Music and Magic

[Pelta]

Sovereign of Darkness

Actually, I could. When i hear a note, I relate it to four of the pitches that I memorized. Me being a violenist, those notes are (in order from lowest to highest)G, D, A, E. Granted, they're the only notes that I've memorized, but by relating each note to one of those gives me a vague understanding of just where on the scale it is. It might not be spot on, but it'd be in the ball park.

Bloody violinists. xp I could probably find a middle C if I was bothered but I'm generally not. I'll remember sounds of notes no problem. I just forget the letter names.

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The only reason I ask is if you would want to have multiple people in a music based ritual (more of in the note sense, not freqency sense). There would have to be some sort of system in order to maintaing consistency with energy output in the ritual. If a note meant something else to everyone, the circle wouldn't that be effective. Then again, music and magic could be considered personal, so maybe I'm just grasping at straws.

I am of the opinion that a note means nothing unless it's in relation to other notes. A note can't be major, minor, wholetone, fast, slow, long or short without other notes to relate to it. Therefore it means very little without any context. Now, if you're talking about a group ritual and work in a specific key, then you're going somewhere. I find certain keys have different moods and effects on people. G is much brighter than F. D minor is much murkier than B minor. Finding a key to fit a situation then working in it in a group like free jazz improv would be far more effective than toning single notes. For one, you can make chords which buzz up a room like nothing else. Then you have the actual motion and interactions of the scales and notes which create their own chemistry, and then there's the fact that it's being performed by musicians in the room, which always has an effect on the music, and they'd all be consciously directing it to a purpose. You could do some pretty cool stuff with that s**t. Oh, and it wouldn't have to be improvised either. You could always write something out for the occasion...  

[Kal Eldritch]

missmagpie

Sovereign of Darkness

Actually, I could. When i hear a note, I relate it to four of the pitches that I memorized. Me being a violenist, those notes are (in order from lowest to highest)G, D, A, E. Granted, they're the only notes that I've memorized, but by relating each note to one of those gives me a vague understanding of just where on the scale it is. It might not be spot on, but it'd be in the ball park.

Bloody violinists. xp I could probably find a middle C if I was bothered but I'm generally not. I'll remember sounds of notes no problem. I just forget the letter names.

We're not bloody... crying I'm assuming you're a pianist then?

missmagpie

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The only reason I ask is if you would want to have multiple people in a music based ritual (more of in the note sense, not freqency sense). There would have to be some sort of system in order to maintaing consistency with energy output in the ritual. If a note meant something else to everyone, the circle wouldn't that be effective. Then again, music and magic could be considered personal, so maybe I'm just grasping at straws.

I am of the opinion that a note means nothing unless it's in relation to other notes. A note can't be major, minor, wholetone, fast, slow, long or short without other notes to relate to it. Therefore it means very little without any context. Now, if you're talking about a group ritual and work in a specific key, then you're going somewhere. I find certain keys have different moods and effects on people. G is much brighter than F. D minor is much murkier than B minor. Finding a key to fit a situation then working in it in a group like free jazz improv would be far more effective than toning single notes. For one, you can make chords which buzz up a room like nothing else. Then you have the actual motion and interactions of the scales and notes which create their own chemistry, and then there's the fact that it's being performed by musicians in the room, which always has an effect on the music, and they'd all be consciously directing it to a purpose. You could do some pretty cool stuff with that s**t. Oh, and it wouldn't have to be improvised either. You could always write something out for the occasion...

That's what I was looking for! Gah, me and my super...scientific mind...ascribing meaning to minute details. That makes a lot more sense. It would also probably encourage the artists to make their music a little more meaningful in general, to have some sort of message they could focus on. I find that's what sticks with me with music, and there's a giant lack of that in a lot of todays music.

*rushes off to write a meaningful score*  

[Pelta]

Sovereign of Darkness

We're not bloody... crying I'm assuming you're a pianist then?

Bah! Fie on you! I'm a flute player! *snobbishness* xp

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That's what I was looking for! Gah, me and my super...scientific mind...ascribing meaning to minute details. That makes a lot more sense. It would also probably encourage the artists to make their music a little more meaningful in general, to have some sort of message they could focus on. I find that's what sticks with me with music, and there's a giant lack of that in a lot of todays music.

*rushes off to write a meaningful score*

Yay I did a good thing! Go make pretty music! And then perhaps we can share... ninja
Actually what pisses me off more about modern contemporary music is the lack of tonality. You could bang your head against the wall and call it "music" these days. I've always thought music needs to have a message - it needs to have something to say. The best musicians are those that bring that out of the music they play. And besides, who really wants to listen to someone bang their head against the wall for five minutes straight?  

[Kal Eldritch]

missmagpie

Sovereign of Darkness

We're not bloody... crying I'm assuming you're a pianist then?

Bah! Fie on you! I'm a flute player! *snobbishness* xp

XP me and my assumptions... rolleyes

Quote:

Quote:

That's what I was looking for! Gah, me and my super...scientific mind...ascribing meaning to minute details. That makes a lot more sense. It would also probably encourage the artists to make their music a little more meaningful in general, to have some sort of message they could focus on. I find that's what sticks with me with music, and there's a giant lack of that in a lot of todays music.

*rushes off to write a meaningful score*

Yay I did a good thing! Go make pretty music! And then perhaps we can share... ninja
Actually what pisses me off more about modern contemporary music is the lack of tonality. You could bang your head against the wall and call it "music" these days. I've always thought music needs to have a message - it needs to have something to say. The best musicians are those that bring that out of the music they play. And besides, who really wants to listen to someone bang their head against the wall for five minutes straight?

Well, the image of such might make me giggle, but no. Honestly, without a message, what does music have? Wow...it's a note...compared with another note...with no vivid pattern. Boringness. I'd much rather have music with the power to rally the fury of a thousand blood thursty warriors, thank you very much. Even outside of contemporary music, you have idiots in Metal bands that put a couple of chords together, rinse, repeat, and add unoriginal vocals to it and expect it to be a roaring success. Music just does so much better when there's a meaning to it.  

[PhantomPhoenix0]

Sovereign of Darkness

You have idiots in Metal bands that put a couple of chords together, rinse, repeat, and add unoriginal vocals to it and expect it to be a roaring success. Music just does so much better when there's a meaning to it.

Umm... I slightly resent that, being a big metal-head myself. Not all Metal is unoriginal and repetative. I know a few metal bands that have alot of depth and meaning to their songs. (I reccomend Lacuna Coil and Nightwish for good examples).  

[Ezinu]

PhantomPhoenix0

Sovereign of Darkness

You have idiots in Metal bands that put a couple of chords together, rinse, repeat, and add unoriginal vocals to it and expect it to be a roaring success. Music just does so much better when there's a meaning to it.

Umm... I slightly resent that, being a big metal-head myself. Not all Metal is unoriginal and repetative. I know a few metal bands that have alot of depth and meaning to their songs. (I reccomend Lacuna Coil and Nightwish for good examples).

i'm not a big lacuna coil fan myself but i resent the state ment myself i am a HUGE metal fan and i have to admit alot of the newer bands do exactly that they arnt really getting anyhting new out there just doing what makes money but you cant make a generalize statement like that most metal bands infact are more original then anything else out there just listen to manowar ledzeplin god smack alice in chains tell me they all sound the same or maby its just your lack of experiance in metal that you say that i could say all techno sounds the same but it takes a trained ear to realize that its all diffrent i'm done ranting about this now.

i dont really incorporate music into my work i have heard alot of people saying good stuff about doing so though i do how ever at times when i feel its right dance just to the music in my head.  

[Ezinu]

i image how ever a drum circle would be very effective in raising energy and setting the right mood pluss it sounds really cool.  

[Pelta]

mouseyanna

PhantomPhoenix0

Sovereign of Darkness

You have idiots in Metal bands that put a couple of chords together, rinse, repeat, and add unoriginal vocals to it and expect it to be a roaring success. Music just does so much better when there's a meaning to it.

Umm... I slightly resent that, being a big metal-head myself. Not all Metal is unoriginal and repetative. I know a few metal bands that have alot of depth and meaning to their songs. (I reccomend Lacuna Coil and Nightwish for good examples).

i'm not a big lacuna coil fan myself but i resent the state ment myself i am a HUGE metal fan and i have to admit alot of the newer bands do exactly that they arnt really getting anyhting new out there just doing what makes money but you cant make a generalize statement like that most metal bands infact are more original then anything else out there just listen to manowar ledzeplin god smack alice in chains tell me they all sound the same or maby its just your lack of experiance in metal that you say that i could say all techno sounds the same but it takes a trained ear to realize that its all diffrent i'm done ranting about this now.

i dont really incorporate music into my work i have heard alot of people saying good stuff about doing so though i do how ever at times when i feel its right dance just to the music in my head.

Eh. May I possibly ask you to use some punctuation please? It took me about three times longer to read your post than it usually should. And I had to read it twice before it made any sense. Thank you.

I myself am not a huge metal fan because the style of music doesn't speak to me. I'm not going to say it's all crap though - I have heard some very good metal songs. The problem I find is that it's gotten too formulaeic. The singing, bass and drum style have become standardised across the board and even most of the chord changes and modulations are ridiculously overused. That and most of the songs are about killing things. It just aint my style. Whereas I can respect the musicians who have done good work in metal, the style itself doesn't agree with me.

I also can't dance to metal, and dance is an exceptionally important part of music for me. Actually I might as well bring this up because it goes well with the topic. I see dance as the physical representation of music. Watching someone dance properly is 'seeing' the music. Thus bad music makes bad dance. Good music makes good dance. I can't dance to metal because all you can do is mosh and headbang, which I see as ways of releasing aggression which I don't have. So I'll stand at the sidelines and watch and try not to get squished. But if the DJ plays anything from Beatles to Fat Boy Slim I have no choice in the matter - I have to dance. And it's not even me dancing, it's the music dancing me. Music takes possession of my limbs and makes dance happen. And it is one of the most exhilarating ways of experiencing music.

So what are peoples' opinions on dance in relation to music and magic?  

[Kal Eldritch]

PhantomPhoenix0

Sovereign of Darkness

You have idiots in Metal bands that put a couple of chords together, rinse, repeat, and add unoriginal vocals to it and expect it to be a roaring success. Music just does so much better when there's a meaning to it.

Umm... I slightly resent that, being a big metal-head myself. Not all Metal is unoriginal and repetative. I know a few metal bands that have alot of depth and meaning to their songs. (I reccomend Lacuna Coil and Nightwish for good examples).

Huge fan of metal myself, though my tastes revolve around Black, Death and Thrash. As for Nightwish, their album Once blew my freakin mind. What I meant was that a lot of bands that I see who are particularly new act like the world revolves around them when their music is uninspired and repetative. I wouldn't be able to tell you their names, but then again, that's probably because they weren't memorable. I'm seeing this trend in Nu Metal as well, and although Korn and Disturbed are good in their own right, they overuse the same theme and a lot of their versus just seem to be repeats of the one before it.

@mouseyanna: Now now, no need to get snippety. Notice that I didn't say that all of metal was that way, only the idiots within the genre. Oh, and the Zep isn't metal whithin itself. While it may be praised as a precursor to heavy metal, the band itself was more along the lines of British rock.  

[Kal Eldritch]

missmagpie

I myself am not a huge metal fan because the style of music doesn't speak to me. I'm not going to say it's all crap though - I have heard some very good metal songs. The problem I find is that it's gotten too formulaeic. The singing, bass and drum style have become standardised across the board and even most of the chord changes and modulations are ridiculously overused. That and most of the songs are about killing things. It just aint my style. Whereas I can respect the musicians who have done good work in metal, the style itself doesn't agree with me.

Gah...it's all so true. however, if you look hard enough, there are redeeming bands. One example would be Nevermore. Their newest album, This Godless Endeavor, and expecially the songs Sentient 6 and Born, muse at the meaning of life, the uniqueness, and seemingly overwhelming problems within it. A very mystifying performance. Plus, Jeff Loomis' guitar solos are teh smex whee

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I also can't dance to metal, and dance is an exceptionally important part of music for me. Actually I might as well bring this up because it goes well with the topic. I see dance as the physical representation of music. Watching someone dance properly is 'seeing' the music. Thus bad music makes bad dance. Good music makes good dance. I can't dance to metal because all you can do is mosh and headbang, which I see as ways of releasing aggression which I don't have. So I'll stand at the sidelines and watch and try not to get squished. But if the DJ plays anything from Beatles to Fat Boy Slim I have no choice in the matter - I have to dance. And it's not even me dancing, it's the music dancing me. Music takes possession of my limbs and makes dance happen. And it is one of the most exhilarating ways of experiencing music.

So what are peoples' opinions on dance in relation to music and magic?

Dance (and in Metal's case, bobing and/or headbanging) is a very important representation of the music's captivating movements. When a song is danceable, it gives us the inspiration to flow along with the mood of the music. This may be sporadic or choreographed, but in either case, it often bears homage to the general feel of the music.

It's application to music make it a very powerful tool indeed when used for magical purposes. Often times, when I dance, I feel overwhelmed with the emotion that the music evokes. If you could focus these emotions towards a goal, you got yourself one hell of a spell.  

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[Kal Eldritch]

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[DakiDaki]

Well, I use a flute to meditate (random notes basically), and to this day I can't listen to Dead Can Dance in a 'mundane' context.  

[Pelta]

DakiDaki

Well, I use a flute to meditate (random notes basically), and to this day I can't listen to Dead Can Dance in a 'mundane' context.

Dead Can Dance are utterly fantastic for their pure sound. It's some of the most pure, soulful music I know. Oddly enough, one of my students' father was their sound engineer for a while. He was there when they broke up. Terribly sad. The whole band are completely out of their minds too.

When you use the flute to meditate do you play the notes yourself or just listen to stuff? Because as far as I know you can get some pretty basic meditation music cds of flute music. I find making music very meditative sometimes but depending on the meditation playing the flute can be too energetic. It also depends on the instrument itself. A wooden flute can have a very soft, soothing sound whereas a metal flute can sometimes be too bright and piercing for a quiet meditation.