? I find that odd, it being oddly popular. Well, you GW has a culture that can be good, can be bad. Do it if you like, but i dont suggest it.

Oh, why rat swarms? They are to slow, they wont make it into combat as fast, and numbers wont help, seeing how their purpose is tieing up units, and these units are aready fightign your night runners.

Wallopa's One hit Wunda. Can only be used once, but Doesn't state that right under its cost, does it?

You hinted at a large amount of them thrown per turn.

And it states in any one shooting phase, you may decide to use Warpstone throwing stars. Meaning in only 1 shooting phase.

People at my GW who play khorne use their rares to take hireling mages.

M5, at least. They were just there as point fillers, originally. Probably going to replace them with another unit of Nightrunners or 2.  

[WNxHotSoup]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

NightPredator11

All weapons that can only be used once say so in bold at the top of the weapon entry. When did i say traids could use them?

And Im not looking at the 50% they will, any unit that cant shoot at all 50% of the time is worthless. Jazzails are good in non-SoC Eshin, but not SoC Eshin.

So no one in your Gw plays Khorn? I find that odd, it being oddly popular. Well, you GW has a culture that can be good, can be bad. Do it if you like, but i dont suggest it.

Oh, why rat swarms? They are to slow, they wont make it into combat as fast, and numbers wont help, seeing how their purpose is tieing up units, and these units are aready fightign your night runners.

Wallopa's One hit Wunda. Can only be used once, but Doesn't state that right under its cost, does it?

You hinted at a large amount of them thrown per turn.

And it states in any one shooting phase, you may decide to use Warpstone throwing stars. Meaning in only 1 shooting phase.

People at my GW who play khorne use their rares to take hireling mages.

M5, at least. They were just there as point fillers, originally. Probably going to replace them with another unit of Nightrunners or 2.

Umm, good points. I will debate this with my friends. Also, a single warpstone stars can kill 9 of anythign if good rolling by an assassain.

Your GW scares me just a tad. Khorn doesnt need magic, their getting upwards of 6 dispell dice a turn. Why would you buy mages when a squad of anyhting will do better? Dont go with the flow, try something new and see hwo it works, if not, buy a sacond mage.  

[Drachyench]

NightPredator11

Drachyench_The_Eternal

NightPredator11

All weapons that can only be used once say so in bold at the top of the weapon entry. When did i say traids could use them?

And Im not looking at the 50% they will, any unit that cant shoot at all 50% of the time is worthless. Jazzails are good in non-SoC Eshin, but not SoC Eshin.

So no one in your Gw plays Khorn? I find that odd, it being oddly popular. Well, you GW has a culture that can be good, can be bad. Do it if you like, but i dont suggest it.

Oh, why rat swarms? They are to slow, they wont make it into combat as fast, and numbers wont help, seeing how their purpose is tieing up units, and these units are aready fightign your night runners.

Wallopa's One hit Wunda. Can only be used once, but Doesn't state that right under its cost, does it?

You hinted at a large amount of them thrown per turn.

And it states in any one shooting phase, you may decide to use Warpstone throwing stars. Meaning in only 1 shooting phase.

People at my GW who play khorne use their rares to take hireling mages.

M5, at least. They were just there as point fillers, originally. Probably going to replace them with another unit of Nightrunners or 2.

Umm, good points. I will debate this with my friends. Also, a single warpstone stars can kill 9 of anythign if good rolling by an assassain.

Your GW scares me just a tad. Khorn doesnt need magic, their getting upwards of 6 dispell dice a turn. Why would you buy mages when a squad of anyhting will do better? Dont go with the flow, try something new and see hwo it works, if not, buy a sacond mage.

Warpstone throwing stars may only kill a max of 4 per turn (If used by a lord). The D3 is if it hits a MULTIWOUND model.  

[Dark-Kratios]

i just started skaven after buying a bunch used and i have no idea how the play fantasy or skaven. (i payed $35 for 60 clan rats, 10 jisals(rifle looking thingys) 15 gutter runners, 2 warplock engeneers, warcheif, 3 ratling guns, warp lightniong cannon and codex.) i want to use eshin so im considering converting the clanrats to night runners and the guttter runners with the claws into assassins and a master assassin. pm me with feedback please.  

[Drachyench]

kratios

i just started skaven after buying a bunch used and i have no idea how the play fantasy or skaven. (i payed $35 for 60 clan rats, 10 jisals(rifle looking thingys) 15 gutter runners, 2 warplock engeneers, warcheif, 3 ratling guns, warp lightniong cannon and codex.) i want to use eshin so im considering converting the clanrats to night runners and the guttter runners with the claws into assassins and a master assassin. pm me with feedback please.

#1: You lucky, LUCKY git. 10 Jezzails alone equal $120, 15 Gutter Runners equal $60, 60 Clanrats equal $105, you got a WONDERFUL deal.

#2: Right now, it looks like your army was meant to stand back and shoot at the enemy. With your conversion idea, though, you'd start Eshin. If you go Eshin, will you stay with the Storm of Chaos or Skaven Book list? Book list makes you less likely to run (You master assassin can give his leadership while hidden), though you lose the Under the Cover of Darkness rule, and I think Eshin Triads too.  

[Dark-Kratios]

Drachyench_The_Eternal

kratios

i just started skaven after buying a bunch used and i have no idea how the play fantasy or skaven. (i payed $35 for 60 clan rats, 10 jisals(rifle looking thingys) 15 gutter runners, 2 warplock engeneers, warcheif, 3 ratling guns, warp lightniong cannon and codex.) i want to use eshin so im considering converting the clanrats to night runners and the guttter runners with the claws into assassins and a master assassin. pm me with feedback please.

#1: You lucky, LUCKY git. 10 Jezzails alone equal $120, 15 Gutter Runners equal $60, 60 Clanrats equal $105, you got a WONDERFUL deal.
quote]
oh hell ya. the people who were selling it had found them in the basement bedroom they had rented out 6 months before. the guy had taken all his stuff when he left and aperently he forgot them and since he had owed like $600 in back rent the had sold anything that he left behind. the origanal price on the box of skaven was $40 but they reduced it because they thaought it was worth less.(it was all in one clanrats box. it still had the price on it. mrgreen )

 

[Drachyench]

kratios

Drachyench_The_Eternal

kratios

i just started skaven after buying a bunch used and i have no idea how the play fantasy or skaven. (i payed $35 for 60 clan rats, 10 jisals(rifle looking thingys) 15 gutter runners, 2 warplock engeneers, warcheif, 3 ratling guns, warp lightniong cannon and codex.) i want to use eshin so im considering converting the clanrats to night runners and the guttter runners with the claws into assassins and a master assassin. pm me with feedback please.

#1: You lucky, LUCKY git. 10 Jezzails alone equal $120, 15 Gutter Runners equal $60, 60 Clanrats equal $105, you got a WONDERFUL deal.
quote]
oh hell ya. the people who were selling it had found them in the basement bedroom they had rented out 6 months before. the guy had taken all his stuff when he left and aperently he forgot them and since he had owed like $600 in back rent the had sold anything that he left behind. the origanal price on the box of skaven was $40 but they reduced it because they thaought it was worth less.(it was all in one clanrats box. it still had the price on it. mrgreen )

XP That poor dude. Lucky you, though.

 

[Dark-Kratios]

now i have better question. knowing what i have, what do you recomend what i do?