Draconic Ritual Q&A ^.=.^

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So what words did you have issue with?
Has it ever occurred to you that those were phrased in neutrality? Were you hoping/expecting kindness and awe?

lol where does this whole expecting kindness and awe thing come on? like someone cannot just post about their path for the love of sharing with other pagans?

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Sometimes I respond with LOLs and smileys too when I think someone is being a whiny douchebag LOL biggrin biggrin biggrin

So then you understand where im coming from?

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It'd be great then if you could quote it directly from Crowley.
And actually, the quote says "to distinguish the science of the magi from its counterfeits" It'd be nice if you could quote your own quote correctly.

If Thelema is the science of the magi and "magick" the appropriate term for that science, then I still don't see how you're weaseling non-Thelema useage out of it.

I was short handing it because i was already typing and didnt feel like opening a new browser to re-quote what i had already said. When it comes to thelema and Crowley, my wife is the more knowledgeable about that stuff then I am, seeing as i really dont read that much into crowley or associations of him.

and again its there, "inside thelema and out" which was from greer, but i did say crowley and to be fair, ill stick to that, crowley never said anything about the distinguishing mark being ONLY for thelema, remember, he was originally in the hermetic order of the golden dawn (which isnt thelemic)  

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Lance Kisgyr

The druids do not exist now as they once did.

Supporting this:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=596601

CuAnnan

The Druids

The word druid comes from the word Draoi (dree), meaning Oak. Draoi can mean Oak, Druid or Magic (which is generally, but not always, Draoicht (dree ucht). The druids were the Lawyers, Judges and Beaureaucrats of the Celts. Yes, they used magic, but we know nothing about their rituals.

Their primary function, though, was a lawkeeper function. They kept gaurd over, interpreted, tried and judged people according to the Brehon law. The Brehon is the oldest, most complete and extensive medieval law system in Europe.

The Druids were very, and utterly, wiped out by the Christians of Rome because they were engaged in Heresy. They had been heavily influenced by the Coptic and Gnostic sects. The druids were represented by, and wore tatooed around their arms, the snake. Hence Patricus Succatus (St Patrick) banishing the snakes from Ireland.

Modern "druids".

I don't and will never respect anyone's claim to druidship. ADF (ar N-draoicht fein) do not represent any form of classical druid. Isaac Bonewit essentially made up a religion and tacked the word druid on to it. He admits as much himself. I respect what he's done but I won't ever respect his use of the word druid to describe what they believe or do.

I dunno, seems pretty clearcut to me that the druids were wiped from the face of the earth.

see word recon(reconstructionist)  

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TeaDidikai

Dori-Ryuu

Meaning, I practice draconic magick in deep ritual.

Then why haven't you been reduced to coke upon the floor?

neutral? seems pretty aggressive to me  

[Lance Kibagari]

Dori-Ryuu

see word recon(reconstructionist)

If the Druids were a religious order and had known source texts, sure.
However, they weren't (especially not as ADF claims to be), and there aren't.

And even if they were a religious order, the Celts have a closed culture.

Some valid reconstructions:

Hellenic
Kemetic
Norse

Why? They have source texts and were ACTUALLY religions at one point in time.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Dori-Ryuu

lol where does this whole expecting kindness and awe thing come on? like someone cannot just post about their path for the love of sharing with other pagans?

You keep bitching on and on about how disrespectful and rude it was.
I have to wonder why you would want to put the entirety of your path out to share with others. Do you normally hand things out on a silver platter to anyone who would read your words?

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So then you understand where im coming from?

xd
I....you....
Wow.

Are you trying to be ironic?

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I was short handing it because i was already typing and didnt feel like opening a new browser to re-quote what i had already said. When it comes to thelema and Crowley, my wife is the more knowledgeable about that stuff then I am, seeing as i really dont read that much into crowley or associations of him.

So then you lied and what you quoted in the quotation marks isn't actually what Crowley said?
I'm not sure if anyone has ever told you this, but if you press the "Ctrl" button and the "C" button at the same time, it makes a copy of highlighted text and saves you the trouble of having to type it all out by hand.

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and again its there, "inside thelema and out" which was from greer, but i did say crowley and to be fair, ill stick to that, crowley never said anything about the distinguishing mark being ONLY for thelema, remember, he was originally in the hermetic order of the golden dawn (which isnt thelemic)

But you said those words were from Crowley and they clearly are not.
I'm afraid you've created too many holes in this argument and it can no longer hang together.
So, congratulations on trying to lie about what was said and not said by whom in your quote. The effort is noted.

What does being a member of those two orders have to do with him creating his own CM tradition with its own standards and methods?  

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Lance Kisgyr

Dori-Ryuu

see word recon(reconstructionist)

If the Druids were a religious order and had known source texts, sure.
However, they weren't (especially not as ADF claims to be), and there aren't.

And even if they were a religious order, the Celts have a closed culture.

Some valid reconstructions:

Hellenic
Kemetic
Norse

Why? They have source texts and were ACTUALLY religions at one point in time.

ok, well pick up the books i listed, or download them whichever, read them, then let me know what you think =)  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Dori-Ryuu

TeaDidikai

Dori-Ryuu

Meaning, I practice draconic magick in deep ritual.

Then why haven't you been reduced to coke upon the floor?

neutral? seems pretty aggressive to me

I'm really not seeing it.
Have you truly never been insulted before?  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Dori-Ryuu

Lance Kisgyr

Dori-Ryuu

see word recon(reconstructionist)

If the Druids were a religious order and had known source texts, sure.
However, they weren't (especially not as ADF claims to be), and there aren't.

And even if they were a religious order, the Celts have a closed culture.

Some valid reconstructions:

Hellenic
Kemetic
Norse

Why? They have source texts and were ACTUALLY religions at one point in time.

ok, well pick up the books i listed, or download them whichever, read them, then let me know what you think =)

But the books you listed aren't source texts. They are at best, secondary or tertiary texts.
Are you familiar with what a source text is?  

[Molly Mollusca]

Dori-Ryuu

see word recon(reconstructionist)

Wow, you mean there was actually anything left over from the druids to reconstruct anything? xd Especially when they didn't write down anything...

Tell me, how did a caste of lawyers, architects, and beaureaucrats became to mean a form of modern spirituality or religion that generally promotes harmony and worship of nature, and respect for all beings, including the environment?  

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if you read the post i said if you have questions ill answer them the best i can. That doesnt by any means say i am going to spill out every detail of my practice. I like to discuss pagan belief with difference people of different paths, its interesting. Nothing more, nothing less.



lmao, i was being sarcastic.



the exact quote by crowley

to distinguish the science of the magi from its counterfeits(which btw is what i said in the begining of this little thread here)

the book then states

Since Crowley's time it has been used by numerous magicians, writers and groups some with connections to Crowley's magical and religious system of thelema, some without.

Now how did i lie?  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Dori-Ryuu

if you read the post i said if you have questions ill answer them the best i can. That doesnt by any means say i am going to spill out every detail of my practice. I like to discuss pagan belief with difference people of different paths, its interesting. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fair enough...but then I'm left wondering how much exactly of your family tradition would be a) applicable to others and b)available to be known by them. Family traditions are usually kept under wraps.

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lmao, i was being sarcastic.

Ah! More being ironic!
I'll have to call off work tomorrow; I'll have irony poisoning at this rate.

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the exact quote by crowley

to distinguish the science of the magi from its counterfeits(which btw is what i said in the begining of this little thread here)

But you just said that was your own paraphrase neutral

your own words from your own post on page 4

I was short handing it because i was already typing and didnt feel like opening a new browser to re-quote what i had already said.

And if that is what Crowley actually said, my point still stands; how does one purport to use "magick" when it specifically refers to "the science of the magi from its counterfeits" Would it not be implied that if it is not Thelema, it is counterfeit and ergo not "magick"?

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the book then states

Since Crowley's time it has been used by numerous magicians, writers and groups some with connections to Crowley's magical and religious system of thelema, some without.

Now how did i lie?

Great. But, if you haven't noticed, Greer isn't Crowley. Greer doesn't get to give the OK to people nicking off and using "magick" freely to refer to non-Thelema practices. Greer might be making an observation that people use it outside of Thelema, but that isn't the same as saying "Sure everyone else is doing, feel free to do it too."

Perhaps you would be better if you held off arguing this point until you can do so without lying and crossing up your sources biggrin  

[Molly Mollusca]

Dori-Ryuu

It is a family tradition not to be confused with Neo-wiccan dragon summoning(what it is called here in southern california)

What is neo wiccan dragon summoning? And why is it so bad that is might be confused with what you do?

Dori-Ryuu

So if you are interested in learning, or just want to know what it is about, Feel free to post here and ask and ill do my best to answer. ^.=.^

You lied here... You did not do your best to answer questions. You straight went into the "oh woe is me, I'm persecuted" mode. And the "I'm being questioned! Oh no, you must be children! Or Christians!"thing? What is that?

If you were truly secure about your religion and practice, these sort of questions would not be a problem for you. You would not have felt attacked by them. 3nodding  

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Violet Song jat Shariff

Dori-Ryuu

Lance Kisgyr

Dori-Ryuu

see word recon(reconstructionist)

If the Druids were a religious order and had known source texts, sure.
However, they weren't (especially not as ADF claims to be), and there aren't.

And even if they were a religious order, the Celts have a closed culture.

Some valid reconstructions:

Hellenic
Kemetic
Norse

Why? They have source texts and were ACTUALLY religions at one point in time.

ok, well pick up the books i listed, or download them whichever, read them, then let me know what you think =)

But the books you listed aren't source texts. They are at best, secondary or tertiary texts.
Are you familiar with what a source text is?

LOL those are college books used in collegiate courses in celtic and indo-european studies. The courses focus on using religious lore, linguistics, historical archeology, and known knowledge of the culture to piece together the cultural practices. The books do touch on the fact that the Druid's verbally passed down information (much like a family passed on tradtion, btw) but they also get into using information recorded from visiting cultures and studies of landmarks, pottery, etc to make scientific notations on how things where. They do note that the recorded information isn't totally accurate.

The notion that Rhiannon is widely accepted as fact that she's a goddess of horses, but it isn't written down in a Druid book. It's been passed down through the ages, noted by other cultures and found on archeological pieces. Or that Bel is a fire/solar deity, again isn't in a book written down by the druid's, but accepted as a passed down fact.

This isnt just specific to the european cultures, we see that in Myan and Aztec cultures as well. We don't have more than what they left behind to see what the religion and culture really was.  

[CuAnnan]

I had another rather large, long post attempting to reason with this person.
But I will trust to you, the reader, to recognise him for what he is and to, likewise, refrain from engaging with him without first raising heavy shields and stripping every ounce of emotion from your post.
Whether a troll or a parasite, don't feed him.  

[CuAnnan]

Dori-Ryuu

A brief history of the druids
peter berresford ellis

ADF's practices do not mesh up to those described by PBE

Dori-Ryuu

comparative mythology
jaan puhvel

Unless you are going to cite the book and show the "Celtic" traditions employed by ADF, this is, at best, a red herring.