Authors to avoid??

[Neko_Bast]

ok.....please tell me what is worng with working with Bast who i feel an conention to wile at the same time working with the triple goddess and the horned god. i have never read any where in all my books that it was not wiccan to work with other gods/dess. its not as if i don't still celebrate Her. saying i can't be wiccan and work with others is just as bad as saying there is only one God. please tell me where it says that wiccans only follow the goddess and the god.

By the way Happy Imbolic every one ^-^  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

ok.....please tell me what is worng with working with Bast who i feel an conention to wile at the same time working with the triple goddess and the horned god. i have never read any where in all my books that it was not wiccan to work with other gods/dess. its not as if i don't still celebrate Her. saying i can't be wiccan and work with others is just as bad as saying there is only one God. please tell me where it says that wiccans only follow the goddess and the god.

By the way Happy Imbolic every one ^-^

That's because your books are all Heretical.

Because we haven't seen them here in a while:

Deoridhe

Wicca is a mystery tradition begun by Gerald Gardner in the 1950s. He based it on some ancient folklore, took the holidays of the Celts and the Norse and combined them, and created a magical system in the style of Kabalism. Wicca assumes a magical system based on five elements (earth, air, fire, water, spirit) and four directions. It is ditheistic and strictly divides gods and goddesses, as well as men and women, by characteristics associated with each. The Wiccan God is a diune figure, the Oak and Holly King who dies in the fall and is reborn in the spring. The Wiccan Goddess is a triune figure associated with the moon; she is the mother/maiden/crone figure. The Wiccan Rede, believed by some to be written by Doreen Valiente, includes many of the assumptions and indicates the worldview of this religion. When Valiente left the initial coven created by Gardner, he wrote the 161 Laws of the Wicca to expand on the earlier created Wiccan Rede.

More recent authors have bought into the provably false claims of Margaret Murry that Wicca is an ancient religion practiced by Northern Europeans. Although Wicca has a superficial relationship with several of the religions found in Northern Europe, it is very distinctive in a wide variety of ways and combines different traditions in a way that was never historically done. Wicca's modern creation is well established, but it does not mean the religion is without merit. However, as a mystery tradition, the only way to truly become a Wiccan is to find someone within the tradition to teach you, usually via a coven, and advance to the higher mysteries. Any published books will only cover the basics of Wicca enough to get people curious; these published books also frequently do not disclose they are only giving part of the story, leading to many people becoming confused as to the real nature of Wicca.

Reagun Ban

I think, in order to best discuss wether or not you're entitled to call yourself Wiccan, we need to comment on what the legitimacy of the Coven is and therefore the legitimacy of you as a Wiccan. If a Coven has lineage, it is legitimate. Lineage is a direct line back to Gardner's coven. Many argue this is irrelevant. They are wrong. This is not an opinion. It is a statement of simple fact. Once a lineaged Coven initiates you, you can call yourself Wiccan because you are Wiccan. You have been brought into Wicca by the sacred rite of initiation.

Gardner did not release all of his religion in written format. He was paranoid. He believed the eebil xians were out to get him, I believe he was a paranoid man with a need to feel self important and the secrets gave him that. Regardless, these secrets have not been revealed and are not available to outsiders. Admittedly, all you have is my word and the word of pretty much all lineaged covens. So, again, we come to legitimacy. Those who are initiated, and claim to be privvy to some secrets, say those who aren't initiated aren't privvy to these secrets.

It has been raised that all we have is the word of Initiates that there are secrets. I am no longer Wiccan. There are secrets. I was initiated. There are secrets. I left the path. There are secrets. If there were no secrets, then I was lied to before my initiation. Why would I, as a non-wiccan, help to uphold a lie I was told when lying is inherently bad?

Those who can trace a direct line of teaching to the religion's creator claim that those who cannot are missing vital information, the information which actually makes you a Wiccan. Do they lord it over the outer court practitioners, never in my experience or the experience of any I've ever met. These secrets don't make you a better person, they grant you a true understanding of what it means to be Wicca. They are, in essence, a large part of the Religion itself.

"But you're lording it over us now" you say. Doesn't matter because a) I'm not Wiccan and b) I'm just telling you that they exist not lording them over you. I'm asking "but how can you call yourself Wiccans when you don't know what Wicca is" not saying "ha, you're lesser beings. I am so much better than you because I know the secrets. You shall never know them mortals ha ha ha ha"

"But I believe in the Lord and Lady" you may say. "So ******** what", I say. Have you been to a lineaged coven meeting? If the answer is no, then how do you know the Lord and Lady you follow are the same as the Lord and Lady of Wicca. Because it's in a book? So are the Valar. Because it's in a book on Wicca? Any true author is limited in what they can tell you by the 161 Rules of Wicca and by the Initiatory Oaths. If they are claiming to reveal the secrets of Wicca then they are claiming to break an Oath. Bear that in mind when reading their material. I realise that just because they're Oathbreakers doesn't mean they're lying about the secrets of wicca, I'm just explaining the facts.

If you haven't been initiated by a lineaged coven, you don't know what Wicca is. You can argue against this til you're blue in the face but you may as well be arguing that squares are circles. Be a pagan, be an ecclectic, but neither of these will make you a Wiccan. There is no need to be a Wiccan. I'm not. Wicca was too constricting in some ways and not enough in others. It offered me none of the answers to the questions I was asking.

Stop reading into it that my telling you you're not wiccan is me telling you you're bad people, bad pagans, that you're faith is flawed or wrong. All I'm telling you is that without initiation, you can't possibly know what Wicca is.

Can you claim to be a Catholic Priest without being ordained? Can you claim to be a Hindu Brahman or a Buddhist monk without the neccessary training? Believing in the Torah does not make you a Rabbi. Why the ******** would believing in the Lord and Lady make you a Wiccan?

 

[Neko_Bast]

ok.....i get your point. but i'm a solitary in a town where we have no coven. the closest coven is like 50 miles away and i wondn't want to join them anyway beacuse they do things i don't aprove of that are not wiccan. so acourding to you i'm not wiccan because i don't only follow the goddess and god. i'm also not becasue i'v not been initiated by a coven. well how the hell do solitaries become wiccan in your book? fine.......i'll call myself a witch. but when people ask me what my faith is i'll telll them wiccan beacuse its the closest thing they know of to what i beleve. and if every author out there is leading us astray then there will be a lot of solitaries that have never seen a coven sayign they are wiccan  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

ok.....i get your point. but i'm a solitary in a town where we have no coven. the closest coven is like 50 miles away and i wondn't want to join them anyway beacuse they do things i don't aprove of that are not wiccan.

That's why it is important to be careful and to learn lineage and what not. However, I would question if what you think Wicca is and is not is accurate. Sex magic for example is part of Wicca.

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so acourding to you i'm not wiccan because i don't only follow the goddess and god.

According to Reagun, you are not Wiccan because you do not follow the Wiccan Lord and Lady. Correct.

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i'm also not becasue i'v not been initiated by a coven.

And thus have not recieved the mysteries. Also correct.

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well how the hell do solitaries become wiccan in your book?

By going through the initiations and then leaving the coven after they have learned the mysteries.

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fine.......i'll call myself a witch.

Congrats. You're less fluffy than you were a half hour ago.

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but when people ask me what my faith is i'll telll them wiccan

And that would make you a liar. You're an eclectic pagan with Egyptian and Outer Court Wiccan influence- at best.

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and if every author out there is leading us astray then there will be a lot of solitaries that have never seen a coven sayign they are wiccan

And that makes them liars too.  

[Neko_Bast]

i have realized that you are one of the people that i can't talke religen to.....

1) it wasn't sex magick i was against. it was drugs.....as in meth
2) i take insult to the turm fluffy......just beacuse i'm not "wiccan" enuff for you dosn't make me a lier.
3) all your doing is telling me i'll never become wiccan because i can't learn form a coven. you are the only wiccan i have ever met that has told me i want' wiccan. if you and your coven what to act like they are so more knowligable than the rest of us, fine. i'll turm myself a kitchen witch that folows wicca..... blaugh  

[CuAnnan]

Neko_Bast

1) it wasn't sex magick i was against. it was drugs.....as in meth

Then report them to the police.

Neko_Bast

2) i take insult to the turm fluffy......just beacuse i'm not "wiccan" enuff for you dosn't make me a lier.

The intentionally bad spelling, the blatant disregard for truth and the willing "I'll tell them I'm wiccan even though I'm not" are what suggested to Tea that you are a fluffy/liar.

Neko_Bast

3) all your doing is telling me i'll never become wiccan because i can't learn form a coven. you are the only wiccan i have ever met that has told me i want' wiccan.

She's not Wiccan.
If the only coven you know is 50 miles away and they're all meth heads, then what wiccans (bearing in mind that unless you're initiated, you're not a wiccan) do you know?

Neko_Bast

if you and your coven what to act like they are so more knowligable than the rest of us, fine. i'll turm myself a kitchen witch that folows wicca..... blaugh

What is the elemental weapon of ether?
What is the significance of dipping the athame into the chalice?
Why is the Lord Horned?
Why does he die and is reborn?
Why a triune Goddess and diune God?
What is the significance of the Five Fold Kiss?
What purpose does the Great Rite serve?


Why are you a wiccan? What, of the wiccan beliefs, do you subscribe to that makes you entitled to call yourself part of an initiatory mystery religion that you haven't been initiated into and don't know the mysteries of?

Where are you getting your "wiccan beliefs", considering only approxiamately a quarter of the religious information can be commited to writing?  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

i have realized that you are one of the people that i can't talke religen to.....

1) it wasn't sex magick i was against. it was drugs.....as in meth

As part of their magical practice? Well, that would make them as heretical as you. ~Shurgs~

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2) i take insult to the turm fluffy......just beacuse i'm not "wiccan" enuff for you dosn't make me a lier.

Ummm... not being Wiccan and saying you are would be what makes you a liar, even after being corrected. And thus, this willful ignorance you demonstrate is what makes you a Fluffy.

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3) all your doing is telling me i'll never become wiccan because i can't learn form a coven.

Can't is not the same as won't. And it's not because of your inability to learn, it's because of your unwillingness to do so.

Be an eclectic as Reagun pointed out. It doesn't invalidate your path any. It just means you weren't what you thought you were.

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you are the only wiccan i have ever met that has told me i want' wiccan.

I'm not Wiccan. And if you want, give it a couple minutes and there will be a few more to tell you as much.

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if you and your coven what to act like they are so more knowligable than the rest of us, fine.

Not in a coven. I hang out with some Asatru Kindred, but it's not the same. And any of the Lineaged Wiccans know more about Wicca than you do. No harm, no foul. Just accept it, grow and move on.

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i'll turm myself a kitchen witch that folows wicca..... blaugh

Except, it isn't Wicca without the Wiccan Lord and Lady and the Wiccan Mysteries. It's Eclectic Outer Court Heresy.

Oh... and please take some time to spell check and type in proper English.  

[Lotus Poem]

Neko_Bast

i have realized that you are one of the people that i can't talke religen to.....

1) it wasn't sex magick i was against. it was drugs.....as in meth
2) i take insult to the turm fluffy......just beacuse i'm not "wiccan" enuff for you dosn't make me a lier.
3) all your doing is telling me i'll never become wiccan because i can't learn form a coven. you are the only wiccan i have ever met that has told me i want' wiccan. if you and your coven what to act like they are so more knowligable than the rest of us, fine. i'll turm myself a kitchen witch that folows wicca..... blaugh

I have found Tea's posts (among others here) to be some of the most well informed and thought out posts on all paths of paganism that I have ever come across, does this mean I agree with everything she says? no, but I respect what she has to say and that she's so willing to share her knowledge with others is wonderful.

1) I agree call the police.
2) why does it insult you so much? You did admit that you were willing to lie to people about your spirituality that's what makes you a liar. There are two types of fluffies in my opinion; 1.The Ignorant - who don't really know any better but are willing to learn and accept others points of view and they can admit when someone states a fact that clearly contradicts what they say. 2. The Unwilling - these are too lazy or stubborn to do the research and talk to others with an open mind and so even when confronted about their misunderstandings they get defensive and claim elitism and snobbery.
You can choose which kind of fluffy to be and I'll tell you, the first one is a lot easier to grow out of then the 2nd.
3) I didn't see her say that you'll "never" be wiccan...I'll reread the thread to be sure. You aren't willing to work the coven near you and I understand that but if you are commited to the wiccan path then you need to accept that you are at most Outer Court until you find a coven that you are at least compatible enough with to be initiated and learn the mysteries and then you can become a solitary. If you feel a strong connection with Bast that's just great smile really, but you don't have to be a wiccan to be a pagan or even a witch. I think you are a bit hung up on the word wicca not the path it names.

btw I'm not wiccan but I know many wiccans besides the ones here who would tell you the exact same thing as Reagun and Tea. I once thought as you do that I was wiccan (to be fair this was about 14 years ago and I was 12) but when the difference between wicca and paganism was explained to me I understood completely and have never called myself a wiccan since. I didn't get offended that I was corrected about something I felt I had a lot of knowledge in, I didn't get defensive I was and still am grateful that someone was kind enough to stop and explain that I would embarass myself if I kept it up. I love that the members of this guild are so willing to enlighten and educate people instead of just flaming them and humiliating them like a large chunk of the pagan scene has taken to doing.  

[Neko_Bast]

Ok......All of you are missunderstanding what I'm trying to say. And after I reread my posts I realized that what I said could easly be missunderestud. After thinking about it all day at work (really wish I had a computer at work so I could have edited my post) I have decided to clarify.

The coven I was refering to did drugs in there spare time and broke up after a wile, that was also 4 years ago. Any other coven that I was invited to was made up of girls that knew nothing, or was so far away that I didn't think of mentioning them.

I tell people that I am Wiccan because I thought I was. Most of the time I just tell them I'm a Witch or a Kitchen Witch. I read and was told by others online that if you follow the teachings of wicca you are wiccan.

I do know quite a few Solitary witchs that call themselves Wiccan and one Wiccan who was part of a coven befor she moved here and she was the one who said i was Wiccan.

Now. For you who are not Wiccan, why are you telling me i'm not? just because Gerald Gardner started it (he acualy didn't start Wicca. He started the Gardeand Tradition), dose not mean the religion hasn't evolved over the past 50 years. There are probably very few covens out there that acutally come from his. A lot of the books that say you have to be initiated include a self initiation. I'm sorry if I offended any "real Wiccans" by believing what I believed. But by only saying Gerald Gardner initiates are "real Wiccans" you're making Wicca an exclusive club. He only started one tradition, he is only one form of Wicca. I know I don't have to be Wiccan to follow the goddess and god, or to be a witch. If your not Wiccan how do you know there acutaly are Wiccan Mysteries? Because some Wiccans said so? If every one believed what they were told we would all be christion.  

[Lotus Poem]

Neko_Bast

If every one believed what they were told we would all be christion.

First can you explain that statement to me please? I'm really not sure what you could possibly mean by that.

Second, fine I'm not wiccan and since I'm not I couldn't possibly know any more about it than you do. [/sarcasm] But you might want to study up because a lot of things you have said are wrong, not in my opinion in fact. I'm sorry that you are having a problem accepting that.

And btw most of your "back up" is what people have told you.

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was told by others online that if you follow the teachings of wicca you are wiccan

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one Wiccan who was part of a coven befor she moved here and she was the one who said i was Wiccan

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A lot of the books that say you have to be initiated include a self initiation

Why would you want to practice a religion you claim to be so committed to and only practice a small fraction of it because you are unwilling to accept that it is a Mystery Religion and therefore has mysteries that you won't be learning if you continue with this attitude. And just because a person isn't wiccan doesn't mean they are unfamiliar with the traditions and the history of the religion. When I thought I was wiccan, I did the self initiation and everything. Then I got to thinking, how does anyone know? How do people call themselves HPs without any sort of verification or credentials. How is that right or fair? Anyone can say that so what makes it real? It didn't sit right with me and when I did some more research I found that my hunch was right. That was also about the time I found out I wasn't really a wiccan but an eclectic pagan searching for my path and I'm quite happy with that.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

TeaDidikai

I'm not Wiccan. And if you want, give it a couple minutes and there will be a few more to tell you as much.

I second that.

Really, a lot of your problems would be solved if you would just pay attention. I'm not one of the people in this guild that knows a lot, but Reagun and Tea honestly do know a lot. A lot. At the same time, they're not afraid to learn new things, but they also use their common sense to evaluate new information. You, Neko_Bast, on the other hand, both do not know that much, persist in your ignorance, and you can't even use your common sense to evaluate anything you're told like Beauhemia did. I confess I used to think that Wicca was all you think it is, I didn't know about the mysteries, I'd only done some vague exploring on the internet and I'd refer to myself as "Unitarian and sort of half-Wiccan"...for about a month. And then I got educated. And now I know I'm not Wiccan. I call myself a general pagan because I'm fairly certain that some path included under the heading of pagan will eventually be mine. It's okay to be a searcher. You don't absolutely have to have a path at any time, and you definitely don't have to be Wiccan. Don't get hung up on misconceptions and miss out on all various faiths have to offer.

You should listen to Tea and Reagun. They're trying to give you sound advice and you're just throwing it back in their faces.

Listen. Being a Wiccan is kind of like being a Catholic. To be an actual Catholic, you have to have been baptised and take communion, and probably some other things. If you want to convert to Catholicism, you have to take classes, you have to get baptised unless you were baptised as a Protestant, and you have to basically train to be a good Catholic. And then it takes even more training, work, and dedication to become a priest. To be Wiccan, you need to be initiated in a legitimate coven. To be a High Priestess you need to be initiated again. If just 'believing in Yahweh' isn't enough to be a Catholic, believing in the god and goddess isn't enough to be a Wiccan. It's like being a temple without the Torah; you may look great but there's no one at home.

Neko_Bast

I tell people that I am Wiccan because I thought I was.

Well, now you know better, right?

Neko_Bast

Most of the time I just tell them I'm a Witch or a Kitchen Witch.

"Witch" denotes a practice. You can be an atheist witch just as easily as you can be an atheist accountant, etc. Telling people you're a witch is fine. Claiming to be a Wiccan is a lie, and continuing to claim to be Wiccan even when reasonable and intelligent people have reasonably told you that it is and you say, "I don't care, I'll tell everyone I'm Wiccan anyway," is quite immature, and, quite frankly, undeserving of the respect the religion of Wicca could command if more people would actually take the time to understand what it means.

Neko_Bast

For you who are not Wiccan, why are you telling me i'm not?

It doesn't take a professional to know that someone just doesn't have the credentials required to be what they claim to be. A Wiccan or former Wiccan can tell that you are not a Wiccan because there are things that a proper Wiccan would know that you do not. A non-Wiccan who knows enough about the practices and theory that are public can still tell that you are not Wiccan. If you claim to have DID, a psychologist can tell you that you do not have DID despite not having DID hirself (not a typo).

Neko_Bast

ust because Gerald Gardner started it (he acualy didn't start Wicca. He started the Gardeand Tradition), dose not mean the religion hasn't evolved over the past 50 years. [...] He only started one tradition, he is only one form of Wicca.

Yes, he did. There's the Gardnerian Tradition and the Alexandrian tradition, but couldn't Alex Sanders trace his lineage to Gardner?

Neko_Bast

There are probably very few covens out there that acutally come from his.

There are enough proper, lineaged covens out there that Wicca is still a viable religion; if being Wiccan were as easy as believing in the Lord and the Lady, what would be the point? If you're Jewish, your parents want you to marry a nice Jewish boy or girl. Why? Because Judaism isn't just a religion, it's a heritage and bloodlines. Why is Judaism matrilinial? Because it's pretty hard to divorce children from mothers; it's easier to keep track. Would you decide you were Jewish just because you believed in Yahweh and knew some stories? I doubt it. Why are trying it with Wicca? Because you think you can get away with it? Please.

Neko_Bast

But by only saying Gerald Gardner initiates are "real Wiccans" you're making Wicca an exclusive club

Wicca is an exclusive club. That's just the way it is. You can't change that just because it pisses you off.

Neko_Bast

I know I don't have to be Wiccan to follow the goddess and god, or to be a witch.

You don't have to be Wiccan to follow the God and Goddess, but following the God and Goddess does not make you a Wiccan. Just because an insect has six legs, that does not mean that said insect is a bug. There are exact specifications as to what a bug is. And that is just the way it is.

Neko_Bast

If your not Wiccan how do you know there acutaly are Wiccan Mysteries? Because some Wiccans said so?

Um...Yes. That's just what the religion is. How do you know there are specific rules, procedures, and meanings to a sand mandala? Because Buddhist monks say so.

Neko_Bast

If every one believed what they were told we would all be christion.

. . .

And please, for the love of all that's holy, learn to spell, or at least make an effort. I've gone back and corrected at least three typos of my own in this post, because it's respectful to others to be coherent. If you know better, you're letting yourself down by being lax with your language. If you don't know better, well...  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

The coven I was refering to did drugs in there spare time and broke up after a wile, that was also 4 years ago. Any other coven that I was invited to was made up of girls that knew nothing, or was so far away that I didn't think of mentioning them.

Which, if you're looking at outer court heresy, makes you pretty much on par.

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I tell people that I am Wiccan because I thought I was.

And you have been corrected. Yes?

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Most of the time I just tell them I'm a Witch or a Kitchen Witch.

You are aware that witchcraft is not a religion unto itself, yes?

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I read and was told by others online that if you follow the teachings of wicca you are wiccan.

Well, there is Faith to consider. Also note that how do you know that you are following the teachings of Wicca if you do not learn from a lineaged coven?

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I do know quite a few Solitary witchs that call themselves Wiccan and one Wiccan who was part of a coven befor she moved here and she was the one who said i was Wiccan.

Either they are lineaged and are practicing Wiccans, they are misinformed, or they lied. Your friend is likely misinformed, especially since there has been no mention of the Mysteries and the like.

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Now. For you who are not Wiccan, why are you telling me i'm not?

Because you're not, nor are you able to justify the use of the word by any stretch of reason.

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just because Gerald Gardner started it (he acualy didn't start Wicca. He started the Gardeand Tradition),

We call this "Historical Revisionism". Basically, when people rewrite history and lie to suit their own egos, it's a bad thing and at the heart of Fluffy Bunnyism. Gardner invented a religion that before him had not been conceived by taking Judeo-Christian Mystical traditions, Celtic, Slavic and Norse pagan traditions, and tweaking it with his own personal (divinely inspired?) vision and thus a new religion was born. Yeshua did it, Gardner did it, Mohammad did it, Buddha did it... it happens.

(Gardenarian actually- though I may be spelling it incorrectly)

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dose not mean the religion hasn't evolved over the past 50 years.

No one is saying it hasn't. However, there comes a point when a religion is no longer a subsect of it's parent faith and becomes a unique and who tradition unto itself. Note how a majority of Dianics have dropped Wicca from the title of their faith because of the shift in paradigm.

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There are probably very few covens out there that acutally come from his.

Yes. By in large, I think it is fair to say there are more Witchcraft Covens than there are Wiccan. But that doesn't invalidate the Witchcraft Covens spiritual practices, nor does it make them Wiccan and invalidate the precepts of the Wiccan Faith.

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A lot of the books that say you have to be initiated include a self initiation.

And that makes them heretical. It makes it so that they are no longer practicing Wicca, but Eclectic paganism.

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I'm sorry if I offended any "real Wiccans" by believing what I believed. But by only saying Gerald Gardner initiates are "real Wiccans" you're making Wicca an exclusive club.

So? Exclusivity isn't a bad thing. It keeps the mysteries from being sullied by liars and thieves, it keeps the standard of education and the nature of the faith from being watered down.

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He only started one tradition, he is only one form of Wicca.

But to be Wiccan, one must trace one's lineage back to his covens. The gods imparted the Mysteries, which are one part explanation and one part shared experience that are designed to bring faith and enlightenment to the Wiccans. Without that shared gnosis, you can no more call yourself Wiccan than you can call yourself Christian while denying that Yeshua existed.

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I know I don't have to be Wiccan to follow the goddess and god, or to be a witch. If your not Wiccan how do you know there acutaly are Wiccan Mysteries? Because some Wiccans said so?

Actually, yes. Because Wiccans who have earned their initiation, learned the mysteries and know what the hell they are talking about without proffering up lies about their faiths history are a more trustworthy source than an author that suggests kiddies lie to their parents, that faked her lineage and couldn't tell you the name of the Lord and Lady if her life depended on it.

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If every one believed what they were told we would all be christion.

Actually- no. One, I do believe that Yeshua and YHVH's religions are valid. But my faith is not called to them. It never has been, and not everyone was born into a Christian household.  

[Sivirs]

Hey, judging by Neko_Bast's argument, if three or more of you tell me I'm a millionaire, it'll magically make me one even though I don't meet the qualifications for being a millionaire by any stretch of the imagination, and the only money I earn right now is from sparse commissions.

COME ON, PEOPLE! START THE COUNTDOWN!

After that, if three or more of us tell Deo she already HAS an angelic sash, one will mystically appear in her inventory, so we can work on that next.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

Listen to Tea. Not only does she know what she's talking about, she knows how to say it.  

[Deoridhe]

Sivirs

After that, if three or more of us tell Deo she already HAS an angelic sash, one will mystically appear in her inventory, so we can work on that next.

What do you mean NEXT? scream First, minion! FIRST!!!

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