Symbols

[scorplett]

I'll sorta double up a bit here...

TeaDidikai

What is the most common symbol within your tradition?

On one hand I would think circles of three, five, seven and nine.
The other would be ts a three way toss between a circle, a star and a triangle.

TeaDidikai

What is the most common symbol for your tradition?

1st Triscle
2nd Pentagram

TeaDidikai

What is your favorite symbol within your tradition?

1. Probably the Bradán
2. The particular type of triple spiral.

TeaDidikai

What is/are your favorite symbol(s) from other tradition(s)?

Hmmm... Not really thought about that before. Don't know if it counts as a symbol, but I've always liked bindi's, and generally the many and varied forms of body adornment/decoration etc.

TeaDidikai

Do you have any personally authored symbols?

Yes, there is one that I consider a personal sigil. I've wanted to get it tattooed for many many years... (I think at this stage it'd be about 15years when I think about it) But I've never found an artist to do it.


If so, what spiritual relevance do they hold?
It is the story of me. An expression of the foundation of my being.

TeaDidikai

Do you have a symbol-based method of personalization?

Nothing constant. Though I used to sign my paintings with a symbol.

TeaDidikai

Do you have a series of symbols that contain specific mysteries that you employ in spiritual practices?

Yes.
In each of my traditions there is something that functions like this. I think in the case of The Wica, it's obvious that there are symbols that contain mysteries... even outercourt concepts can easily lead the astute mind to some of those... As for my native tradition, that's a lot more esoteric in it's mysteries, but none the less, there are symbols and series of symbols that bring mysteries.  

[TeaDidikai]

Kashaku-Tatsu

We're not arguing that a dragon is a snake but images of ouroborous be depicted in art, symbol of alchemy and other places as both a snake and dragon.

And one of them is correct and the other is revisionism.

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I've seen both, I know alchemists, and hell they don't even take offense with their own symbol.

I know alchemists as well. The ones I know take offense at intellectual dishonesty, lies, misrepresentation and revisionism.

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and tea, no need to get all butt hurt over an expression used to show I'm not getting mad or overheated on a topic lol.

I am making this as clear as I possibly can. You, have caused slight. Slight that has not had amends made for it. You have crossed a boundary- quite publicly. You have publicly defended that action, as a result, I am publicly warning you. Do it again, and I will report you for trolling.

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Or get upset cause I make a point I that you have done nothing to prove right,

Actually, you made no such point. I merely pointing out that the Greek does not support your claim.

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that it's ok for another religion to alter a symbol and have it be accepted,

You haven't shown this has happened.

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and somewhere years ago the alchemy symbol was altered and both versions are accepted by everyone who is of the path that symbol comes from. lol

Don't lie.
Your Narrow experience of a discipline =/= Everyone.  

[TeaDidikai]

Kashaku-Tatsu

I can see your point, but even in a business situation I'd rather people call me hun, sweety, deary (or other us terms commonly used with women, hell I'd take b***h with a laugh and witty come back). when they get ahold of my business card and call be by my birth name (both first and last) insanely pisses me off and I can't hold much demeanor after that

You may wish to submit to psychological evaluation if you have such irrational anger for people using your name.

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... ok fine when I get an extra 500$ that doesn't get put into my modified car, art supplies, ritual restocks, herbs or organic food I can change my name to stop that... but doesn't stop that offense from hitting me when I see the biz cards my company gave me to put in the office. And when Dori kept using sn's people kept assuming he was being combative when he wasn't (and trust he was being respectful, he is much more caustic when he doesn't care about rules of a place), so I used a softer term to lessen the tone of the over all post.

Both of you were demonstrated to be liars and oathbreakers.

I can imagine why that stings.

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When we describe the different symbols we tell our students it's the alchemy symbol for rebirth, we never claimed to be Hellenic Recons.

Then you lie to your students as well.

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So in the context of it being a dragon to alchemists and us sayin it's the alchemy symbol and adorning my alchemy journal, it's still within proper context.

And it's also based on lies and revisionism.

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I could've gone on a butthurt rant about the five wounds of christ being associated with a pagan symbol but I kept that peeve to myself and let it go.

That's good. It would show you to be an intellectually dishonest person, to say the least.

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Like I've said a few times if one religion can adapt use of another religion's icons and it be right,

Not always. Especially not when they lie about them in order to fit their historical retconning.

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If there are carvings from a few hundred years ago that depict the symbol a certain way, and it's still used in that way, it'd be the same thing.

Except not. It isn't used the same way- it's being used by Oathbreakers to perpetuate their self delusions and justified their make believe as being ancient when it isn't.

We see this a lot. Mostly from people who claim Wicca is an ancient hidden religion. Most of them grow out of the fluff. Or, like your husband, they turn tail and run after being confronted with the truth.

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I usually leave a group/chat/area when I find followers of Yeshua because of that kind of double standard when dealing with any aspect of religion comparison, etc. The only reason I stayed is because I find the antics mildly amusing while I'm at work. lol

Wow.. so you're a bigot too?  

[IH_Zero]

Kashaku-Tatsu

Oroborus / Tail-Biter
Return to the Egyptian Page
Return to the African Page

Region: Egypt, Africa
Time Period: Unknown
References in Literature: None
Sources: China and Japan, pg 53

Notes:
Circles the earth and bites his own tail
Symbol of Eternity
Osiris, through the Nile connection, has been linked as Ouroborus.

I reaaaaaally want to know where they got this. I haven't seen any reference to that in any of my studies. Looking around, the majority of the sites referencing such a connection seem to have each other, or the same exact texts, as their references.

ETA: Wait, what? Their source is a book, text, something called "China and Japan"? For something about Egypt? The hell?  

[TeaDidikai]

Kashaku-Tatsu

Ouroboros is an ancient alchemy symbol depicting a snake or dragon [DNA]

Lie number one:
Alchemy as a concept, while applied to other traditions, was not a system unto itself until it's inception as such somewhere between the years 900 and 1300 ACE.

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http://www.crystalinks.com/ouroboros.html

This source does not stand up to the required quality that would allow it's position to be admitted as fact.

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The origin of the symbol is unclear. Some trace it to Neolithic cultures, and the seventh century writer Horopollon stated that the Egyptians used the ouroboros to illustrate their concept of the universe--eternity and immortality (Shepard 1232)....
The Gnostic text Pistis Sophia states that the sun disk was imagined as a great dragon with its tail in its mouth, an image also featured on Gnostic gems (Walker 268-9)...
Sometimes two creatures, the top one a winged dragon standing for volatility, were depicted swallowing each other (Biedermann Dictionary 363). Occasionally, the symbol consisted of two long-necked birds (Becker 316)....
Furthermore, the ouroboros is related to the dragon, a common symbol of beginnings and ends--and in Semitic and Indo-European myths, the primordial chaos that must be overcome to create life and order (Moon 132).


(hmmm would appear only the name ouroborus is the only part of him that originated in greece.... I see many places where he's called a serpent, but just as many where he's called a dragon, hell even one states long necked birds....)

More historical revisionism and more retconning. Can you please muster enough intellectual honesty to admit that if the Ouroborus was a dragon, it wouldn't be named οὐροβόρος ὄφις, but instead οὐροβόροςδράκων.

This isn't a matter of personal opinion. This isn't a matter of historical revisionism. This is a matter of fact. This is a documented linguistic understanding.

I know coming to terms with your Fluff can be hard. But part of the process is learning how to evaluate false claims and recognize accurate information, then implementing it rather than clinging to the comfort of your fluff.

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Like this part would matter to anyone, but I have a metal worker friend who practices alchemy and uses the dragon image as ouroborus and calls it such. He and his wife recognized my cg image of him and were happy with it calling it Ouroborus.

It matters. It's another demonstration of your intellectual dishonesty.

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Because I have not seen another term for it, even in dragon form. It's still ouroborus by the users before me and besides me.

If you actually knew what you were talking about, you could have easily understood the linguistics in play and made a correction.

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I could call it "tail devourer" but that is what the name means,

If you actually understood the Greek at all, you'd know that οὐροβόρος ὄφις means something more.

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hell I'll try to find a way to get a sumerian translation for it to appease everyone teehee.

I'd wish you luck, but it'd be a fool's errand. No translation can exist for a concept that wasn't present in the culture.

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I have yet to see the pentagram (even in a sunday school i was sent to weekly) depicting anything other than pagan,

Your ignorance does not get to redefine history.

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If there is a christian use for it before pagan then I would like to see it and I'll conceede that it's use is found in both legitimately.

Common knowledge notes that it was the symbol for the City of Jerusalem. Since the concept present in Christendom thanks to the Revelations of John of Patmos, (Rev 21:2) is that Christians are the New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ, and they are united in his sacrifice, it is known as a symbol of that sacrifice- the five wounds of Yeshua.

The question isn't if it was before- the question is if it is independent. Clearly, your commends on the Ouroboros are fluffy revisionism, whereas the comments on the pentagram are about actual theological justification.

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The double standard I find funny in this thread is that it's perfectly fine for this [pic] to be absorbed into this [pic]

Another fallacy. Doesn't this get old? You have to prove such has happened.

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but to find a version of ouroborus that's this [pic] instead of this [pic] is somehow mortally wrong.

Actually, your perpetuation of misinformation when you gave your word you wouldn't is what is makes your morals questionable Oathbreaker.

Kashaku-Tatsu

but I've gotten nothing but venom (from a few)

You haven't earned anything but venom since your behavior has been demonstrated to be that of an Oathbreaker and a Liar.

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but I doubt it'll catch on....

Might be a function of the quality of company you keep. Intellectually honest individuals shouldn't have an issue with it.  

[Deoridhe]

rmcdra

The problem lies in what archetype a dragon represents and what archetype a serpent represents. Most of us here see these as two very distinct archetypes conveying two distinct concepts.

As a side note, the concept of archetypes is actually a very modern one, stemming from Jung. Some Jungians have returned to what they believemight be an older way of viewing it called "follow the symbol". The ultimate meaning - a snake is not a dragon - is the same, but the connotations are different. Also, a winged snake is not necessarily a dragon. XD Just to confuse matters further.



What is the most common symbol within your tradition?
The Thor's Hammer.

What is the most common symbol for your tradition?
The Thor's Hammer. XD Some specific people along my lines also use a Valknut.

What is your favorite symbol within your tradition?
The Valknut. My rendition of it is three colored (black, blue, red) on a field of white.

What is/are your favorite symbol(s) from other tradition(s)?
I adore the concept of a retort from alchemy, both for the pun and the concept of a container.

Do you have any personally authored symbols?
If so, what spiritual relevance do they hold?
Yes, I have quite a few bindrunes I've made, largely to represent people and based off of their names.

Do you have a symbol-based method of personalization?
Yes, the runes.

Do you have a series of symbols that contain specific mysteries that you employ in spiritual practices?
I am hoping someday to learn the eighteen runes/bindrunes/spells that Odin whispered in Baldr's ear.  

[Kashaku-Tatsu]

TeaDidikai

You may wish to submit to psychological evaluation if you have such irrational anger for people using your name.

I don't need psychological eval to know why I have a very rational anger for my name, even if I do ever reconcile with that abusive a*****e I doubt I'll ever like the fact that I'm named after him.

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You haven't earned anything but venom since your behavior has been demonstrated to be that of an Oathbreaker and a Liar.

I had no behavior on my very first post and got nothing but a snide remark or an elitist attitude. Aside from the greek discussion we've had, the other threads haven't gotten any counter proof to the contrary of what either of us posted except "you're wrong" giving yourself no credit.

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Both of you were demonstrated to be liars and oathbreakers.

You keep calling me and Dori oathbreakers.... whose oaths have we broke? (this isn't speaking for him, this is another me/myself/I statement) I sure haven't taken an oath to uphold good, order and decency, in fact my oath was to honour chaos and destruction. smile  

[TeaDidikai]

Kashaku-Tatsu

I don't need psychological eval to know why I have a very rational anger for my name, even if I do ever reconcile with that abusive a*****e I doubt I'll ever like the fact that I'm named after him.

I still suggest you get help. Clearly this is a psychological dis-ease, when you become abusive for having been abused.

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I had no behavior on my very first post and got nothing but a snide remark or an elitist attitude.

Except you're projecting insecurity onto honest challenges at that point.

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Aside from the greek discussion we've had, the other threads haven't gotten any counter proof to the contrary of what either of us posted except "you're wrong" giving yourself no credit.

That's because you don't understand how debate works.

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You keep calling me and Dori oathbreakers.... whose oaths have we broke?

The oaths you made when you joined this site.  

[Kashaku-Tatsu]

obviously your definitions here for challenges and debate are vastly different than other places. For before I even posted I noticed an air of hostility when addressing others. I even direct quoted one of the threads into another pagan community for them to debate and they had to laugh and came to the same conclusion i did. I believe one of my first comments here were people were flamers (based on what I saw in many threads, not just dori's). I find it funny we both call eachother mad when I know I'm not and you say that you're not. Maybe some eval should be thought about the words, terms and style of writing being used. I am not alone in thinking this. wink Like I said before, the only reason I stayed is because I find most of the people on here amusing. lol  

[IH_Zero]

So you go running for back up to another forum, and we're supposed to what exactly? Be in awe of your ability to act like a child?  

[Nines19]

Kashaku-Tatsu

I even direct quoted one of the threads into another pagan community

Were you given permission by any of the posters in that thread to reproduce their intellectual property outside of this guild/website?
If not, that's ******** rude at best and copyright infringement or perhaps plagiarism at worst.

Seriously, even if you were immature enough to actually do that, why the ******** would you own up to it, basically admitting that you're a rude childish person? And why should we then respect or even acknowledge anything else you post in this guild?

Oh, and sticking around "just because we amuse you" or whatever, and yet still posting when you know that we're just going to "amuse you" some more, is called trolling.

...why is it that you haven't been banned from this guild already? I really cannot understand that. We must have about the nicest guild mods ever.  

[maenad nuri]

Nines19

...why is it that you haven't been banned from this guild already? I really cannot understand that. We must have about the nicest guild mods ever.

I am the nicest of all ...we are the Rehab guild after all.

Just wait until I get home. Then, I'll figure out what needs to be done because that did cross a line. Antagonism is one thing, being a complete and utter a** is another.

Back to work. If anyone wants to pm on this matter, I get off in 2 hours and will deal with it then.  

[TeaDidikai]

Kashaku-Tatsu

obviously your definitions here for challenges and debate are vastly different than other places.

Not really- at least, most of what we are seeing here is understood by high school debate teams.

The formal logic is usually a hundred level course.

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For before I even posted I noticed an air of hostility when addressing others.

This is what we call over sensitivity.

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I even direct quoted one of the threads into another pagan community for them to debate and they had to laugh and came to the same conclusion i did.

There is a lot of fluff to be found on the internet.

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I believe one of my first comments here were people were flamers (based on what I saw in many threads, not just dori's).

Then you don't know what a flame is.

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I find it funny we both call eachother mad when I know I'm not and you say that you're not. Maybe some eval should be thought about the words, terms and style of writing being used. I am not alone in thinking this. wink

Appeals to popularity and unnamed authority and a buck will get you a cup of coffee.

Nines19

Oh, and sticking around "just because we amuse you" or whatever, and yet still posting when you know that we're just going to "amuse you" some more, is called trolling.

You have a good point. Have you reported her to a site Mod and cited this?  

[Recursive Paradox]

Kashaku-Tatsu

I even direct quoted one of the threads into another pagan community for them to debate and they had to laugh and came to the same conclusion i did.

Plagiarizers are nothing more than scum to me.

[removed]  

[TeaDidikai]

Hey Poe. Delete the curse please.